The War has Begun! - Are You Ready to Rumble?

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Who should Buffy be with?

Angel or Spike?
(Riley just didn't make the cut.)​

Now, BEFORE you think,

"My God, what is Becky thinking in creating this ticking bomb of a thread?",

I'd like to explain myself. Today, as I was trudging through my ultra-boring research on the Middle Ages, I got to thinking about how we always end up engaging in 'shipping wars in threads that aren't meant for it, and how we always end up straying far, far off-topic with our infinite digressions on who we all individually feel our Slayer "belongs" with.

So, in the spirit of my devious mood today, I thought I'd make an actual "Shipping Wars" thread just for that very purpose- so here it is!

The purpose of this thread is to see, once and for all, which pairing is better - Bangel or Spuffy! Let's show everyone on here we can have a intelligent, civilized shipping war. 🙂

Let the "Official" Shipping War begin!​

Note:
I was thinking if would be fun to give the "Best Debater/Defender of Their Preferred Ship" a button for their sig. If anyone is interested in donating their talents for this, I'd appreciate it 🙂 (PM me and we will talk about it.)

THIS IS YOUR CHANCE to say what you've always wanted to say about the two you 'ship without fear of going off-topic! Go Wild!

PLEASE READ THE BELOW DISCLAIMER BEFORE POSTING:

(Disclaimer: This is all in good fun, obviously. Please, when arguing, be polite and courteous to your fellow board members.)

 

[Spike Angelus]

I'm in the Spuffy camp.
While I do like Angel, it's obvious that he could never love her without a soul, while Spike could, even though his being in love with her most likely came from the original emotion of wanting to kill her, but it proved, at lest to me, that if Spike could love without a soul, that he would never really hurt her.

Besides, if it wasn't for Spike in season 2, we'd all be in Hell now.

 

[Megalita]

Hmmm. I don't really want to participate in a "war," but I can state my reasons as to why I prefer Spuffy to Bangel:

1. I love rivalries turned romances; something about it is so sexy. Very raw and rough. In the midst of the earlier fights between Buffy and Spike, I inferred some serious sexual tension between the two... but in my mind, the pairing was just a fleeting thought and would never be canon (oh how I was wrong!)

2. Both of the characters' growth and transformation in relation to each other. It just seems very real to me, very natural. I was astounded at how well their relationship grew without seeming too rushed or unrealistic. Buffy confides in Spike to just feel, but Spike is interested in something more. She realizes that he isn't that bad of a person and begins to empathize with him. At first she's ashamed. But In S7, she sticks up for him while the Scoobies don't really even want him around to help fight. It is just so amazing. I think their relationship dynamic is very complex and super interesting, starting from outright hatred to something else.

3. I love Spuffy sex. Again, very raw and rough. I loved the scene where Buffy was invisible and Spike was just doin' her while Xander was in the room.

I have more reasons. I will think of them later. : D

 

[Emzzie]

Spike.

Point 1. For Spike: He sacrificed his evil vampireness ways for her. He loved her so much that he went off and battled his way into something that he would of never wanted if not for her. He got a soul for her because he loved her and wanted to be a better man for her.
Against Angel: he's cursed. He did not even want a soul.

Point 2. For Spike: He loved her without a soul. That proves how strong his love must have been for her. To love someone without a soul is nearly impossible. Dru and Angelus never truly loved eachother. Dru did not love Spike. Yet somehow Spike's love for Buffy, even though she was human, let alone a slayer, was so strong he was able to overcome it.
Against Angel: Angelus totally hated Buffy's guts. Remember in "I only have eyes for you" when the ghosts made them kiss. The guy wanted to take a shower in disinfectant.

Point 3. For Spike: He saved the world. On his own accord. I don't think he did it only to save the world, but also to save Buffy because he loved her.
Against Angel: Buffy had to kill him to save the world. blah. he was not even saving her. 😛

Point 4. For Spike: Spike balling his eyes out at the end of season 5. Come on now, how obvious is it that he loved her so much?

Point 5. For Spike: He made Harmony dress up as her. He got a robot made that was her. Dont you tell me that was just to play sex games! Wesley loved Fred and Lilah dressed up as her and he had hayday with it.

Point 6. For Spike: They loved the sex. alot. And Spike did not go evil after it.
Against Angel: I think you all know.

Point 7. For Spike: his character grew in the series. The transformation that he went through rocked.
Against Angel: I saw no growth in him.

Also, Buffy loved him alot too. During season 6, before he got his soul, she used him. She treated him differently after she found out he got his soul back for her though. After he got his soul, you could tell Buffy was starting to love him. First, she didn't dust him even though there was strong evidence that he had killed and turned some people. Second, she risked herself to get him back from The First. Third, when Spike offered to leave Sunnydale, since it was unclear if he was still under The First's influence, Buffy told him she was not ready to let him leave. Fourth, she drew strength from him the night she got kicked from the house and he gave her the "you're the one" speech. Fifth, she chose him as her champion.

So in my opinion, its gotta be spike. I'm sure I'm missing some points, I'll think of them later 😉 Great thread Joan!

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Hmmm. I don't really want to participate in a "war," but I can state my reasons as to why I prefer Spuffy to Bangel:

1. I love rivalries turned romances; something about it is so sexy. Very raw and rough. In the midst of the earlier fights between Buffy and Spike, I inferred some serious sexual tension between the two... but in my mind, the pairing was just a fleeting thought and would never be canon (oh how I was wrong!)

2. Both of the characters' growth and transformation in relation to each other. It just seems very real to me, very natural. I was astounded at how well their relationship grew without seeming too rushed or unrealistic. Buffy confides in Spike to just feel, but Spike is interested in something more. She realizes that he isn't that bad of a person and begins to empathize with him. At first she's ashamed. But In S7, she sticks up for him while the Scoobies don't really even want him around to help fight. It is just so amazing. I think their relationship dynamic is very complex and super interesting, starting from outright hatred to something else.

3. I love Spuffy sex. Again, very raw and rough. I loved the scene where Buffy was invisible and Spike was just doin' her while Xander was in the room.

I have more reasons. I will think of them later. : D

I love everything you've said and totally agree.

 

[faeriegrrl27]

I'm a Spuffy girl. That does not mean I don't like Bangel, cuz I do. But it's like the fateful Seeing Red scene:

Spike: Trust is for old marrieds, Buffy. Great love is wild...and passionate and dangerous. It burns and consumes.
Buffy: Until there's nothing left. Love like that doesn't last.

I always found this bit a little contradictory. What part of the Bangel relationship wasn't passion? Sure it was as rough as Spuffy, but there wasn't much with the in depth talks, either. And in Lie to Me, doesn't Buffy tell Angel "I love you. I don't know if I trust you." And I don't think Buffy ever could. I mean, she trusted him not to kill people when he got his soul and all, but look at the difference between how she interacts with him in Season 3 and how she interacts with Spike in Season 7. I think she trusts Spike whole-heartedly. And that's why they can love in Season 7. I don't think she could ever really through and through trust Angel... the passion burned up their relationship. But Spuffy became so much more than that. They were so close. Buffy wasn't ready to loose him, but he was ready to be lost if that's what she wanted (post-soul of course). As has already been said, too, Spike got a soul for Buffy- Angel moaned about his.

I don't know if this made too much sense. My thoughts are kinda garbled, so they're not linking well, but I hope I got my point across.

 

[frankie]

Angel.
I think him and Buffy were very much in love but just needed time apart to grow. I don't think season 1-3 Angel was a good fit for her, he was far to self involved and woe is me. He loved her but didn't know how to express it. I think he grew greatly in his own show and they would make a fine couple now.
I think in season 7 Spike loved Buffy. I don't think he did before that. I think his feelings were pretty much, he wanted her dead. Then he got the chip, and couldn't act on this. Then came obsession and pretty much an ambition to have sex with the slayer. I think this then led to a devotion to the slayer but I would not call it love - he tried to rape her. And I know people say he got a soul for her but I never seen it as a heroic act. He wanted to prove a point, get a soul and show her that he was right. that he did love her - yikes! That's not an act of love, that's him making himself feel better about messing up royally and rubbing it in her face. If he really loved her - well he wouldn't have tried to rape her and the soul could wait.
Thankfully the soul did allow hm to show that love but I still pick Angel.

 

[Megalita]

Point 2. For Spike: He loved her without a soul. That proves how strong his love must have been for her. To love someone without a soul is nearly impossible. Dru and Angelus never truly loved eachother. Dru did not love Spike. Yet somehow Spike's love for Buffy, even though she was human, let alone a slayer, was so strong he was able to overcome it.
Against Angel: Angelus totally hated Buffy's guts. Remember in "I only have eyes for you" when the ghosts made them kiss. The guy wanted to take a shower in disinfectant.

Great point. So true! It seems to be a pretty big feat to be in love without a soul -- Angelus did not love Darla, Spike did not love Dru, even though they were together for a long time. Spike was able to fall in love with Buffy without a soul and without even spending hundreds of years together.

 

[Washburne]

I really should stay out of this since I'm a Cangel. 😉 For a long time I was undecided. And Cangel and Spuffy would work in theory while Cangel and Bangel obviously wouldn't. But if we only look at Bangel and Spuffy it's Bangel for me.

The first thing that strikes me is that most people seem to only see the first 3 seasons when they think of Bangel. Seems logical of course since that's when they were together. But look how it was in later seasons. How their relationship grew. Bangel season 7 or beyond hadn't been the same as Bangel season 1-3.

Spike willingly getting a soul is a huge thing of course. That can't be denied. But I don't think he'd ever got that far if it wasn't for the chip. So as Angel he needed some help along the way. He did have feelings for her long before he got the soul yes. But loving someone while being soulless isn't unheard of in the verse. So nothing that's so special for Spike even if it isn't something that happens all the time.

It also seems to me that this discussion most often is about who deserves Buffy the most. What they've done or not done to "prove" their love. But a relationship is about two people not just one. So why not include Buffy in the whole thing. She might have loved Spike but I'm not so convinced it was love love so to speak. First it was sex and then she grew to like and trust him. But when it comes to really loving someone I get the feeling that Angel is her man (out of these two). I'm not doubting that Angel and Spike loved Buffy so in the end it comes down to Buffy's feelings. Which often seems overlooked.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

You know it's Bangel 😀

When I first started watching Buffy I was a kid. When Bangel romance started I was 8 years old, what did I know about love? And yet, I cried when she killed him, because I knew she lost something she loves, and that he's not coming back. But he did. And then I cried again when he left. And then when I came in I-know-what-love-is years I loved when she was with Riley. He was so cute, and they were so cute together. But even then when I was on the Riley team, I didn't like Spuffy. And I think I'll never understand that. Season 6 for me was such a disapoitment. I mean, some of the greatest episodes are there, but Buffy there was so far from understanding. And season 7, well I like it, but I can't say I love it. And then I was reading this magazine and I saw this article about Buffy, and I was thinking, I should watch it again. After first 3 seasons, I just stopped and asked myself "What was I thinking before?". And then I've watched first 3 season like a thousand times. And I'm a Bangel fan, and I'm proud of it 🙂
They are meant to be. Soulmates. When I see them they're all I ever wanted. When they are together on screen there is so much love, and it's beautiful because we can feel it. But in the same time it's painful, and because of that it's realistic. It's not like all butterfies, we have spiders also. And when he leaves, he doesn't bring his heart with him. His love is with Buffy. And her heart is with him. I guess I'm always going to be Angel's girl 🙂

 

[Tranquillity]

My vote is for Captain Peroxide - I'm tired, too tired to come up with any sparkling debate points like the ones above^. Surfice to say, I just love the development of Buffy and Spike's relationship from start to finish, how it went through ups and downs, good times and bad - he didn't idealise her, she didn't idealise him. They knew eachother for what they were and loved each other anyway. I just really dig that.

 

[Flannen]

Angel. No surprise there! I've explained my reasons for this plenty of times before so I'm not going to indulge again.

One thing that I thought of recently, (and I really don't intend to start a huge argument over this, and after this post I don't really intend to say much more on the subject) is that personally, given the fact that Spike has not gone out of his way (since being corporeal) to get in touch with Buffy, I see that as him not giving them a chance, so I don't feel to obliged to give them a chance either.

But even without that feeling, it'd still always be Angel 🙂

Also I must say I think it's unfair that Riley hasn't been involved. It seems that because so many people hate him they don't want him to be a part of it. I think he deserves to be. He sacrificed so much for Buffy and always showed how much he loved her, and usually much more selflessly than Angel or Spike. I don't think Buffy should be with him, I just don't see why he doesn't 'cut it' apart from being so disliked, poor guy.

 

[anyatara]

Spike.

Although there're episodes of Bangel I love, I'll never be a Bangel fan, I just can't be. I'm not even sure why I think Spike, everyone else has the great reasons and I just...Don't. In all honesty, I just thing they went better together than Buffy and Angel. Bangel was all about cute moments, and Spuffy just isn't; it's more complex than that, and they just fit together so well.

 

[Eleftheria]

first i wanna say that i haven't watched all Buffy seasons and i understand that compared to the rest of you i have less experience about Buffyverse(i have watched all Angel seasons though) and this is my opinion according to what i have watched so far and what i have read in wiki...

I am die-hard Bangeler...all the way...so i believe our dear Slayer belongs with Angel
I am more than certain that they shared a love that can't be repeated...it is eternal,real,passionate.I see it in their eyes,how they look at each other,every meeting of the two is very intense,every touch declares their love.When Buffy killed Angel she felt so depressed she abandoned Sunnydale and family/friends.It's not only in the first 3 seasons we see the declaration of their love...i have heard Buffy saying how much she loves Angel even after 3 or 4 years after he left Sunnydale.It was always Angel who belonged in her heart and everyone was compared to him.Angel sacrificed his humanity for Buffy,he had the strength to leave her because he wanted to offer her a real life(despite the fact that i am against this decision!).I really hope one day Willow will find a spell to make Angel's soul stay inside him no matter what so that he and Buffy can have a relationship the way it should be!

Spike is a character i admire for many reasons...but just thinking him and Buffy together doesn't feel right.Not just because i love BANGEL but because it doesn't feel right for either of the two...a "reationship" which started by violence and sex,and because Buffy used him and he didn't complain about it since he had feelings for her(i am saying feelings...that is passion,lust,sympathy...but this is not love definitely in my eyes)...but season 6 is very out of character for Buffy and i feel like she is being humiliated and she doesn't or can't complain about it due to her psychological situation.
I can't deny that because of everything Spike did for Buffy after all,Buffy loved Spike...but IMO this isn't and can't be compared to the love for Angel...it is not the soulmates love...it is the friendship and true understanding love.If Buffy hadn't died season 6 would be very different,and i don't think that Buffy would use Spike like that.

 

[Revolver]

Clearly she belongs with Parker, the one guy who's truly demonstrated he cares about her. Surprised no one else can see that.

 

[Misty]

Spike. I've been watching some Bangel episodes, and I'm still not convinced it was real love. Also, to me Bangel is over and both Buffy and Angel are just friends because they have realized they are in love with different people.

 

[Megalita]

but IMO this isn't and can't be compared to the love for Angel...

Even as a Spuffy fan, I can sort of agree with this in a sense. Angel was Buffy's first love, and in any person's life, their first love plays a major role; you will always remember them and they will hold a special place in your heart. In some cases, you might "always love" them. I don't discredit Buffy and Angel's feelings for each other, and I agree that their love can't be compared to Spike and Buffy's at all. I mean, it's very different! Almost completely different.

Buffy's love for both boys focuses on different things. With Spike, it's a comfort, knowing that he'll be there for her and that it isn't necessary to be all lovey. Instead, they are able to continue their normal status quo but understand the security. I think this is especially apparent in S7 when Buffy needs Spike around to help fight and, as seen in "Touched," to hold her.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

One thing that I thought of recently, (and I really don't intend to start a huge argument over this, and after this post I don't really intend to say much more on the subject) is that personally, given the fact that Spike has not gone out of his way (since being corporeal) to get in touch with Buffy, I see that as him not giving them a chance, so I don't feel to obliged to give them a chance either.

This is the thing, though. It is completely in character for Spike to get in touch with her. Initially, when he was brought back, it was the writers decision to keep him there because they needed him on AtS. It is not Spike's fault that the writers wrote him to act completely contrary to how he'd been previously developed as. Am I making any sense? In other words, it's not Spike's fault he hasn't "given them a chance." It's the stupid writer's faults for not including him in Season 8.

Rant aside, I do see your point. It is, technically, Spike's fault for not contacting Buffy and continuing his relationship with her. To be honest, I'm not up-to-date on what's going on in Spike's life right now, but I'm pretty sure that he's pretty busy saving people and the like. But I'm sure that Buffy would want him in her life again (despite what Giles thinks is "best for her").

EDIT: It looks like Spike and Angel are tied!!! Keep voting, guys!

 

[Tranquillity]

Also, if you're going to argue against Spuffy on the grounds that they are not 'in touch' at the moment then surely the same could be said for Buffy and Angel?

 

[Flannen]

Also, if you're going to argue against Spuffy on the grounds that they are not 'in touch' at the moment then surely the same could be said for Buffy and Angel?

Not really. It's very possible Buffy doesn't even know Spike is alive, which is a little different to Buffy and Angel not ringing each other and letting each other know where the other one is etc. At least Buffy knows she could phone Angel if she needed to, but Spike hasn't given her the chance to do that with him.

And maybe it is the writer's fault, in the sense that everything is the writer's fault, they make it happen or don't. But that doesn't really affect that the way I see it.