The Watcher's test

nightshade

nightshade

Your grandfather is a cat
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Black Thorn
What was the point of the Watcher's testing Buffy. Surely if she failed to kill the vampire she would have died. Then they wouldn't of had a Slayer, except this time they did Faith. Is this a way of keeping the Slayers young so that they don't get old enough to question the Council?

Also did Faith do the test too, or was she not 18 when she went rouge?
 
Maybe it's sort of a clearance. Wow, that sounds bad! But maybe they have the test to clear a Slayer that's not good enough, to make room for a better one. One that doesn't die, is "allowed" to stick around a little more. They don't care about a Slayer's life, she's working for them (or so they believed until Buffy made that speech in Check Point).

I don't think Faith was 18 yet at that time. She's younger than Buffy, and when Buffy was 18 and went through that test, Faith still wasn't 18.
 
M
Ms.Trick
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I actually think it goes a little farther then that, I think that the Watchers Council goes out of its way to make sure that no one Slayer lasts too long. The longer Buffy lives the more connected she becomes to the Slayer's power, and I think this makes the Council nervous, thus the test to try to weed out Slayers, or failing that would undermine the Slayers trust in her Watcher making her more vulnerable in the future. After all their ideal is that the Slayer's only real contact is their Watcher. And that is exactly what happens between Buffy and Giles, though they seem to get over it fairly quickly their relationship is never quite the same after this.
 
At this point, I don't think that the Cruciatum was anything than more than a test of the Slayer's innate skills. Being a Slayer isn't just about physical strength and flying head kicks; it's also about cunning and drive. I always saw it as a basic survival of the fittest; fight or flight, kind of deal.

I know that the Council are hardly the tenderest of groups but I think that trying to undermine relationships etc is a bit beyond them. They were controlling but I never thought them completely sadistic myself.

[MENTION=10352]Chosen Enemy[/MENTION] is Faith definitely younger than Buffy? I always thought it was the other way round myself, she always seemed older, but maybe she was just more streetwise? I'm going to scour the Internet now.
 
She does seem older. But I'm basing it on 1)Eliza is younger than SMG, 2)Faith calls Buffy "big sister".

I'm going to scour the Internet now
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Yes! Do it! And don't forget to share if you find the answer!
 
Chosen Enemy said:
She does seem older. But I'm basing it on 1)Eliza is younger than SMG, 2)Faith calls Buffy "big sister".
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Doesn't Buffy say that Faith is her "little sister" but then Faith says about her being dressed up in "big sister's clothes"
 
M
Ms.Trick
Yes I think it's more like that!
nightshade said:
Doesn't Buffy say that Faith is her "little sister" but then Faith says about her being dressed up in "big sister's clothes"
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She does, but I understood it as Buffy is the big sister who wears her (Faith's) clothes.

Also, Slayers usually don't get called older, they need to be teenagers, as far as I undertand it. And Faith is not only after Buffy, she's after Kendra, so it makes sense she'd be younger than Buffy, or else I don't think she'd be a slayer.
 
Well, the source of all things reliable 😛 suggests that Faith was born 14th December 1980. I looked into this further and it comes from a novel about her called Go Ask Malice: A Slayer's Diary written by Robert Joseph Levy. But I'm not entirely sure if that's canon or whatever. If this is correct then she's all of a month older than Buffy.

But I'm still hunting!

EDIT: Is there a set age for being called? I know Kennedy said that she was nearly out of the age to be called. Also, could Faith have been referring to Buffy being a slayer longer as opposed to 'big sister' being about her age?
 
Flannen said:
Well, the source of all things reliable 😛 suggests that Faith was born 14th December 1980. I looked into this further and it comes from a novel about her called Go Ask Malice: A Slayer's Diary written by Robert Joseph Levy. But I'm not entirely sure if that's canon or whatever. If this is correct then she's all of a month older than Buffy.

But I'm still hunting!

EDIT: Is there a set age for being called? I know Kennedy said that she was nearly out of the age to be called. Also, could Faith have been referring to Buffy being a slayer longer as opposed to 'big sister' being about her age?
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Was this the site you found: http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Faith_Lehane

I can honestly say there is no yes or no here, since there isn't an official answer. It can go both ways.

About the last part, very possible. But then again, she didn't get that test, even if she was Buffy's age (or a month older)
 
I don't know about a set age but Nikki Wood seemed older, especially since she had a child
 
Chosen Enemy said:
Was this the site you found: http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Faith_Lehane

I can honestly say there is no yes or no here, since there isn't an official answer. It can go both ways.

About the last part, very possible. But then again, she didn't get that test, even if she was Buffy's age (or a month older)
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It wasn't that exact page but it was the same wiki. I read elsewhere that it still hasn't been decided whether or not this Go Ask Malice is canon or not.

True about the test. Given the timeline of season three, Faith was very much in Sunnydale around the time of her 18th if we do go by that birth date. Maybe it was because she didn't have a watcher at the time?

What would have been cool was if her Cruciatum vamp was actually Kakistos!

nightshade agrees: not for Faith it wouldn't have been
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She'd have been fine! She survived didn't she? Which is what I mean by the way. That when Faith arrives in Sunnydale it is just after her 'test', the vamp was Kakistos and her watcher died because Faith didn't have the strength to defeat Kakistos and save him.

Anyway, I just realised we're no long on topic. Apologies, lets get back to talking about the test itself 🙂
 
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nightshade
nightshade
not for Faith it wouldn't have been
Chosen Enemy
Chosen Enemy
I know! Let's go ask Joss!
I agree with [MENTION=11401]ticonderouga[/MENTION] about the cruciamentum. Quentin himself said the test was for watchers as well, to make sure they weren't becoming too attached to their slayers. And because Giles loved Buffy, he was fired. The Council definitely had stake in the personal feelings of Buffy and Giles and since they knew Giles' loyalty no longer lied with the council, they let him go. The Council wants to have control of the slayers and the watchers assigned to them. I mean, look at what Faith did when she aligned herself with evil. I think the council wants to make sure the slayer is smart enough even without strength, but hey, if in the process they kill the slayer and a new one has to be called, a fresh one that might be so shell shocked she won't ask too many questions right away, then that's just a bonus.
 
ticonderouga said:
I actually think it goes a little farther then that, I think that the Watchers Council goes out of its way to make sure that no one Slayer lasts too long. The longer Buffy lives the more connected she becomes to the Slayer's power, and I think this makes the Council nervous, thus the test to try to weed out Slayers, or failing that would undermine the Slayers trust in her Watcher making her more vulnerable in the future. After all their ideal is that the Slayer's only real contact is their Watcher. And that is exactly what happens between Buffy and Giles, though they seem to get over it fairly quickly their relationship is never quite the same after this.
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It's it odd that they gave this test around a Slayer's 18th birthday? Why at 18?



Also, Slayers usually don't get called older, they need to be teenagers, as far as I undertand it.
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Why? Why is a teenaged Slayer more preferable than an older one?
 
LadyLavinia said:
It's it odd that they gave this test around a Slayer's 18th birthday? Why at 18?
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Well 18 is the age when a teen becomes an adult (in the US anyway) and I think it was a normal way for the council to test her abilities, now I don't believe their actions were honorable and what they did to her was seriously wrong.

Testing her at the age of 18 is normal to me because it's how they can make sure that she is staying focused and not worrying too much about "becoming an adult" at the age of 18, like most American teens do.

Why? Why is a teenaged Slayer more preferable than an older one?
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I would say a teenaged slayer is more preferable than an older one because a teenager usually doesn't have many serious ties that would hold them back like husbands, children, full time jobs, ect.

A teenager isn't married and isn't working full time and hopefully doesn't have any children so they won't have any issues taking on a full time slayer duty.
 
LadyLavinia said:
Why? Why is a teenaged Slayer more preferable than an older one?
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I always thought this is to do with the changes that all teenagers go through in their brain chemistry, neural networking and so on. It makes them more likely to adapt to the the extra changes inherant in becoming The Slayer. The older people get the more their established habits would get in the way of them becoming a good slayer.

Pure speculation on my part.
 
LadyLavinia said:
It's it odd that they gave this test around a Slayer's 18th birthday? Why at 18?
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Now this is pure speculation on my part, but the only reason I can think of is that is the age of majority in the US and Britain, when a teenage girl could reasonably live on her own, with little or no difficulties from the authorities. This would make even more sense to me if the watcher never tells the Slayer about the test. The thought that something could cause the Slayer to lose their powers, might very well make them feel more dependent on their watcher

Why? Why is a teenaged Slayer more preferable than an older one?
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Yeah this never really made much sense to me, no one except Kennedy ever mentioned this and she is not exactly a reliable source.
 
I would say a teenaged slayer is more preferable than an older one because a teenager usually doesn't have many serious ties that would hold them back like husbands, children, full time jobs, ect.

A teenager isn't married and isn't working full time and hopefully doesn't have any children so they won't have any issues taking on a full time slayer duty.
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How about . . . a teenager is more malleable than an adult? And in this patriarchy world, a female adolescent is easier to control (at least in the eyes of the Watcher's Council) than an adult - male or female. I suspect that is why those shamans created the First Slayer from a female adolescent, in the first place. And that is why the Watcher's Council had no qualms about continuing the spell.
 
K
kndizzle
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Taake
Taake
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LadyLavinia said:
How about . . . a teenager is more malleable than an adult? And in this patriarchy world, a female adolescent is easier to control (at least in the eyes of the Watcher's Council) than an adult - male or female. I suspect that is why those shamans created the First Slayer from a female adolescent, in the first place. And that is why the Watcher's Council had no qualms about continuing the spell.
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Makes sense.

I'm wondering what percent of slayers died during this test....I bet the number is pretty high.
 
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