The Wish!Verse - Accurate?

[Lyri]

I was thinking about Buffy Summers' and White Avenger's discussion in B's thread HERE and it got me thinking.

Is The Wish!Verse and accurate representation of what Sunnydale would have been like had Buffy never arrived there? Or is it nothing more than Anya's interpretation of what she thinks is would be like? Did she really find an alternate reality to drop Cordelia into, or did she create that world based on nothing more than what she could glean from Cordy?

 

[EVIL UU]

[MENTION=6332]Lyri[/MENTION]

Is The Wish!Verse and accurate representation of what Sunnydale would have been like had Buffy never arrived there?

No, not at all. Without Buffy Master would have been able to free himself in "The Harvest", uncork the portal, bring back the demons ( pure demons like Mayor after ascension, not the tainted human hybrids ) and destroy the world. Wish!Verse isn't that apocalyptic, white hats still fight, there's still the slayer and demons are still human-sized.

 

[Lyri]

[MENTION=6332]Lyri[/MENTION]


No, not at all. Without Buffy Master would have been able to free himself in "The Harvest", uncork the portal, bring back the demons ( pure demons like Mayor after ascension, not the tainted human hybrids ) and destroy the world. Wish!Verse isn't that apocalyptic, white hats still fight, there's still the slayer and demons are still human-sized.

Buffy's blood wasn't needed to free The Master in 'The Harvest'. The ritual in 'The Harvest' involved Luke becoming The Master's vessel and feeding on people which gave The Master enough strength to break through the bonds that were keeping him trapped in that sunken church.

Buffy being there in 'The Harvest' STOPPED that ritual by killing Luke, which in turn forced The Master to have to find another ritual to escape, this one involving Buffy's blood.

So, without Buffy being there in 'The Harvest', the Vessel ritual would have worked just fine and The Master would have escaped.

So, the question still stands...is Anya's version of Sunnydale accurate of what The Master would have done with the town after his escape?

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Yeah in The Harvest there's none of the Apocalyptic signs like there is in Prophecy Girl, so maybe the Master getting free through the ritual wouldn't have opened the Hellmouth.

I think the events are pretty accurate to what would have happened, if Willow was taken at the bronze they probably would have turned her too, and she would have turned Xander.

The one thing I'm not sure of is, I doubt vengeance demons would have the power to create alternate dimensions, it seems way beyond their power.
But the dimension is so specific, like Giles is still sent to Sunnydale to wait for Buffy, but she doesn't turn up, so it could be possible she created it.

 

[Tuppence]

I think it is accurate....but as one particular path of what could have happened if Buffy had never gone to Sunnydale. This was a version where everyone but Buffy were in Sunnydale. But something entirely different may have happened if Giles had never gone to Sunnydale, or had left immediately after realising Buffy wasn't there.
So I think what I'm saying is I saw it as a genuine alternate dimension but not the only no-buffy one out there.....Anya just threw her into this one.

 

[Lyri]

[MENTION=12186]Tuppence[/MENTION] That's a good point about the different dimensions. I wonder if it was the easiest one to find, or if she skipped over other versions - like one where Giles wasn't the Watcher waiting for her, or one where Angel wasn't there - to choose that one because it was the most horrific?

Now that I think about it, I wonder what happened to that dimension after Giles destroyed the necklace? Who was the next Slayer? Was Kendra too old by then so it automatically fell to Faith?

 

[white avenger]

This is one of those things that fit well into the multiverse concept, where every major event in history creates two or more alternate universes, each with its own different reality. Th wishverse was one alternative to Buffy not coming to Sunnydale, but not necessarily the only possibility.

---------- Post added at 09:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 PM ----------

The one thing I'm not sure of is, I doubt vengeance demons would have the power to create alternate dimensions, it seems way beyond their power.
.

True, but it might be within the power of a vengeance demon to travel between parallel universes or dimensions.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

This is one of those things that fit well into the multiverse concept, where every major event in history creates two or more alternate universes, each with its own different reality. Th wishverse was one alternative to Buffy not coming to Sunnydale, but not necessarily the only possibility.

---------- Post added at 09:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 PM ----------



True, but it might be within the power of a vengeance demon to travel between parallel universes or dimensions.

Yeah I'd definitely say they could travel between dimensions. It's just the creating a new world I'd question, especially since we've been given one cannon example of how a universe is created, and the Anyanka/D'Hoffryn visuals in my head of that are weird!!!

 

[white avenger]

Yeah I'd definitely say they could travel between dimensions. It's just the creating a new world I'd question, especially since we've been given one cannon example of how a universe is created, and the Anyanka/D'Hoffryn visuals in my head of that are weird!!!

But if you assume that the wishverse was an existing alternate dimension, Anyanka could have been able to transfer Cordelia there (maybe she locked the wishverse Cordelia up in a closet somewhere in order to keep the two from meeting) Take it to the extreme, and possibly she simply switched the two alternate Cordelias, modifying the wishverse one's memories to coincide with the Buffyverse one, and the Buffyverse Cordelia actually was killed in the wishverse, meaning that the one that we saw from then on, and who went onto Angel's show, was actually the one that Anyanka removed from the wishverse in the first place,

(That sounded a whole lot better, and much less complicated, before I tried to write it down)

 

[Lyri]

(That sounded a whole lot better, and much less complicated, before I tried to write it down)

I understood, lol.

But the thing about that theory is, when we flash back to the real world, it's to the moment when Cordelia is wishing Buffy never came to Sunnydale. If that was really Wish!Verse Cordy, then she wouldn't know who Buffy was.

The Wish!Verse also confused me because, if we're to assume that in 'The Harvest', Luke had Cordelia on the stage and was ready to drain her when Buffy crashed his party. If there was no Buffy to come to her rescue, then surely Cordy should have died that night?

 

[Step]

The thing I don't get is, if the Master did get out of the hellmouth, why didn't Giles alert the watchers council and have them send Buffy over right away? It seems so weird that a city so clearly overrun with Vampires wouldn't be dealt with somehow.

 

[YummySushiPJs]

Didn't Anya herself say "I had no idea this world would be so exciting". I think she either created a Sunnydale with no Buffy, and had no idea what it would be like, or just threw her into one of the infinate alternate realities already in existence.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

I actually changed my opinion on this, becasue she also says "this is the world we made"
Which kinda says to me that she doesn't have the power to create worlds she just has the power to grant wishes, and since a wish can be anything, her power is limitless. She wasn't aware of what the wish would do, she wasn't aware of how powerful she actually was.

Like how she can't wish against Xander in season 6, she has no powers of her own to use (beyond sensing vengeance and teleporting), but if someone wishes for something she can grant them anything. she's like a carrier for the most powerful power in the world, without access to it.