The Wolfram and Hart thread

AnthonyCordova

By suffering, learning
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Sineya
So according to some online sources, the Senior Partners were an ancient demon cabal. But aside from that, we know very little...or I should just speak for myself instead. Are they clarified in the comics at all? I'm starting the comics very soon (they're in the mail). Or, do some of you have theories on what more they might be or anything else a little more specific or revealing based on tacit things/clues you noticed in the shows and/or comics? I'm fascinated by them. I haven't gotten too interested in fan fic yet, but fan fiction on this topic...now that could be interesting. One of the many things I find interesting about them is how they have a presence in so many different worlds and dimensions. To the best of my knowledge anyway, no other entities in the Buffyverse (aside from the powers that be) are demonstrably ubiquitous as the wolf, ram and hart. Which also makes me conjecture a little about their overall status in the hierarchy of things, their relative importance.

Anyway, would anyone like to speculate on the topic? I also like the idea of a general thread on the senior partners where we can discuss anything we want, so in that spirit feel free to pose more questions and issues than I have for others to discuss.
 
This is good. I have always wondered who or what the senior partners were. I guess I always assumed that they were these supernatural beings that lurked over Wolfram and Hart and maybe had some connection to the powers that be. Or maybe like the evil version of the ptb. At the beginning of Angel s4, Lilah is said to have talked directly to one of the senior partners over Linwood head, then she kills him. I'm not sure how Lilah got in contact with the senior partners, but it got me thinking that maybe they were human. I have not been reading the Angel comics so I don't know if they are more explored there, but if not, then they should be.
 
We know that the W&H demons were really old because Illyria knows about them. Although I think she calls them kinda weak/pathetic pack in her day when she gets all misty-eyed and reminiscing.
So maybe their a few very minor great old ones who banded together for strength/protection and somehow didn't lose purchase of this reality like all the others.
They were weakened by the (further) loss of status but decided to be lay low and patient, and as time went on they saw the potential of some humans (and their rules) to be useful so they decided to utilise them.
 
The study was created by a group of demons called Wolf, Ram and Hart known on earth as Senior Partners. These demons were present at the dawn of humanity, and at the time of the Old Ones. According to what was said by Illyria were not very strong, a little more than a vampire, but fled to other dimensions after the expulsion of the Old Ones from the earth, have gained power, whose source is the home office, that is the evil residing in all living beings on earth. Without evil, the study could not exist.

Wolfram & Hart has offices in all major cities of the world, such as Los Angeles, London, Paris, Tokyo, Rome and in parallel dimensions as Pylea.
In After the Fall (IDW comics) the seat of Los Angeles is gone and few have maintained the memory, but another has sprung up in Nevada.
 
Another thing interesting about Wolfram and Hart is that they take a more indirect approach to accomplishing their ambitions. All the other major villains we see on Buffy and Angel (at least on the television shows) get more or less directly involved in their plans, or at least mean to.

We know that the W&H demons were really old because Illyria knows about them. Although I think she calls them kinda weak/pathetic pack in her day when she gets all misty-eyed and reminiscing.

These demons were present at the dawn of humanity, and at the time of the Old Ones. According to what was said by Illyria were not very strong, a little more than a vampire, but fled to other dimensions after the expulsion of the Old Ones from the earth, have gained power, whose source is the home office, that is the evil residing in all living beings on earth.

I bring up the difference in how the Wolfram and Hart indirectly approach accomplishing their ambitions versus the direct and involved approach of most of the other villains on the shows because this difference might be illustrative (in a small way maybe) of why Wolfram and Hart have been so successful, and why they have lasting power when so many others do not. And also to point out and say that power isn't everything. Glory was a goddess from a hell dimension, an extremely powerful being, even in corporeal form, but she was also rather stupid on some things, and had other handicaps like vanity, hubris, narcissism, and more. When I think about Glory, I see that her enormous power on her hell plane as a Goddess might possibly have been her downfall in the end, because when you possess enormous quantities of power you are never challenged to conceive of other ways to accomplish your goals, because the direct route (the direct application of force) is almost always sufficient to succeed. Until the day comes when you have to find a different and more subtle way to win. Extremely powerful beings have excessive power to fall back on, but on the other hand, they are unlikely to think of or embrace alternative and less direct/forceful solutions when those occasional situations arise. And on top of that, enormous power does not encourage that being to address any potentially fatal personal flaws. Consider Glory again: it seems very likely to me that her extreme vanity, hubris, narcissism and more were a result of having so much power for so long...and the fact that she was incapable of recognizing these flaws as part of her ultimate downfall was a result of being used to having so much power that her flaws didn't matter and were not an issue. Back in her hell dimension this all might have been fine, but in corporeal form on Earth, those flaws became handicaps contributing to her ultimate downfall.

So maybe in the long run it was much better for Wolfram and Hart to have started out rather weak demons. Weaker beings have to learn other methods to succeed. I imagine the very early forms of the wolf, ram and hart had a lot of intelligence, guile and patience as a matter of necessity, (which allowed them to survive beyond other less capable weaker demons of their time) and over the millennia they have not overplayed their hands, allowing them to develop their power gradually to the point that they are now possibly as powerful as some of the old ones might have been in the ancient days. But since they developed from humble starting points, they might be in the best position to succeed in the long run. Maybe?
 
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If I remember correctly, the Senior Partners left Earth at the end of the final "Spike" miniseries (which is recognized as canon) that IDW published prior to Dark Horse taking possession of the characters. Exactly what that did to the Wolfram & Hart law firm is unknown, since we haven't heard anything from them since then, but I suspect that they're still doing business as usual, just under different management.
 
janas
janas
Yes! the seat of Las Vegas is in the IDW "Spike" miniseries
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