The Xander/Dawn Thread

[vellavu]

I'll start this thread by a question: Xander said "Dawn has loved me her whole life" in "Turbulence". Therefore we know that Dawn's crush on Spike had to have stopped at some point and she resumed the Xander-liking herself. When exactly did that happen?

 

[sosa lola]

Probably middle S8? I really hate that Xander/Dawn was mostly written through Buffy's POV. It was more about giving Buffy more pain than about those two,

 

[vellavu]

Probably middle S8? I really hate that Xander/Dawn was mostly written through Buffy's POV. It was more about giving Buffy more pain than about those two,

No. I mean when did Dawn abandon her Spike crush and like Xander again? I guess it happened after "Crush" or "Tough Love". I'm not quite sure.

 

[Lyri]

I never thought that Dawn had any sort of major crush on Spike - especially not after she found out that Spike tried to rape her sister.

I always thought that Dawn's reaction to Spike was more along the lines of how the rest of us 'normal people' treat celebrities. We can admit that a celebrity is good looking, say that we have a crush on a certain famous person, but we know that it's not real. I think that's how it was for Dawn, she thought he was good looking, she was intrigued by him, but at the end of the day, she knew that Spike wasn't a good guy, she was aware that he was a vampire and someone who had done awful, terrible things.

And then there's the moment in S7, when she threatened to set Spike on fire if he hurt Buffy again. That's not something you say to someone you have feelings for. If her 'crush' on Spike hadn't vanished before then, I think the moment that Dawn found out about the AR made her feelings vanish.

As for when her feelings for Xander resurfaced, I think it was possibly during S8, when Xander was the one who was there for her when she was a giant, the one she felt comfortable with. Hell, she took a bath while he was right there! Alright, so his back was turned for most of the time, but she was still at ease enough with him that she was okay with him being there. I think that's one of the most important things in a relationship, that level of trust and comfort.

 

[thetopher]

When Xander rode Dawn at a gallop!
...when she was a centaur! Geez, people, get your minds out of the gutter. 😱😛

But yes, having Xander straddle her meant that Dawn's desire/attraction to him came back in full force. It also makes a lot of sense- two normal people surrounded by an army of superpowered women, a mega-flying wicca and general Buffy and they're an island of normal sanity in a weird intense magical 'thing'.
Added to that the fact that Xander listened to and empathised with Dawn and her body-altering troubles and- even if we did only see it all through Buffy's POV- it makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[sosa lola]

even if we did only see it all through Buffy's POV- it makes a lot of sense to me.

It makes sense, but it's completely unfair to the ship. We know when Xander and Cordelia's first kiss and how it happened, same with Xander/Anya, hell even Faith/Xander got more screen time than Xander/Dawn. I just can't bring myself to care or ship it because I don't know who made the first move, who initiated the first kiss, their thoughts on telling Buffy and the others, did they freak out about their feelings for each other since Xander used to babysit Dawn and the age difference?

 

[Blaze]

The age difference really isn't bit at all, it's what, 6 years? Most of my friends are dating guys 6 years older than them with no issue, the only reason it's weird is because we knew Dawn at 15/16 (but really, Xander dating Dawn, even at that age, is no worse than Angel dating Buffy at 15). As for the feeling part, I think Lyri is spot on, Dawn idolized Spike as the bad boy superstar, it was never gonna go anywhere, even she knew it wasn't real. And again, after the AR, any notion that Spike was cool went directly out the window. As for Dawn/Xander, I think the notion that there might be something deeper there started in s7. It wasn't romantic, but they each had a deep understanding of how the other felt. Xander/Dawn starting to develop at that point. I know, Xander was 22, Dawn was 17, but I think their relationship grew organically to a point where Xander no longer saw Dawn as the kid sister, but he saw her as a real, grown up, person. It wasn't about jumping into a relationship at that point, but I think the moment Xander stopped viewing Dawn as Buffy's sister, in s7, is the moment the idea of Dander became a reality.

 

[gite63]

I'll start this thread by a question: Xander said "Dawn has loved me her whole life" in "Turbulence". Therefore we know that Dawn's crush on Spike had to have stopped at some point and she resumed the Xander-liking herself. When exactly did that happen?

Did Dawn really had a crush on Spike? Buffy said she did, but I think she thought Spike was cool, that's all, and he really didn't treat her "like an alien", as she herself said to Buffy.

Dawn was the one who noticed that Spike was into Buffy, and it didn't bother her a bit - if she had a crush, she would be upset that Spike liked her sister and not her, and I don't see it when she tells Buffy the news in the cemetery. Remember Dawn's disappointment when she thought that she would have a night with Xander and Anya came along...

Dawn liked Spike very much, even more in S6, when they spent some time together (he babysitting her) - until the AR. But in the comics, when she was fading because of lack of magic, she felt safe again with him, reconnecting with that understanding they had had in the past.

I don't know when her teen crush on Xander faded, and when it, later, turned to love.

 

[sosa lola]

The age difference really isn't bit at all, it's what, 6 years?

I don't mind the age difference but it did bother a lot of fans and I personally would have liked to see anything being a factor in Xander/Dawn at those early days. Anything. Also, Xander as Dawn's babysitter since she was ten should make things a bit weird.

 

[thetopher]

It makes sense, but it's completely unfair to the ship.

Expecting any ship to be treated fairly in the comics is a waste of time imo- all of them get screwed over much more than Xander/Dawn.

hell even Faith/Xander got more screen time than Xander/Dawn.

I don't think that's entirely accurate since in retrospect I can see them growing closer since S7 'Potential' when Xander is the only who who 'sees' Dawn for how truly remarkable she is.
Also Dawn and Xander spend an awful lot of time in the comics. If you imagine each of their conversations as a 'scene' from an episode then they're the two people who are together the most in S8 (except maybe Buffy/Willow).

Dawn opens up to him and only him about truth about Kenny, they deal with her continuing transformation together, the castle explodes around them both and they flee for safety, they rally the magical woodland creratures together, then they grow closer later in Tibet.
I'm sure I'm missing some stuff but that's a lot of 'togetherness' especially for a comic (you've got to make some allownace for the medium imo).
Okay, so we don't get their inner most thoughts and feelings then but we're actually getting more of that now- 'cause *spoiler*

the writers are are pretty much giving Dander initial courtship a do-over with her emotional ret-con...

 

[Monkey Pants]

I think Dawn's crush never fully went away, and they always had a certain connection which deepened in season 7

 

[The Bronze]

I don't think anyone is weirded out by a 6 year age gap. People get the ick factor firstly because Xander used to like Buffy and secondly because he's known Dawn since she was 9/10 and he babysat her.

 

[sosa lola]

Expecting any ship to be treated fairly in the comics is a waste of time imo- all of them get screwed over much more than Xander/Dawn.

I understand that. My objection to Xander/Dawn is how it started. We know nothing about that - unlike Xander/Renee who flirted a bit before he asked her out on a date. Xander/Dawn happened out of the blue - yes, they were close friends, but nothing romantic was presented pre-the kiss witnessed by Buffy.

It's like finding out about Xander/Willow kissing when Cordelia and Oz did.