The Xander

[RomanticSoul]

Lol, that sets the bar pretty low

I don't know. I think setting the bar at 'guy doesn't deny a woman her agency' seems like the right place to me. At least Xander only did it once (BB&B) unlike the 'tie her up and torture her' type.

 

[Xanderectomy]

I wish there were more male characters with The Xander trope. A guy whose best friends are girls. A guy whose hero is a woman. A guy who elected a woman to be their leader after the death of his other female best friend leader. A guy who told another woman that she was extraordinary. A guy who is so proud his role is "the heart" in a group of powerful women - the heart is considered a passive role and not musculain. A guy who knows that when a woman says "No" she means "stop" and he stops - that scene with Willow and the headache. A guy who is so in love with a woman, but knows that it's wrong to take advantage of her when she's under a spell even when she's throwing herself at him. A guy who never used the fact that he saved the heroine's life a hundred of times to force her into dating him. A guy who resented himself for being a useless loser but never resented his female friends for having supernatural powers. A guy who is incredibly brave and fights alongside powerful characters without a superpower to aid him.

Xander Harris is a realistic story of a boy who tries desperately to fit into the toxic masculinity society and gender expectations demanded on boys like him (just like Buffy was in the beginning) but then grew into a man who accepted who he is and was contented with his role.

Yep, can we have more realistic male characters like that on TV and less hunky bad boys.

This is the reason why i love Xander he's easily one of the most realistic characters on tv. (amazing post btw.)

 

[CharlieGunn1]

A guy who is incredibly brave and fights alongside powerful characters without a superpower to aid him.

Hey... I'm like... right here.

 

[Anyanka Bunny Slayer]

First, I do apologize for using the term man hating feminist. That was an overreaction, and I hope you guys/girls realize I was not saying that about any of you!

Articles like these get me mad because I feel they seek out misogyny, and create misogyny where there isn't any. Xander IMO is one of the most picked on and accused of sexism guy in the Buffyverse and it's irritating.The PC culture has gotten so extreme that a joke can't even be said anymore without someone screaming sexism.

That's it really. I like Xander and I'm a woman and I have never in my life felt uncomfortable by anything he said onscreen and I have never felt offended. But that's just me. 🙂

No, its not just you. I feel exactly the same way. 🙂

And bonus points for using the term, "Man-hating feminist." (Actually, its one of my favourite descriptions to use, especially on Twitter haha)

 

[Ethan Reigns]

ITS A JOKE A PEOPLE A JOKE HES A COMEDIC CHARACTER HE MAKES JOKES GET OVER IT.

None of this is news to Buffy. Remember her reading his mind in "Earshot" the year before?

XANDER (V.O.)
What am I going to do? I think about
sex all the time. Sex. Help. Four times
five is thirty. Five times six is thirty-two...
Naked girls. Naked women. Naked Buffy.
Oh, stop me.

BUFFY
Xander, is that all you think about?

XANDER
Actually...? Bye.

What are we supposed to blame Xander for now? Thoughts that are not politically correct? Too late, she already knows them. All I could blame him for in "Earshot" is bad arithmetic. Has America become the foremost surveillance state in the world to the point where all manner of thoughts and jokes are taboo? Political correctness is leading the war against freedom and it is winning.

 

[Anyanka Bunny Slayer]

Has America become the foremost surveillance state in the world to the point where all manner of thoughts and jokes are taboo?

YES. And it annoys the shit out of me. The situation seems to have snuck up on us during the last few years...

 

[Skanky Vamp]

None of this is news to Buffy. Remember her reading his mind in "Earshot" the year before?

Again, to me that seems an example which proves the rule. His thoughts could have been naked Willow, naked Cordy... but the Xander always gravitates to and has sexual feelings for the lead female character.

 

[Last Watcher]

Ok, I agree about Cordy, but he seemed to regard Willow almost like a sister......So thinking about her naked might have been a bit disturbing for other reasons.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

he seemed to regard Willow almost like a sister......So thinking about her naked might have been a bit disturbing for other reasons.

She was snogging Willow earlier in the season!

 

[BuffyBot22]

Wallace completely and totally had a crush of Veronica Mars!
I mean, it was subtle but it was there dammit, especially in that first season. He got over it, so did Xander. It doesn't make them awful guys, or somehow entitled.

I think the whole Wallace had a crush on Veronica is subjective to the viewer. I never got anything more than a brother sister vibe from them. And even if he did have a crush on her, it was never explicitly stated, IIRC, let alone spent 3 seasons on him pining over her and being a complete ass to any male that wanted her attention, unlike it was with Xander and Buffy.
It makes sense that Xander would have a crush on Buffy, I just hate that they drug it out for 3 seasons and made him look pathetic in the process. He acted like a brat who didn't get his way so now he is going to make every male that is interested in Buffy uncomfortable. I just wish the crush had been eliminated after she turned down his offer to the school dance in s1.
It also would have been perfectly okay for him to not have a crush on Buffy and show that males and females can be just friends with neither one of them of having any sort of feelings for the other.
I just don't think you can compare VM and Wallace to Buffy and Xander. It wasn't anywhere close to the same since Wallace didn't spend multiple episodes and seasons pining for VM, making male interests uncomfortable, or sexualizing her.

Xander became a much better character post crush because during the crush, he was almost unbearable to watch.

 

[thetopher]

let alone spent 3 seasons on him pining over her and being a complete ass to any male that wanted her attention, unlike it was with Xander and Buffy.

Okay, fair point about VR- it is subjective but I still maintain that it CAN be seen. Hell if you buy the Veronica/Logan thing then the Wallace thing is believable at the very least.

Xander was a dick to two people who liked Buffy- Owen and Angel (and Ford I guess but he was evil).
He didn't have a problem with Scott Hope at all, so I would say that his hopeless crush lasted for 2 seasons, which is entirely reasonable. The first season was Xander getting up the nerve to actually ask Buffy out and get rejected and then the second was him kinda pining and then getting over Buffy.

I don't see any evidence in S3 of Xander still crushing on Buffy; he interacted romantically with Cordy, Willow, Faith and Anya. I'd say he got way over that crush.

 

[BuffyBot22]

Okay, fair point about VR- it is subjective but I still maintain that it CAN be seen. Hell if you buy the Veronica/Logan thing then the Wallace thing is believable at the very least.

Xander was a dick to two people who liked Buffy- Owen and Angel (and Ford I guess but he was evil).
He didn't have a problem with Scott Hope at all, so I would say that his hopeless crush lasted for 2 seasons, which is entirely reasonable. The first season was Xander getting up the nerve to actually ask Buffy out and get rejected and then the second was him kinda pining and then getting over Buffy.

I don't see any evidence in S3 of Xander still crushing on Buffy; he interacted romantically with Cordy, Willow, Faith and Anya. I'd say he got way over that crush.

Except that VM and Logan were actually in a relationship? Not sure what you mean by buying into them.

I still think Xander had some lingering feelings for Buffy in s3, because he extremely overreacted to Angel's return, at least in comparison to the other scoobies. They were all hurt about Jenny, but Xander lashed out even more than Giles did, which I think had to do more with Xander's jealousy of Angel than it actually had to do with Jenny.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

He didn't have a problem with Scott Hope at all

Considering he later came out as gay, perhaps Xander didn't see Scott Hope lasting long anyway?

 

[thetopher]

Except that VM and Logan were actually in a relationship? Not sure what you mean by buying into them.

Because when they suddenly kiss in late S1 you go 'oooh, right.' That makes sense because of subtext.', instead of going 'Huh?' (or at least I did anyway)

I dunno, same thing with Wallace having a small attraction to VM- I don't think it was reciprocal at all.

I still think Xander had some lingering feelings for Buffy in s3, because he extremely overreacted to Angel's return, at least in comparison to the other scoobies.

Bearing in mind Angelus got in Xander's face A LOT especially regarding Buffy the previous year. In 'BB&B' and then again in 'KBD' they faced off alone.

And also Xander has always been the 'feelings' guy. Giles has his Watcherly duty to consider which reigns in his emotional outbursts, and Willow is Miss compassion in the high school days (mostly) so she's just confused/conflicted about Angel because Buffy cares for him.

Basically Xander's reaction to Angel could be interpreted as being much more about Angel- who he dislikes- than about his feelings for Buffy. And there's no other evidence to back up his Buffy-crush, however there's plenty of S3 evidence that Xander just plain doesn't like Angel ('Enemies', 'Graduation Day pt 1/2', etc)

Considering he later came out as gay, perhaps Xander didn't see Scott Hope lasting long anyway?

Considering what happened with Larry I think Xander has pretty poor gay-dar.
...Or maybe it got better post-Larry. After all Xander picked up the Buffy-Faith subtext early on 'in the library getting all sweaty.'
Huh, so maybe Xander knew that Scott was gay before Scott?

 

[BuffyBot22]

Because when they suddenly kiss in late S1 you go 'oooh, right.' That makes sense because of subtext.', instead of going 'Huh?' (or at least I did anyway)

I dunno, same thing with Wallace having a small attraction to VM- I don't think it was reciprocal at all.



Bearing in mind Angelus got in Xander's face A LOT especially regarding Buffy the previous year. In 'BB&B' and then again in 'KBD' they faced off alone.

And also Xander has always been the 'feelings' guy. Giles has his Watcherly duty to consider which reigns in his emotional outbursts, and Willow is Miss compassion in the high school days (mostly) so she's just confused/conflicted about Angel because Buffy cares for him.

Basically Xander's reaction to Angel could be interpreted as being much more about Angel- who he dislikes- than about his feelings for Buffy. And there's no other evidence to back up his Buffy-crush, however there's plenty of S3 evidence that Xander just plain doesn't like Angel ('Enemies', 'Graduation Day pt 1/2', etc)

Gotcha! Yeah, if you didn't pick up on the L/V subtext, that kiss would have seemed really odd.

I still don't get anything other than a brother-sister vibe from Wallace and VM, but I'm sure he thought she was attractive. Kristen Bell's a pretty woman.

Yeah, but that was Angelus in Xander's face, not Angel. When Angel came back he was Angel. And Xander's dislike of Angel had a lot to do with his major crush on Buffy and he knew Angel was the only real contender, because Owen, Scott, and evil Ford didn't really have a chance and Xander knew that.
I think Xander's feelings for Buffy weren't as prominent in s3, but they were still there. And they had basically dissipated by s4, which is when he becomes a much better character.

 

[thrasherpix]

I'm watching Becoming P2 again and caught that Buffy makes a joke for Xander. After he does a quick hug of her as cops walk by, Buffy says (roughly), "So that was half protecting me, half copping a feel?"

The look on Xander's face (over Willow) is so sad. Not even he could make a joke or laugh.

 

[peaceofmind18]

He was joking. While there MAY have been a passive aggressive element to it, he was cracking jokes as he did through the episode, and as he does from seasons 1 to 7, often at his own expense as well as at the expense of others, but nearly always making fun of a dire situation or some other sort of gallows humor, as that's how he dealt with stress. Granted, there were other times he was a jerk (as they all were at one time or another, as Cordelia was to him in this episode), but saying that was his revenge fantasy is too much of a leap for me.

And I can't say it distanced me, as a viewer, from Buffy. Maybe white male viewers? That would surprise me, but I can see that, especially as Xander does seem to be into the scifi and comics that most who would get into Buffy when it first came out would probably be (though I thought it was actually more of Joss inserting himself in a non-Gary Stu way, just as self-depreciating as Xander is). At least for me (not a white heterosexual male), Buffy doesn't seem unfeeling toward Xander. Quite the opposite, though she doesn't see him "in that way." Just as Xander doesn't see Willow in that way, but it's obvious that Xander loves Willow, just not "in that way" (save for season 3 at the worst possible and WTF time).

That said, I do wish Joss could've been more subversive when it came to Buffy's romances rather than inserting the dark, brooding bad boy or dangerous male, which probably is Joss's view on what women want (to be fair, some women do like that, but many don't). Come to think of it, I vaguely recall JM sharing a story about how Joss was somehow jealous of him because now women would want him (JM) for having played Spike, but I can't recall the details of that (but such a view would show it influenced how he arranged Buffy's romances).

And after reading the above, I do find myself curious how fans would've reacted differently had Xander been cast as black, but otherwise exactly identical (personality, interests, his crush on Buffy, making out with Cordelia, being a demon magnet, etc)...I don't know if it would've made a big difference in how fans perceived and reacted to him (and Cordelia, etc), but it wouldn't surprise me if it did.
 
I'm currently watching Surprise right now...as Willow says, "What, only Xander gets to make dumb jokes?"

And I was reminded once again about how many mothers would NOT accept their boy "studying all night long" with a girl (when Xander calls his mom to say that's what he's going to be doing with Willow all night). She must've been drunk, as he knew she would be. 🙄😀

This so much

Thank you 🙂

I never found Angel's brooding attractive or appealing - I actually found it rather irritating lol

 

[peaceofmind18]

Wow. I think that article is a bunch of bullshit. Seriously...it's articles like these that make me understand why some people assume feminists are man hating bitches.

Xander IS a good friend, and he doesn't resent Buffy or her power. He also doesn't help out with the intention of trying to sleep with her. I find that extremely offensive and it's obvious this writer has not actually watched the show.
Willow was in love with Xander too, crushed on him for years...but no one is accusing her of being a creepy "nice girl".

And Xander didn't hate Angel for being dark and brooding and hottter than him. He was jealous that Buffy liked him yes, but he hated Angel because he was a vampire...a species that murdered his friend Jesse. People seem to forget that...that he killed his own childhood best friend when he became a vampire. That was one of his motivations for wanting to fight demons. He was made aware of the world that was going on around him and braced with that knowledge he couldn't NOT do something, even though he had no powers.

He eventually got over his crush and moved on, and also, he had no problem getting women. Willow, Cordelia, Anya...whenever he applied himself he was attractive to girls. Not to mention, in season1 he put aside his hurt and saved Buffy's life, which she threw in his face later and purposely tormented him...which I notice no one who writes these articles seem to mention. I am so sick of the biased hatred Xander gets. He's a little douchy in high school and no one gets over it, no matter how much good he does or what a great friend he is. Is he perfect? No.. he can be an ass, but no one on that show is an angelic being! Most have been evil at some point. And even though I myself am a Spike fan, I love how people will defend Spikes actions, whether it's attempted rape, stalking or assault to the death...but Xander is mean to a girl and oh no!!' He's a woman hating "nice guy". Please.

GraceK - I LOVE your posts always so much....

I agree Xander is not a character that fits into THE NICE GUY troupe - for one he's almost always open about how he's feeling ( warts and all ) not bottling it up and letting it fester like a NICE GUY is supposed to do... / Secondly he does not hold any bitterness or revenge fantasies in regardless to Buffy ( Cordelia maybe for a super short time in BBB before he realized that love spells are always a hella bad idea ) he learnt from that experience.

Did he act like a little jerk ass when he asked Buffy out in Prophecy girl - YUP - he's a human being it's not a crime for him to express how he feels - maybe if he was more confident and mature he could have done it better than he did here but he was a insecure 16 year old...

Like you said the Xander HATERS pretty much punish him for existing - for expressing normal human emotions like jealousy or anger / They also tend to cherry pick only his poorer character moments and then twist them to fit their argument - rather disappointing - as a good argument or character discourse is always interesting but not one that is obviously so shaped by personal bias - then it really becomes more a kin to character hate, and frankly often appears a little irrational...

Xander is my favorite BTVS character I make no secret of that but I look at him with and objective eye , he's super flawed I get that ,it's one of the reasons I found him so fascinating - I like that he can be sweet and funny at times , and then show that darker nature at other times.....

He was insecure, had anger issues and commitment issues sure - But he was also a brave, funny, loyal guy...

Every character ( hell every REAL person ) has both their good and bad qualities - their bad don't automatically make them a BAD person. But if that's how you roll then every character and every person should be held to that same standard - Not just the characters that one dislikes...

So yeah I too find the Xander HATE quite frustrating because MOST characters in BTVS are somewhat problematic - Only a couple escape that fact....

I for one think in some ways Spike presents as more of a NICE GUY ( even though he's a supposed villain : ) - don't get me wrong I like Spike - or rather liked early season Spike a lot / I always liked his perspective and humor and liked that even without a soul we could see some humanity simmering away in underneath his villain facade.

But his romantic fixations on Buffy ( on Cecily even ) in some fit more into the NICE GUY troupe than Xander ever did -

Yet he never gets called on it...

I think Xander gets burdened with the nice guy label because he was the BEST GUY FRIEND and if he did anything that was even remotely problematic - like his PG rejection reaction then he is instantly labeled a douche and NICE GUY -

I guess it would be better if he had no personality or emotions and just reacted like the perfect cardboard guy friend - though that would be super boring IMO.

Like I said don't get me wrong I realize that Xander does crappy things at times - his early season occasional insensitivity to Willows feelings, his lack of filters when he speaks, his occasionally harsh judgement of Buffy because he holds her on a pedistal, his inabiity to truly commit to both Cordy and Ayna ( but that says more about his own insecurities that it does about his partners ), his storming in emotionally at times without thinking it through first like he does with both Angel and Spike at times - But none of this out weighs his good points in my opinion.

I get a little frustrated at times because I truly think that as a character Xander had so much potential - but the writers often lacked interest it seems and used him quite often to move the plot forward whether it seemed in character or not - I think because of this factor Xander as a character often seemed to back pedal on Progress he had previously made..

But yeah just a long way of saying that I was very surprised to see fairly strong dislike towards the character in the fandom....