The Yorkshire Ripper: Should he be let out?

[Jill_Valentine]

It's weird to me when people say "Yes, he's insane" and then follow that with "So we should execute him..."

 

[Harm]

He deserves to be killed. If they don't kill him then he deserves to rot. There is nothing about this man that says he deserves freedom.

 

[Jill_Valentine]

It's not our job to decide who lives and who dies, any more than it was Peter Sutcliffe's.

 

[JCC]

He deserves to be killed. If they don't kill him then he deserves to rot. There is nothing about this man that says he deserves freedom.

An eye for an eye gives the whole world really shitty depth perception. Do you want be responsible for global shitty depth perception?

 

[Blondie Bear]

The only reason I'm remotely pro-death-penalty is that it really isn't fair for taxpayers to have to pay for people to eat, sleep, work out, and otherwise live in relative comfort when they've been sentenced to life because it's rather certain they're never going to be rehabilitated. I don't see it as a vengeance thing, I see it as a get-rid-of-the-dead-weight thing.

*shrug*

 

[JCC]

The only reason I'm remotely pro-death-penalty is that it really isn't fair for taxpayers to have to pay for people to eat, sleep, work out, and otherwise live in relative comfort when they've been sentenced to life because it's rather certain they're never going to be rehabilitated. I don't see it as a vengeance thing, I see it as a get-rid-of-the-dead-weight thing.

*shrug*

Doing bad things because of the compulsion of a mental illness that has gone untreated is naughty, and is deserving of death.

Establishing a state slaughterhouse on the basis that rehabilitation would drain the Cable Porn Fund you've got set up is a swell idea.

Jeez, people have weird priorities.

 

[Blondie Bear]

Um, who said anything about a Cable Porn Fund? I believe taxpayer money can be spent on better things (like fixing our roads and bridges, for example) than keeping people who will never be allowed beyond those four walls cozy and comfy. And I never said anything about mentally ill people, either. I'm talking about people in real prison, not mental institutions.

The tendency you have of taking an argument and running with it to its illogical extreme is very annoying, not cute, and bad debate form. Just saying.

 

[Jill_Valentine]

Um, who said anything about a Cable Porn Fund? I believe taxpayer money can be spent on better things (like fixing our roads and bridges, for example) than keeping people who will never be allowed beyond those four walls cozy and comfy. And I never said anything about mentally ill people, either. I'm talking about people in real prison, not mental institutions.

The tendency you have of taking an argument and running with it to its illogical extreme is very annoying, not cute, and bad debate form. Just saying.

Think about it though.

If somebody's mentally ill and commits some awful crimes - ie. will never be safe to rejoin society - then we can't execute them in good conscience, because they're not entirely responsible for their actions.

If, on the other hand, somebody's not mentally ill but has committed horrible crimes, then the possibility exists - no matter how remote - that they could be rehabilitated or come to the point where they feel remorse for what they've done. Joss Whedon made five seasons of a series around those ideas.

I don't think anybody should be given the right to decide who's worth keeping alive and who isn't. When that happens, when we come to the point of officially and legally disposing of inconvenient people, then I think we've done more to diminish the sanctity of life than any single serial killer ever could.

 

[JCC]

Cable Porn Fund is interchangeable with any useless venture that privileged people spend their money on, and then moan about having to spend their money on important things like life. Whether it's an extra TV channel, a packet of the new flavour of Fox's biscuits or Pacman 5D for your PlayStation 6, we all spend money on things that we don't really need. I don't think that murdering criminals because we can't be bothered shelling out for their food and shelter is fair when it probably comes to less than the total of our shopping trip for things that we could do without. Besides, the death penalty actually costs more, though I was hoping that you'd come to the life > capitalism conclusion rather than me having to argue the money side.

 

[Blondie Bear]

^^ One reason I used the term "remotely." I don't come solidly down on either side, but if I were completely pro-death-penalty, that would be why. My husband is a psychologist, and I've learned from him that yes, there are people who cannot be rehabilitated. Sociopaths, mostly.

But it's not up to me. Probably a good thing.

 

[JCC]

^^ One reason I used the term "remotely." I don't come solidly down on either side, but if I were completely pro-death-penalty, that would be why. My husband is a psychologist, and I've learned from him that yes, there are people who cannot be rehabilitated. Sociopaths, mostly.

But it's not up to me. Probably a good thing.

Sociopaths are often rehabilitated.

 

[Blondie Bear]

Okay, when you have a Master's degree in Psychology and have studied it as much as my husband and I have, come talk to me and we can discuss sociopathy and rehabilitation.

 

[JCC]

Okay, when you have a Master's degree in Psychology and have studied it as much as my husband and I have, come talk to me and we can discuss sociopathy and rehabilitation.

Wait, you're right, I'm wrong, I'm getting in a big muddle about the sociopathy thing. I'm going to sleep.: erm :

 

[Blondie Bear]

^ Night, night. Sleep good. 😉

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I have no issue with someone who commits murder, after a reasonable time in prison, being released, however I don't believe he has paid for his crime.
He killed 13 people.
I believe he should pay with at least 10 years of his life for each.
7 people have had some degree of trauma, even giving him 4 years a piece seems unfair from their POV, but I could live with that.

I think he has played the system well on the mental health stuff, and is continuously playing them now. When he was caught, he knew he would rot for this, if he was sentenced as a sane member of society (which after reading many case notes and other equally qualified sources, I believe he is - as do a large portion of people).

I have no issue with him rotting for this.

PLUS, he's gonna have a far better life in prison than outside, spending your life looking over your shoulder isn't a life - even with a change of address, face and country!

 

[Relic]

I have a weird take on this.

See, I don't believe prison is to rehab folks (short of mental illness, in which case they go to a mental hospital first anyway.) I see jail as a punishment. It's not a place to go to school and improve your chances of not neading a criminal life when you get out....that in a sesne is a reward.

It should be so awfull that a repeat offender would rather not be taken alive if it meant returning to jail. I'm not saying torture them or anything., but prison is punishment. It should be perkless, dull, giving one no freedom or any comradre/enjoyment. there should be no time off for good behavior, doing as you are suppose to should be expected.

In my opinion, the lock up is not there to solve the problem, (i.e. cure the criminal mind), but rather be a deturent against acting up in the first place, and woe be to you if you have gone through it.

Moving from jail to the topic of capitol punishment....I don't like the death penality,as it is against my religion. However, I do see it as an ultimate punishment of sorts, an effective deturrent for those of the hitman mentality...I think there are a great deal of self absorbed people out there who might try out that career choice if not for fear of that ultimate penality. I'd rather see them serve life in prison and have to work/labor as slaves to the system to basically pay for themselves (My tax money I'd be happy to use to keep up the prison and pay the gaurds, but I'd prefer the prisoner support themselves.) but I don't believe in reforming untill after they have served their sentence (let the parole officers and guidance coucelors help them then.)

For some people there is but one thing in life that means the most to them, themselves. We are just things put on earth to entertain them. You can put that kind of person in 'jail', but jail is hardly a stockaide anymore and they still have a populace to interact with and victimize. If however they fear loosing what they treasure above all else, their lives.

I don't know, maybe it will keep them in line.

There are always those that think they can get away with it though; it's just i disagree with those that say the penality does not curb crime. Fear is proven to have a controling nature on individuals.

Unfortunately, it can't have people afraid of it's bark without a bite, and despite your religious stance or lack there of, there has been innocent people bitten...so to speak.

 

[Harm]

I'm all for the death penalty. I think that whatever crime you commit on someone, your punishment should be that exact crime back, it only makes sense.

 

[Jill_Valentine]

I'm sorry, I don't see why anybody would want to see somebody else suffer, no matter what the excuse was. It's a continual source of alarm to me, the relish people describe the punishments they'd like to inflict. What does it matter? They're not important any more.

And actually, it's been proven that a high detection rate is a considerably more effective deterrent than a punitively geared justice system. When somebody commits a crime, they are far more concerned with the likelyhood of getting caught than the actual punishment that might follow. I'll source the figures if I need to, but there is little or no correlation between the Death Penalty and crime rates. It just doesn't work like that. In the US, 9 of the 10 states with the country's highest murder rates have the Death Penalty. Life, (and indeed, death) isn't quite so tidy.

The Death Penalty doesn't work as a deterrent, it's not cheaper, and it has a nasty habit of falling disproportionately on minorities, the economically deprived, and the mentally ill. It's just indefensible, to my mind, I don't know how any country in the 21st century can be okay with dishing it out. I know something like this is emotive, but the justice system has to transcend that. It has to be better than any one of us, and I cannot and will not ever support a government that would take it upon itself to dispose of it's own citizens.

 

[Washburne]

I'm all for the death penalty. I think that whatever crime you commit on someone, your punishment should be that exact crime back, it only makes sense.

Might sound like a good idea at first but how are you planning to punish someone that has robbed a bank? Take all their money away? Which of course might only hurt their family. They deserve to be "punished"? A child molester? Let someone molest them? You're sure they won't enjoy that? A drugdealer? Give them drugs? And the list goes on.

And you've been thinking of the possibility of someone being innocent?


I can understand the feelings for being pro death penalty but I for one isn't. Not gonna go into it now but might return if this gets to a discussion about that subject or a new thread is started.

As for the topic that the thread is about I feel that I know to little about the specific case but in general it isn´t hard to see why people would be worried. But I´m not as much against rehabilitation as some seem to be. Does it always work? No, but I´m willing to give it a try. Things isn't usually as black and white as people would like them to be.

 

[Harm]

Might sound like a good idea at first but how are you planning to punish someone that has robbed a bank? Take all their money away? Which of course might only hurt their family. They deserve to be "punished"? A child molester? Let someone molest them? You're sure they won't enjoy that? A drugdealer? Give them drugs? And the list goes on.

And you've been thinking of the possibility of someone being innocent?

I can understand the feelings for being pro death penalty but I for one isn't. Not gonna go into it now but might return if this gets to a discussion about that subject or a new thread is started.

Bank robber? Well duh, take them away from the money, not take the money from them. Only penny pinchers bank-rob anyway. Child Molesters, that can be an exception they can be like beaten really hard because that's what it probably feels like emotionally for a kid. Drug dealer like who cares if you deal drugs it helps the economy and it helps people be happier. If it's that bad then just jail for that one.

I was talking about like serious crimes not little things like this. (aside from the molesting.)
Alls I'm saying is, an eye for an eye always works and is way eaiser to figure out what to do.