Things have to change - Going Vegan!

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Spikesangel11

Waiting In The Wings
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Moderator's Note: Please be aware that the videos posted in this thread may be very disturbing to some members, so please use caution. - Buffy

peta2.com // Animal Liberation Project

A lot of vegetarians don't realize why they aren't going far enough, why it is important to go all the way and be vegan. I want to let you all know what some of the main reasons are for going vegan.

For the animals:
-Cows raised for milk and chickens raised for eggs are raised in the same conditions as animals raised for meat. Lifetimes of suffering.
-When milk/egg production declines, cows and chickens are killed.
-Chickens who don't lay enough eggs are deprived of food and water for up to 14 days to shock their bodies into laying more eggs.
-Male calves born into the dairy industry are of no use, so at a few hours of age, are taken from their mothers and sold into veal. They are confined to tiny, dark crates, then killed at several months of age. The veal industry would not exist without the dairy industry.
-Male chicks born into the egg industry are of no use, so they are buried alive, gassed, suffocated, or thrown into grinders while still alive.

For your health:
-It is a myth that humans need animal products to be healthy.
-It is a myth that vegans have difficulties getting enough protein, calcium, iron, etc. The only potential problem is B12 (which can be taken as a supplement, and is also an issue among omnis), though even that is rarely an issue. Everything else is readily available from vegan sources.
-Milk actually weakens bones. It has such a high protein concentration that the protein leaches calcium from the bones.
-80% of the protein found in milk is casein, which is the substance they derive from it to make glue. A tiny amount of casein produces a lot of mucus, which can cause asthma.
-The natural human diet is veganism. This is proven by our teeth, nails, intestine length, stomach acidity, and other things. Herbivores have pores, omnis do not. Herbivores can move their jaws from side to side, meat eaters can not, they're only able to move their mouth up and down in a crunching motion.
-Vegetarians live on average 6-10 years longer than meat eaters. Vegans live even longer.
-Milk and eggs cause the same diseases as meat, such as heart disease and cancer.
-Milk contains pus--this includes that which is certified "organic" by the USDA. It's quite literally composed of dead white blood cells, somatic cells (pus), protein (casein, whey), carbohydrates (lactose), and small amounts of other vitamins, which can be found more plentifully and easily in vegan foods (such as soy milk).

For the environment:
-Exactly the same as meat, seeing as it involves factory farming. Factory farms cause more pollution than all planes, trains, cars, trucks, and ships combined.

Over 140 billion innocent animals are murdered every year. Save lives. Go vegan. Do it for the animals. Do it for the environment. Do it for your health.
 
Tueuse de Vampires
Tueuse de Vampires
Very true words.
Nice. I hope people read this as informative. Read it slowly and actually think about what it means for a second. Don't judge. Just read. 🙂
 
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Spikesangel11
I try to be patient but people need to start opening their eyes to the severity of the situation we're in. animals don't deserve to die in their billions just because humanity wishes to remain ignorant.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ--faib7to&feature=player_embedded"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ--faib7to&feature=player_embedded[/ame]
 
P
Paramour
That is horrible. Why the hell are you posting this here? You can talk about veganism without posting horrific videos like this.
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BillyidolwannaB
Its frustrating people just dont seem to care enough! They'l just bury their head in the sand and not think about exactly where their food came from!
Okay, I don't have time to check everything right now you wrote, but just one quick note...


You do know that children have died because their parents forced veganism on them, right?
 
Okay, I don't have time to check everything right now you wrote, but just one quick note...


You do know that children have died because their parents forced veganism on them, right?

I'm not forcing veganism on anyone. It's your decision whether to take anything I've written on board or not. In regards to children dying because their parents forced "veganism" on them, you're wrong. It's not because they made them go vegan, it's because they did it wrong. The story I read was that they didn't even let their child drink its mother's own breast milk. Of course that's not going to be healthy for the child, but it has nothing to do with veganism. Sure the parents might have been vegans, but most of us aren't like that. ONE isolated case and everyone is anti-vegan for their children, which is stupid because veganism is the healthiest and most natural diet out there for humans.
 
That is horrible. Why the hell are you posting this here? You can talk about veganism without posting horrific videos like this.

If you don't like it then don't contribute to it or get pissy about how horrific it is, hypocrite. It's like me posting a video on rape for a group of rapists and then them complaining about how horrible what they're doing is. The whole "don't talk to me about this, you're ruining my meal" thing is getting old.
 
There's also the option of being picky about the meat, eggs and milk we eat and drink.

-Cows raised for milk and chickens raised for eggs are raised in the same conditions as animals raised for meat. Lifetimes of suffering.
-When milk/egg production declines, cows and chickens are killed.
-Chickens who don't lay enough eggs are deprived of food and water for up to 14 days to shock their bodies into laying more eggs.
-Male calves born into the dairy industry are of no use, so at a few hours of age, are taken from their mothers and sold into veal. They are confined to tiny, dark crates, then killed at several months of age. The veal industry would not exist without the dairy industry.
-Male chicks born into the egg industry are of no use, so they are buried alive, gassed, suffocated, or thrown into grinders while still alive.

The practices you sketch here are illegal in several countries, so this will not be trough for all BB'ers reading this thread.

For your health:
("¦)
-Milk actually weakens bones. It has such a high protein concentration that the protein leaches calcium from the bones.
Can you point me towards documentations of this?

-80% of the protein found in milk is casein, which is the substance they derive from it to make glue. A tiny amount of casein produces a lot of mucus, which can cause asthma.
Again: Documentation, please, that mucus causes astma
-Vegetarians live on average 6-10 years longer than meat eaters. Vegans live even longer.
Vegetarians and vegans generally have a far better focus on a healthy lifestyle than the average meat eater. A lousy vegan diet is not necessarily better (nutritionally) than a lousy diet with meat in it. I agree that it's ethically better to eat plants than to eat meat produced under circumstances where animal welfare is not given any priority, though.

-Milk and eggs cause the same diseases as meat, such as heart disease and cancer.
Is this caused by milk, eggs and meat as such, or due to excesses in the person's diet as a whole? What, exactly, in milk, eggs and meat does cause cancer?

For the environment:
-Exactly the same as meat, seeing as it involves factory farming. Factory farms cause more pollution than all planes, trains, cars, trucks, and ships combined.
Not all egg, milk and meat comes from factory farming.
 
There's also the option of being picky about the meat, eggs and milk we eat and drink.



The practices you sketch here are illegal in several countries, so this will not be trough for all BB'ers reading this thread.


Can you point me towards documentations of this?


Vegetarians and vegans generally have a far better focus on a healthy lifestyle than the average meat eater. A lousy vegan diet is not necessarily better (nutritionally) than a lousy diet with meat in it. I agree that it's ethically better to eat plants than to eat meat produced under circumstances where animal welfare is not given any priority, though.


Is this caused by milk, eggs and meat as such, or due to excesses in the person's diet as a whole? What, exactly, in milk, eggs and meat does cause cancer?


Not all egg, milk and meat comes from factory farming.

How is rearing animals for meat illegal in ANY countries? Animal welfare is the #1 reason to go vegan, most animals are treated horribly. Which countries are any of these practices illegal in?

For all your questions on milk:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYpafipJyDE&feature=PlayList&p=F1EFB62F960BB48C&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=10"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYpafipJyDE&feature=PlayList&p=F1EFB62F960BB48C&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=10[/ame]
 
Professor Walsh
Professor Walsh
I'll look at your video when I can listen to it as well.
-Cows raised for milk and chickens raised for eggs are raised in the same conditions as animals raised for meat. Lifetimes of suffering.

I think you have to spell out "suffering" for me. When I look at Norwegian milk or sheep farming, I do not see suffering everywhere I look. Bad farming causes suffering, yes, but animals living on good free range farming can have a life quality that is every bit as good as that of a sport animal. Are you against keeping animals for hobby uses as well?

-When milk/egg production declines, cows and chickens are killed.

Sorry, I should have taken this out when commenting on your first post. It is of course true that production animals that no longer produce are culled - or killed, that is.

-Chickens who don't lay enough eggs are deprived of food and water for up to 14 days to shock their bodies into laying more eggs.

This is not legal in Norway.

-Male calves born into the dairy industry are of no use, so at a few hours of age, are taken from their mothers and sold into veal. They are confined to tiny, dark crates, then killed at several months of age. The veal industry would not exist without the dairy industry.

Again, this is illegal in Norway.

-Male chicks born into the egg industry are of no use, so they are buried alive, gassed, suffocated, or thrown into grinders while still alive.

While I have little good to say of the chicken industry, burying or grinding live chickens is not legal in Norway.
 
S
Summerlilly
Do you live in the US? Agricultural corporations don't want you to know they treat animals terribly.
-Cows raised for milk and chickens raised for eggs are raised in the same conditions as animals raised for meat. Lifetimes of suffering.

I think you have to spell out "suffering" for me. When I look at Norwegian milk or sheep farming, I do not see suffering everywhere I look. Bad farming causes suffering, yes, but animals living on good free range farming can have a life quality that is every bit as good as that of a sport animal. Are you against keeping animals for hobby uses as well?

-When milk/egg production declines, cows and chickens are killed.

Sorry, I should have taken this out when commenting on your first post. It is of course true that production animals that no longer produce are culled - or killed, that is.

-Chickens who don't lay enough eggs are deprived of food and water for up to 14 days to shock their bodies into laying more eggs.

This is not legal in Norway.

-Male calves born into the dairy industry are of no use, so at a few hours of age, are taken from their mothers and sold into veal. They are confined to tiny, dark crates, then killed at several months of age. The veal industry would not exist without the dairy industry.

Again, this is illegal in Norway.

-Male chicks born into the egg industry are of no use, so they are buried alive, gassed, suffocated, or thrown into grinders while still alive.

While I have little good to say of the chicken industry, burying or grinding live chickens is not legal in Norway.

I thought you said the practices were illegal in several countries? I'm sorry to all the vegetarians here who live in Norway, then, they can completely ignore this thread.

Of course not all dairy cows and hens are raised intensively, which means not all suffer. But the vast majority are, so if you don't eat completely certified free-range, organic milk and eggs then you're almost definitely contributing to their suffering.
 
Professor Walsh
Professor Walsh
While Norway do haev a reasonably good animal welfare legislation, I'm not sufficiently arrogant to assume that we are the only country that does.
I thought you said the practices were illegal in several countries? I'm sorry to all the vegetarians here who live in Norway, then, they can completely ignore this thread.

I may be guilty of reading a little fast, but as you wrote: "I want to let you all know what some of the main reasons are for going vegan," I considered myself a part of all. I didn't catch that you wanted to speak to fellow vegetarians only (again).
 
Just want to post a reminder to post things civilly to one another.


For my view on the topic, while I agree that this does go on in some places saying it as if it's the norm is a load of crap, I've seen farms and it's no where near that bad.

Plus you say that we have the teeth for being herbivores, we also have the teeth for being carnivore, so thats a moot point.

While I understand some people want to go Vegan, it definitely wold be for me.
 
I haven't read much of what's been said but I'll throw my opinion in anyway. And I might read it later on.

Yes, things have to change. We as a spicies often treat animals in a horrible way. But we need to add that Norway isn't the only country not accepting certain behavior. Even if something being illegal doesn't mean that some people doesn't break the law. But I won't start listing countires or even say that the same goes for Sweden. Because I really don't know exactly how things are. I just know that it isn't (as) bad everywhere.

I eat meat. Sometimes more than likely from animals that has been treated horribly. Sometimes I feel guitly about it but most often not. My brain decides to ignore that fact. Even if it's a bad excuse it's money issues. But I try to be "good" when I can. If that makes me a bad person or at least vegans or vegetarians better than me so be it. You think it makes me heartless you're free to think so.

But it's not only the treatment of animals that need to change. Just look how we treat each other or the planet as a whole. With the way humans treat humans I wouldn't count on us to treat animals much better. But anything you can do to help is always a good thing.

I'm not looking down on vegans or want this to be seen as an attack. I admire you. At least for you eating habits. And you are a better person than me. In this perspective. There's more as one as I see it.
 
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Tasha
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InsaneMystic
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Summerlilly
How we treat each other has a lot to do with how we treat animals. To me it's not really a perspective exactly, more a choice. What is important to you?
I may be guilty of reading a little fast, but as you wrote: "I want to let you all know what some of the main reasons are for going vegan," I considered myself a part of all. I didn't catch that you wanted to speak to fellow vegetarians only (again).

I didn't mean it like that. I meant that any vegetarians from Norway can excuse this thread, I never said that anyone who eats meat should too.
 
I hate the thought of animal cruelty, but it's not really as simple, for me, as saying 'Right, I'm going vegan'. I rarely eat meat anymore (And as of new year I'm boycotting it altogether. The only reason I had to wait was my parents, but I think they understand now how awful it makes me feel), I'm allergic to seafood, I'm allergic to regular eggs...So, close enough, I suppose? The problem for me, with both veganism or vegetarianism for that matter, is what to eat without those things in the diet. I mean, I read things like this, and it really does make me stop and think, but...Like I said, it's not that easy. I'm very limited in what I eat, already, and cutting out any products vegans don't eat would leave me on a diet of...Well, nothing? I think this is a good post though, a lot of people probably don't agree or don't believe this kind of thing, but I do. I hate that people can do these things to animals - And as for what eating meat, etc, can do? The part I'm a little more hazy on, not sure if I believe it, but if it is true...Wow.
Also, the really weird things, a few minutes before I saw this topic and clicked into it, I just had an argument with my Mum about veganism. Weird.
 
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Summerlilly
It may not be easy for you but just like anything if you put effort into it you CAN do it.
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Spikesangel11
When I first went vegan my mum threw a hissy fit and didn't talk to me for months. It didn't matter though because animals are more important to me than anything, and no one should suffer just because I find something difficult.
I didn't mean it like that. I meant that any vegetarians from Norway can excuse this thread, I never said that anyone who eats meat should too.

But you do realise that there isn't just factory farming out there, do you? There are plenty of farms where animals live a happy, healthy life, be they for dairy products, eggs or meat.

And I'd like to add that a lot of the stuff you listed in your first post is illegal or about to become in Germany too. So no, it's not just Norway and I'm pretty sure miromurr only listed Norway because they knew them to be true.

I do eat meat. I like to eat meat. I've never eaten eggs or meat or drank milk that was produced in an animal farm in my whole life. I know exactly where most of my food comes from and how it is produced and have known from a very young age as my family used to own a butcher shop and a lot of my extended family does have farms. I know that the animals led a good life prior to that so I don't see any reason why I shouldn't eat meat. But you won't see me shoving a steak down a vegan's or vegetarian's throat since what they eat is their choice and theirs alone and I'd like to have that choice aswell without someone butting in that eating meat is wrong.
 
Flannen
Flannen
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Buffy Summers
Buffy Summers
Well said.
Bluebird
Bluebird
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Summerlilly
The United States absolutely treats animals the worst. If you actually know where your food comes from, good for you.
Professor Walsh
Professor Walsh
Very good post. And yes, I only mentioned Norway because this is the country I live in and got myself an degree in animal husbandry in.
I'm vegetarian and plan on staying that way, I can see why a person would go vegan but it's really not for me. We get our eggs from our next door neighbours were we can see the little chickens running about all day in 2 acres of field so I have no problem eating those eggs or free range shop bought eggs for that matter. We could buy meat from our neighbours as they have sheep,pigs and geese/ducks/chickens but my dad and brothers doesn't eat enough meat to warrant buying from them. I don't lecture them on whether they should become vegetarians or not since it's each persons own choice. Not all of what you've wrote is true, not every chicken or cow leads that kind of life. But for the animals that do live those kinds of awful lives it should be stopped and brought to people attention but saying to vegetarians you must go vegan isn't exactly the best way of doing it in my opinion.
 
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Summerlilly
Most animals produced in the US are treated horribly. We only have 1% from family farms here.
I'm not a vegan or vegetarian, I just couldn't do it. Meat just tastes so bloody... tasty. Although I can understand people who want to know more about where their meat comes from and knowing the animals aren't treated really badly. I don't want to come across as callous but I really don't think about it that much, and the videos aren't going to stop me eating meat. Like others have said, not all animals reared for meat are subjected to this kind of cruelty. But I buy my meat from the supermarket, I don't know anything about the animals I'm eating, except they taste nice. Anyways, it's just more convenient and cost-saving for me to buy cheap meat. Maybe I'm just being a pessimist but the world's a horrible place, it doesn't surprise me how much the animals suffer. Human beings are a selfish species, we take what we want.

I could really murder a steak right now. Get it? Murder a steak? I'll let myself out.
 
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Spikesangel11
I'm not going to pretend I respect you from what you just said. Billions of innocents are suffering and you're making a joke out of it. Continue eating your bloody steaks, but you're not a good person.
November
November
I must be going to hell, I laughed when I saw the chickens
Professor Walsh
Professor Walsh
Being in Scotland you can fairly easily get more ethical meat if you want to.
H
Hero
i'm just givin u some rep back cus its unfair for u to b called a horrible person cus u eat meat.
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BillyidolwannaB
Lol that last line was too funny :)
PETA have no moral compass, I wouldn't use them as an example of why anybody should turn to veganism.
 
S
Spikesangel11
PETA is far more moral than most of the posters in this thread.
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