Cordy_Chase
Tact is just not saying true stuff. I'll pass.
(Yup I totally played the title off of 'That Vision Thing'. I couldn't pass up the opportunity, that's one of my favorite episodes 😀)
I've been going through a transcript of s4e17: 'Inside Out' at BuffyWorld:
http://buffyworld.com/angel/transcripts/083_tran.html
This, of course, is when the gang figures out that Cordy is NOT Cordy and while let me make myself clear, I DO NOT trust Skip, the information that is revealed in this episode are suddenly standing out to me.
While keeping Skip prisoner in the lobby to make him spill, the gang puts some pieces together of their own including:
Angel: "Ah, it doesn't make sense. Cordy was made a higher being because she proved herself to the Powers by bearing their visions. This thing couldn't have—"
Wesley: "Unless it maneuvered her to inherit the visions in the first place."
The Powers That Be were always assumed, significant highlight right there, to be the transmitters of the visions which led me to two thought processes. Both explore Wesley's suggestion quoted above that Jasmine was responsible for Cordy inheriting the visions and Skip's deception in 'Birthday' from two different angles.
1.) If the Powers That Be are the transmitters of the visions then there is sufficient evidence to support that the above dialog was a subtle reveal that they are actually evil.
Earlier Angel reflects on the disregard The Powers have always had for human life.
"Last couple of times I've asked the Powers That Be for help they made it pretty damn clear they weren't in the business."
The first time Angel approached The Powers to plea for a life was Darla while she was still human and it's debatable that Darla deserved it, actually Wesley even argued team-undeserved. Think about this though, when Angel was cursed with the return of his soul somehow that destined him for redemption. Could Darla have been granted that as well? She was resurrected by an ambassador of Hell but as a human including a soul, not as a vampire. Hmm?
Maybe Dru interfered with Darla being destined for redemption as well. Somehow being cursed with a soul destined Angel for redemption, perhaps just the same, there is a reason Darla came back as a human (which includes a soul), not a vampire. It's something to think about.
I know The Powers refusing to spare a life in the case of both Darla and Cordy isn't necessarily evil but could be seen as a compliance with fate. Darla being risen from death went against nature, humans are not designed to withstand the visions. I agree.
"You think the Powers couldn't see this thing was masquerading as Cordy? What it was doing to us? They didn't stop it because they didn't want to get their hands dirty."
Or maybe they didn't stop it because they were behind it! Skip presented himself as a guide working for the Powers and it's well known that he manipulated Cordelia with false guidance to prepare her for Jasmine, but did we perhaps look at his deception backward? We assume he was misrepresenting himself but maybe he was actually misrepresenting The Powers, that they were the real Dr. Frankenstein building Cordy up to become Jasmine's vessel all along. "Her path is set", which is the response Angel got from the Conduit who supposedly speak for The Powers fits this.
In 'That Vision Thing' when Cordelia was receiving misleading visions from an earthbound source why did The powers not block them from her? If they are evil then they wouldn't have felt this a problem...or perhaps it was a test, a pre-Birthday test even, to see how much she could tolerate and how devoted she was. Even when she almost wanted to give up the visions as a result of this experience, that couldn't have been accomplished and they probably knew Angel would fix it, at ANY cost. So she didn't pass in the devotion dept. but she showed that she was a survivor. That was still significant.
The big flaw here, if The Powers are evil than who enlisted Angel as the Champion? Here's how I see it, the Powers still enlisted him but on their own agenda, the whole idea of the Champion was a ruse to get him to unknowingly lead Cordelia to her fate as the destroyer of the world. Or perhaps when he chose to take Doyle's advice, he enlisted himself.
One I can't explain away though is 'You're Welcome' where Cordy, once again THE REAL Cordy says that The Powers That Be let her return for that last visit because they owed her one.
2.) They've been assuming wrong the whole time, The Powers that Be were NOT the transmitters of the visions, Jasmine was.
This is another way to explain Skip's deception. In this case he just plain lied about working for The Powers, but may have actually been truthful about Cordy never being meant to inherit the visions. That was something I never bought but if it wasn't actually The Powers behind them then it makes sense.
At first glance it doesn't seem to make sense why an evil entity would choose to save so many lives and souls through giving Cordy the visions if it meant to destroy life but think about how Jasmine presented herself in her own form. Evil has been portrayed appearing as divine, saintly and that's exactly what Jasmine was when she first manifested, a saint. She preached utopia, a world where mankind knows no pain or suffering. Why couldn't the visions have been her first step in spreading that image?
This could actually also be applied to if The Powers were evil.
The Conduit fit nicely into this as well. In this scenario, they didn't really represent the powers but were another gimmick set up by Skip.
Again looking at 'That Vision Thing' if the visions weren't on The Powers' channel, I can make sense of them not knowing they were being hacked and on Jasmine's end they still could have been a test of her tolerance and devotion.
Both possible versions of the Conduit actually validate the dark vibe I've always gotten from them, the deep cold voices, the chanting about Angel knowing suffering while they throw him around like they were taunting him and their condescending demeanor (always addressing Angel as 'it').
Both possible versions of the Conduit could also explain why Lorne's informants cosmically sewed his mouth shut, for insurance in case he figured anything out or had any suspicions. Maybe he tried to request the information by reading and if they refused to sing that's a pretty good reason for him to think they might have something to hide.
What significance would the conduit have in whole Jasmine process in theory 2 one might ask? Well, maybe the real Powers would have saved Cordelia and removed the visions? You never know. They've granted Angel a special request before (IWRY) even if it was just to keep their champion. Cordelia was definitely a significant player in Angel's role as the champion and not just because of the visions but most significantly so because she kept him believing in himself as the champion. That's probably part of the reason they granted her that last visit in 'You're Welcome'.
The flaws don't eliminate possibilities. I mean we really learned so little about The Powers that Be and the various discussions of them like the ones in 'Inside Out' really make bold suggestions.
I've been going through a transcript of s4e17: 'Inside Out' at BuffyWorld:
http://buffyworld.com/angel/transcripts/083_tran.html
This, of course, is when the gang figures out that Cordy is NOT Cordy and while let me make myself clear, I DO NOT trust Skip, the information that is revealed in this episode are suddenly standing out to me.
While keeping Skip prisoner in the lobby to make him spill, the gang puts some pieces together of their own including:
Angel: "Ah, it doesn't make sense. Cordy was made a higher being because she proved herself to the Powers by bearing their visions. This thing couldn't have—"
Wesley: "Unless it maneuvered her to inherit the visions in the first place."
The Powers That Be were always assumed, significant highlight right there, to be the transmitters of the visions which led me to two thought processes. Both explore Wesley's suggestion quoted above that Jasmine was responsible for Cordy inheriting the visions and Skip's deception in 'Birthday' from two different angles.
1.) If the Powers That Be are the transmitters of the visions then there is sufficient evidence to support that the above dialog was a subtle reveal that they are actually evil.
Earlier Angel reflects on the disregard The Powers have always had for human life.
"Last couple of times I've asked the Powers That Be for help they made it pretty damn clear they weren't in the business."
The first time Angel approached The Powers to plea for a life was Darla while she was still human and it's debatable that Darla deserved it, actually Wesley even argued team-undeserved. Think about this though, when Angel was cursed with the return of his soul somehow that destined him for redemption. Could Darla have been granted that as well? She was resurrected by an ambassador of Hell but as a human including a soul, not as a vampire. Hmm?
Maybe Dru interfered with Darla being destined for redemption as well. Somehow being cursed with a soul destined Angel for redemption, perhaps just the same, there is a reason Darla came back as a human (which includes a soul), not a vampire. It's something to think about.
I know The Powers refusing to spare a life in the case of both Darla and Cordy isn't necessarily evil but could be seen as a compliance with fate. Darla being risen from death went against nature, humans are not designed to withstand the visions. I agree.
"You think the Powers couldn't see this thing was masquerading as Cordy? What it was doing to us? They didn't stop it because they didn't want to get their hands dirty."
Or maybe they didn't stop it because they were behind it! Skip presented himself as a guide working for the Powers and it's well known that he manipulated Cordelia with false guidance to prepare her for Jasmine, but did we perhaps look at his deception backward? We assume he was misrepresenting himself but maybe he was actually misrepresenting The Powers, that they were the real Dr. Frankenstein building Cordy up to become Jasmine's vessel all along. "Her path is set", which is the response Angel got from the Conduit who supposedly speak for The Powers fits this.
In 'That Vision Thing' when Cordelia was receiving misleading visions from an earthbound source why did The powers not block them from her? If they are evil then they wouldn't have felt this a problem...or perhaps it was a test, a pre-Birthday test even, to see how much she could tolerate and how devoted she was. Even when she almost wanted to give up the visions as a result of this experience, that couldn't have been accomplished and they probably knew Angel would fix it, at ANY cost. So she didn't pass in the devotion dept. but she showed that she was a survivor. That was still significant.
The big flaw here, if The Powers are evil than who enlisted Angel as the Champion? Here's how I see it, the Powers still enlisted him but on their own agenda, the whole idea of the Champion was a ruse to get him to unknowingly lead Cordelia to her fate as the destroyer of the world. Or perhaps when he chose to take Doyle's advice, he enlisted himself.
One I can't explain away though is 'You're Welcome' where Cordy, once again THE REAL Cordy says that The Powers That Be let her return for that last visit because they owed her one.
2.) They've been assuming wrong the whole time, The Powers that Be were NOT the transmitters of the visions, Jasmine was.
This is another way to explain Skip's deception. In this case he just plain lied about working for The Powers, but may have actually been truthful about Cordy never being meant to inherit the visions. That was something I never bought but if it wasn't actually The Powers behind them then it makes sense.
At first glance it doesn't seem to make sense why an evil entity would choose to save so many lives and souls through giving Cordy the visions if it meant to destroy life but think about how Jasmine presented herself in her own form. Evil has been portrayed appearing as divine, saintly and that's exactly what Jasmine was when she first manifested, a saint. She preached utopia, a world where mankind knows no pain or suffering. Why couldn't the visions have been her first step in spreading that image?
This could actually also be applied to if The Powers were evil.
The Conduit fit nicely into this as well. In this scenario, they didn't really represent the powers but were another gimmick set up by Skip.
Again looking at 'That Vision Thing' if the visions weren't on The Powers' channel, I can make sense of them not knowing they were being hacked and on Jasmine's end they still could have been a test of her tolerance and devotion.
Both possible versions of the Conduit actually validate the dark vibe I've always gotten from them, the deep cold voices, the chanting about Angel knowing suffering while they throw him around like they were taunting him and their condescending demeanor (always addressing Angel as 'it').
Both possible versions of the Conduit could also explain why Lorne's informants cosmically sewed his mouth shut, for insurance in case he figured anything out or had any suspicions. Maybe he tried to request the information by reading and if they refused to sing that's a pretty good reason for him to think they might have something to hide.
What significance would the conduit have in whole Jasmine process in theory 2 one might ask? Well, maybe the real Powers would have saved Cordelia and removed the visions? You never know. They've granted Angel a special request before (IWRY) even if it was just to keep their champion. Cordelia was definitely a significant player in Angel's role as the champion and not just because of the visions but most significantly so because she kept him believing in himself as the champion. That's probably part of the reason they granted her that last visit in 'You're Welcome'.
The flaws don't eliminate possibilities. I mean we really learned so little about The Powers that Be and the various discussions of them like the ones in 'Inside Out' really make bold suggestions.