"Those who can stand up, will stand up"

[Gum Gnome33]

Something I've been meaning to bring up for a while, because I think it really needs to be discussed/acknowledged, even if the characters themselves aren't going to do it!

In "Get it Done," Buffy comes to understand and witness firsthand what exactly was done to the first slayer, to start the slayer line. Effectively, she is raped by demons, gaining their strength. Undeniably, she finds this truth repulsive so much so that she refuses to accept the additional strength that the shadow men are willing to bestow upon her in an identical fashion.

At the end of the episode, she admits to Willow that she may have been wrong for refusing this power.

In "Chosen," she decides to "empower" every single potential girl in the world in an undeniably similar fashion to what was done by the shadow men. Obviously it was a less violent procedure and less blatantly undesirable in nature, but the result is the same: a girl is forced to have to spend the rest of her life fighting demons.

Throughout the series, Buffy herself laments over her calling. Over how she was given no choice. As she is making peace with it in season 7, she again refuses to go through the ancient ritual that would give her more of this power. But she doesn't hesitate to have Willow bestow all of this upon literally every single girl in existence who has the potential to become a slayer.

What do we think about this? What does it say about Buffy? Is it hypocritical? A necessary evil? Is she justified since admitting at the end of "Get it Done" that if she had the chance, she'd go back and seek out that power?

Do you support Buffy's strategy in "Chosen," or not?

 

[kittenpoker]

At the moment....I'm kinda flabbergasted.... by the question.....I need to give it more thought.

But it's a really good one!!!!!

 

[iShower4free]

One point that I think needs to be pointed out is that now that all of the potentials in the world have become Slayers the job of slaying becomes a lot less monumental. The potentials now have the power but they ultimately get to chose whether they want to spend the rest of their lives fighting demons and other evils. I think they also end the show like that to give us the feeling that now that there are a ton of slayers Buffy can have a chance to live a relatively normal life.

 

[tec]

what the person said above is right
No has to fight evil now that they are a Slayer Buffy empowered the girls to make up there own minds some knew that they might be called others had no idea it affect each girl diffrantly.

Would you like to have this cloud over you saying
Hey you might have to quit your life and fight evil or...
Hey your already able to fight evil its your choice if you want to or not.
Buffy took that stigma away

Dont want to be a Slayer fine dont pick up a stake..but if something attacks you or you see someone in danger...guess what you can help your call.

 

[Gum Gnome33]

While those are good points, I can't ignore the fact that if someone made me a slayer, regardless of what I wanted for my life, I would have a really hard time turning it down, knowing what I would know about the blatant and omnipresent existence of evil. Same thing happened to Willow, Xander, Cordy, Dawn, Giles, etc.
Sure some can turn it down. But there's no denying that they are forced into a very difficult place--the same place Buffy found herself in at age 15.

 

[iShower4free]

The difference with Buffy's situation was that she was the only Slayer on the planet. All of the responsibility was on her and her alone.

 

[Robb Stark]

I love "Chosen". I find it to be one of the single most inspiring episodes of the entire series. However, there are some pretty big...flaws in the matrix with it too. I mean, what you said is largely right. We've seen with Faith and Dana that whatever it is that decides who should be a Slayer isn't exactly a perfect system. Thrusting that kind of power on just anyone, thousands of just anyone, is pretty irresponsible.

One of the things I hated about "Damage" in Angel S5, and they never addressed it, was that the entire fault for everything Dana did, other than the guy who tortured her of course, laid with Buffy and Willow, really. They were the ones who granted her that power out of nowhere which she then went out and killed about a dozen people with. And yet, Angel's the bad guy? Anyways, kind of getting off track with that.

The other problem with what Buffy and Willow did was that they didn't really...need it to happen. I mean, this kind of gets glossed over, but Angel and Spike pretty much solved the problem of the uber-vamps. They didn't really need to turn all the Potentials into Slayers. I mean, the amulet that Angel brings over from Wolfram & Hart dusts all the uber-vamps and destroys the hellmouth. So...

I get the metaphor, and I like it a lot, and I know they needed a big final Willow moment, but practically, it was incredibly irresponsible. I mean, every death that Dana, and others like her (I'm sure she's not the only newly empowered Slayer who shouldn't have that power) causes finds fault with Buffy, Willow, Kennedy and everyone else who helped with that spell.

But I want to make it clear, I like "Chosen" a lot. There are holes in it, but I don't let that get in the way of my enjoying it and liking everything it was about.

 

[iShower4free]

No one knew what the amulet would do though, for all they knew it could just start glowing and guide their way through the cave lol. But what you both are saying makes a lot of sense. Luckily in the comic series they take responsibility and wrangle in the slayers across the globe.

 

[dexeded]

Sure some can turn it down. But there's no denying that they are forced into a very difficult place--the same place Buffy found herself in at age 15.

It's not the same place, because as others have already mentioned Slayers are no longer alone. They simply aren't forced to be the Slayer and have an early expiration.

While those are good points, I can't ignore the fact that if someone made me a slayer, regardless of what I wanted for my life, I would have a really hard time turning it down, knowing what I would know about the blatant and omnipresent existence of evil. Same thing happened to Willow, Xander, Cordy, Dawn, Giles, etc.

What that someone is doing is giving you a choice. It seems to me that you're advocating 'ignorance is bliss'. More power, more knowledge is always better than less or none. More choices can mean harder choices, but I still maintain that it is better. They are not replacing your original choices with a set of new ones; they are offering you more in addition to your original choices.

It's different from the rape undertones of the Shadow Men because (a) you have a choice, (b) what Buffy refused was even more of the demon essence, and (c) the spell itself seems to be very different from what the Shadow Men performed, most notably in the white magic vs evil black shadow magic. I can see how it would be problematic, though.

---------- Post added at 03:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:19 PM ----------

I love "Chosen". I find it to be one of the single most inspiring episodes of the entire series. However, there are some pretty big...flaws in the matrix with it too. I mean, what you said is largely right. We've seen with Faith and Dana that whatever it is that decides who should be a Slayer isn't exactly a perfect system. Thrusting that kind of power on just anyone, thousands of just anyone, is pretty irresponsible.

One of the things I hated about "Damage" in Angel S5, and they never addressed it, was that the entire fault for everything Dana did, other than the guy who tortured her of course, laid with Buffy and Willow, really. They were the ones who granted her that power out of nowhere which she then went out and killed about a dozen people with. And yet, Angel's the bad guy? Anyways, kind of getting off track with that.

The other problem with what Buffy and Willow did was that they didn't really...need it to happen. I mean, this kind of gets glossed over, but Angel and Spike pretty much solved the problem of the uber-vamps. They didn't really need to turn all the Potentials into Slayers. I mean, the amulet that Angel brings over from Wolfram & Hart dusts all the uber-vamps and destroys the hellmouth. So...

I get the metaphor, and I like it a lot, and I know they needed a big final Willow moment, but practically, it was incredibly irresponsible. I mean, every death that Dana, and others like her (I'm sure she's not the only newly empowered Slayer who shouldn't have that power) causes finds fault with Buffy, Willow, Kennedy and everyone else who helped with that spell.

But I want to make it clear, I like "Chosen" a lot. There are holes in it, but I don't let that get in the way of my enjoying it and liking everything it was about.

I pretty much agree with this, except:

One of the things I hated about "Damage" in Angel S5, and they never addressed it, was that the entire fault for everything Dana did, other than the guy who tortured her of course, laid with Buffy and Willow, really. They were the ones who granted her that power out of nowhere which she then went out and killed about a dozen people with. And yet, Angel's the bad guy? Anyways, kind of getting off track with that.

Passing Angel off as the bad guy didn't have anything to do with Dana. It had to do with him heading up the big evil law firm. Also, while Slayer strength and visions would be extremely debilitating to the already unstable, I think that the main problem with the Slayer spell would lie more among those like Faith (S3 dark Faith, that is) and Simone.

 

[sisterofmercy]

By empowering all the potentials it gives them an element of choice in the matter though. They don't have to go and fight demons if they don't want to, but they are more aware and stronger and able to fight should they need to.

It's not a perfect set up but it's not like Buffy had the time or option to ask every slayer across the world if they'd like to be activated.

 

[EVIL UU]

What does it say about Buffy? Is it hypocritical?

As far as I'm concerned, it says that she's nuts, after two deaths and years of constant stress she's truly lost it.

Buffy decides to turn thousands of human women and children ( baseball girl from "The Chosen" is what? 11? How is she supposed to deal with something like that? ) into, basically demons without their consent. That's not empowerment, that's blunt, forceful conscription with a smidgen of good, old brainwashing ( activation changes the personality of the potential ) And for what? To walk away and have a non-slayer life? She could have done just that in season 2 when Kendra arrived. Laugh Giles out of the library the second he started spewing garbage about duty, fist pump and walk away, zero ****s given. To defeat The First? 2003 Slayers were not necessary to do that and I can think of a few other ways of defeating it without even using the amulet, like you know, sunlight spells or a We need a big bomb here, pronto! call to Riley, I mean, Buffy cooperates with Army just fine in season 7, they would have helped.

So what's the point? Next thing we know, Buffy runs her own Nazi-like kid army in a war against everybody. Was power what she really wanted?
[MENTION=11500]drizzlydaze[/MENTION]

They simply aren't forced to be the Slayer and have an early expiration

Until Buffy's boyfriend's cohorts show up at their door to murder them.
[MENTION=10446]sisterofmercy[/MENTION]

It's not a perfect set up but it's not like Buffy had the time or option to ask every slayer across the world if they'd like to be activated.

That's a terrible excuse. Also, Willow didn't have to activate every potential ever, just those in Sunnydale who had wanted it.

 

[dexeded]

with a smidgen of good, old brainwashing ( activation changes the personality of the potential )

Huh?

And for what? To walk away and have a non-slayer life? She could have done just that in season 2 when Kendra arrived. Laugh Giles out of the library the second he started spewing garbage about duty, fist pump and walk away, zero ****s given.

Pre-S1 death, she had no choice. Post-Two Chosen Ones, yeah, she could've done that before Faith turned evil, so not much argument there. But it wasn't just 'to walk away and have a non-slayer life' (something she can never really have, though Buffy never seems to realise that)--it was to (a) defeat The First, and (b) empower girls. Buffy and gang and Potentials were carrying the idiot ball in S7 with regards to defeating The First, so the whole sunlight thing/army help genuinely didn't occur to them, and they honestly thought the Slayer thing would work, despite the odds. I admit (b) is problematic re: rape undertones and unstable Slayer problem, but the spell Willow performs seems to be significantly different from the Shadow Men. It uses white magic, that of the Scythe as opposed to demon essence, so it's heavily implied that they were gaining Slayer power from a much purer source than the dark twisty demon essence of the Shadow Men. Of course, thrusting power onto random girls all over the world is pretty bad, but I assume they thought almost all the Potentials were either killed or with them at that point in time.

To defeat The First? 2003 Slayers were not necessary to do that and I can think of a few other ways of defeating it without even using the amulet, like you know, sunlight spells or a We need a big bomb here, pronto! call to Riley, I mean, Buffy cooperates with Army just fine in season 7, they would have helped.

Agreed.

Until Buffy's boyfriend's cohorts show up at their door to murder them.

Twilight would have come to pass regardless; it was prophesied.

That's a terrible excuse. Also, Willow didn't have to activate every potential ever, just those in Sunnydale who had wanted it.

It's not like we know how the spell works, so it's probably only possible for her to empower all Potentials.

 

[GATEGOD]

Something I've been meaning to bring up for a while, because I think it really needs to be discussed/acknowledged, even if the characters themselves aren't going to do it!

In "Get it Done," Buffy comes to understand and witness firsthand what exactly was done to the first slayer, to start the slayer line. Effectively, she is raped by demons, gaining their strength. Undeniably, she finds this truth repulsive so much so that she refuses to accept the additional strength that the shadow men are willing to bestow upon her in an identical fashion.

At the end of the episode, she admits to Willow that she may have been wrong for refusing this power.

In "Chosen," she decides to "empower" every single potential girl in the world in an undeniably similar fashion to what was done by the shadow men. Obviously it was a less violent procedure and less blatantly undesirable in nature, but the result is the same: a girl is forced to have to spend the rest of her life fighting demons.

Throughout the series, Buffy herself laments over her calling. Over how she was given no choice. As she is making peace with it in season 7, she again refuses to go through the ancient ritual that would give her more of this power. But she doesn't hesitate to have Willow bestow all of this upon literally every single girl in existence who has the potential to become a slayer.

What do we think about this? What does it say about Buffy? Is it hypocritical? A necessary evil? Is she justified since admitting at the end of "Get it Done" that if she had the chance, she'd go back and seek out that power?

Do you support Buffy's strategy in "Chosen," or not?

In honest truth it makes Buffy look like a complete bitch who cares more about herself than about other young girls similar to herself. At the same time though, she really didn't have too much of a choice in the matter, did she? It was either this or the world being taken over by evil? At least that's what she thought, I think. It's been too long since I've seen the episode. I think she justified her actions by believing she had no other choice and that her giving these girls "their power" that it would be "good" for them somehow.

 

[EVIL UU]

Huh?

Why do Slayers fight evil? Because they have the power and the knowledge? No, they fight because of their urge to protect and hunt they did not feel before. That urge, the need to protect - that's brainwashing.

It uses white magic, that of the Scythe as opposed to demon essence, so it's heavily implied that they were gaining Slayer power from a much purer source than the dark twisty demon essence of the Shadow Men.

I don't think we know enough about Scythe's origins to say something like that...no. Wait. Actually we do.

Take my sword. It's one of the ancient relics. Bound with demon spirit-like your Scythe.

~Dracula, Wolves at the Gate, part 4.

The source of Scythe's power is demonic. Willow didn't use white magic to activate 2003 slayers, she used exactly the same source as the shadow men.

So what's with the white hair? Well, Willow's casting a mega-spell but mostly she simply believes that what she does is genuinely good, I think. She's not motivated by hate or anger but by love, of the non-romantic kind of course, because she casts that spell for Buffy.

Buffy and gang and Potentials were carrying the idiot ball in S7

Yeah, I know but really, is that an excuse? They did stupid shit because they were stupid? Well, no shit.

We can assume that, fine, the problem is they were anything but stupid the last couple of years. Eh, season 7 is such a garbage.

Twilight would have come to pass regardless; it was prophesied.

Like it was prophesied that The Master would rise and destroy the world? Prophecy is just that, a prophecy, it might happen, it might not. If The First had won the war and exterminated the slayer line there would have been no Twilight. Funny thing, The First tries to save the old world, part of the power which forever wills evil and forever works good and so on.

It's not like we know how the spell works, so it's probably only possible for her to empower all Potentials.

I might be wrong, but didn't Willow create that spell from scratch?

 

[dexeded]

Why do Slayers fight evil? Because they have the power and the knowledge? No, they fight because of their urge to protect and hunt they did not feel before. That urge, the need to protect - that's brainwashing.

But that 'need to protect' is within them in the first place because they are Potentials--they are born that way.

I don't think we know enough about Scythe's origins to say something like that...no. Wait. Actually we do.



~Dracula, Wolves at the Gate, part 4.

The source of Scythe's power is demonic. Willow didn't use white magic to activate 2003 slayers, she used exactly the same source as the shadow men.

So what's with the white hair? Well, Willow's casting a mega-spell but mostly she simply believes that what she does is genuinely good, I think. She's not motivated by hate or anger but by love, of the non-romantic kind of course, because she casts that spell for Buffy.

...Oh. Well, I have nothing to say against that. So the Guardians were basically as bad as the Shadow Men?

Yeah, I know but really, is that an excuse? They did stupid shit because they were stupid? Well, no shit.

We can assume that, fine, the problem is they were anything but stupid the last couple of years. Eh, season 7 is such a garbage.

Well, it's actually that the writers had no idea what to do with the plot... but in the show itself, yeah, there's no other explanation except that they were just stupid.

Like it was prophesied that The Master would rise and destroy the world? Prophecy is just that, a prophecy, it might happen, it might not. If The First had won the war and exterminated the slayer line there would have been no Twilight. Funny thing, The First tries to save the old world, part of the power which forever wills evil and forever works good and so on.

The prophecy on The Master was simply that he would rise and Buffy would die. They just assumed that would mean the world would be destroyed on account of The Master's purported power. Not all prophecies come to pass, yes, but in The Master's case, Giles said that everything in the Codex does come to pass. I am inclined to believe Twilight was once such prophecy that would have come to pass regardless--why else would the Watchers all have committed mass suicide?

I might be wrong, but didn't Willow create that spell from scratch?

It's never explicitly said, but I think she did too. But it doesn't matter if she created it or took it from the Shadow Men/adapted the Shadow Men's spell, because it just may have been an impossibility to only empower certain Potentials.

 

[SlayerFest]

Something I've been meaning to bring up for a while, because I think it really needs to be discussed/acknowledged, even if the characters themselves aren't going to do it!

In "Get it Done," Buffy comes to understand and witness firsthand what exactly was done to the first slayer, to start the slayer line. Effectively, she is raped by demons, gaining their strength. Undeniably, she finds this truth repulsive so much so that she refuses to accept the additional strength that the shadow men are willing to bestow upon her in an identical fashion.

At the end of the episode, she admits to Willow that she may have been wrong for refusing this power.

In "Chosen," she decides to "empower" every single potential girl in the world in an undeniably similar fashion to what was done by the shadow men. Obviously it was a less violent procedure and less blatantly undesirable in nature, but the result is the same: a girl is forced to have to spend the rest of her life fighting demons.

Throughout the series, Buffy herself laments over her calling. Over how she was given no choice. As she is making peace with it in season 7, she again refuses to go through the ancient ritual that would give her more of this power. But she doesn't hesitate to have Willow bestow all of this upon literally every single girl in existence who has the potential to become a slayer.

What do we think about this? What does it say about Buffy? Is it hypocritical? A necessary evil? Is she justified since admitting at the end of "Get it Done" that if she had the chance, she'd go back and seek out that power?

Do you support Buffy's strategy in "Chosen," or not?

When I first saw that episode, I was 11 and I really didn't think about how hypocritical that was. Now I see what you're saying and honestly...no, I don't believe it was a necessary evil. I honestly find it stupid that they would turn every single potential in the world, into a slayer. It's insane. Why the hell would Giles of all people find that brilliant? Why didn't Willow just turn the Potentials in Sunnydale into slayers?? They were all prepared to deal with that. Did they fail to realize that even psychotic potentials like Dana would become slayers and maim and kill tons of people? Ugh it annoys me whenever I let myself think about it!

Haha...sorry, I've wanted to vent about that for some time. It was, in theory, a nice ending to a show about female empowerment, but it was honestly just...stupid, in my opinion. Maybe Buffy realized it was pretty dumb not to take that power and she decided to "make it right" but yeah...I'm not sure. Now that'll bother the crap out of me too 😉

 

[BuffyElevated]

I love "Chosen". I find it to be one of the single most inspiring episodes of the entire series. However, there are some pretty big...flaws in the matrix with it too. I mean, what you said is largely right. We've seen with Faith and Dana that whatever it is that decides who should be a Slayer isn't exactly a perfect system. Thrusting that kind of power on just anyone, thousands of just anyone, is pretty irresponsible.

One of the things I hated about "Damage" in Angel S5, and they never addressed it, was that the entire fault for everything Dana did, other than the guy who tortured her of course, laid with Buffy and Willow, really. They were the ones who granted her that power out of nowhere which she then went out and killed about a dozen people with. And yet, Angel's the bad guy? Anyways, kind of getting off track with that.

The other problem with what Buffy and Willow did was that they didn't really...need it to happen. I mean, this kind of gets glossed over, but Angel and Spike pretty much solved the problem of the uber-vamps. They didn't really need to turn all the Potentials into Slayers. I mean, the amulet that Angel brings over from Wolfram & Hart dusts all the uber-vamps and destroys the hellmouth. So...

I get the metaphor, and I like it a lot, and I know they needed a big final Willow moment, but practically, it was incredibly irresponsible. I mean, every death that Dana, and others like her (I'm sure she's not the only newly empowered Slayer who shouldn't have that power) causes finds fault with Buffy, Willow, Kennedy and everyone else who helped with that spell.

But I want to make it clear, I like "Chosen" a lot. There are holes in it, but I don't let that get in the way of my enjoying it and liking everything it was about.

I definitely agree with you. I love "Chosen", and I thought the plan they executed was pretty brilliant, but I have often thought to myself that not everyone who was "called" to be a Slayer should have been one.
Faith and Dana are excellent examples of power that was abused (even though Faith was rehabilitated), and Rona is an example of someone whose attitude hindered her a lot of the times; she seemed to have a real chip on her shoulder when it came to listening to those in charge, and I never thought she proved that she deserved to be a Slayer.
I don't think Buffy was really thinking about how giving all that power would affect those girls. I think she was mainly thinking about how to win the battle at hand.

 

[Kenimowy]

I agree with HisMrs. I think Buffy was focusing on one thing and that was winning the battle. I mean come on, they were fighting The First, the essence of evil, something that can be beaten back but never truly defeated, so I think the best game plan she could come up with was to gain as much manpower as possible.

I for one do not think the calling of all slayers was bad. Yes it sucks that there are some that shouldn't have been, but there are more that should be then not be. With all of those slayers, it makes certain death a lot less certain, and it also ensures that in the battle against good and evil that good will keep the upper hand.

Like someone said previously, if I were a "potential" I would much rather go ahead and be activated and then have the choice on whether I want to use those powers or not. Watching Buffy and Angel, it is obvious there is no shortage of creepy demon things lurking behind the backs of mankind, so I think it would be nice to have a chance to defend yourself if given the opportunity.

The only hazy part is the very thin line about whether or not what Buffy decided to do is hypocritical because of her own feelings on the matter, but I think Buffy would have not felt so against her calling as a young girl had it not been so dependent on her alone.
Anybody feels overwhelmed with anything when it is all on your shoulders alone.
Imagine being the only one to fight evil and protect everyone around you while knowing you could die at any given moment and nobody can help you? That would me me pretty mad too. But if I had super powers and so did Mary, Jessica, Lisa, and Vickie, I wouldn't feel nearly as alone, scared, or angry about it. Strength in numbers 🙂

This is just my viewpoint on it though!

 

[Robb Stark]

Passing Angel off as the bad guy didn't have anything to do with Dana. It had to do with him heading up the big evil law firm. Also, while Slayer strength and visions would be extremely debilitating to the already unstable, I think that the main problem with the Slayer spell would lie more among those like Faith (S3 dark Faith, that is) and Simone.

Yeah, and I should remember that it's a horribly written scene. I just don't buy for one second that Buffy would throw out everything she's gone through with Angel and Spike, without even talking to Angel, because he started working at Wolfram & Hart. I like to think that it was Xander or Giles who gave the order. I know they were trying to show that Angel was blurring the lines though.

About Dana, my point was more that Angel was, frankly, the one to mop up Buffy and Willow's mess, and they treated him like crap. Everything Dana did was, almost entirely, their fault, and it fell to Angel and Spike to clean it up. And then Andrew of all people can just march in and bully them out of it? Sorry, but that seems lame to me.

 

[Gum Gnome33]

See, I think it's a nice idea in theory. Activate everyone, and if they choose to fight, they will.

In practice? Whole other thing, and I think Buffy should have known better.

There are relatively few potentials--new slayers--in the world. In any given town or city, there might be only one. The slayer army seems to mostly be concentrated in SF and W Europe. What about the rest of the world? A girl living in Wisconsin, for example, may be the only slayer in the whole state. Buffy was the only slayer in the world, (Faith and Kendra aside), yet she hardly, (if ever?) left California. Granted, she was over the hellmouth--the place at which you'll find the most dangerous of all evil things. BUT the daily threats against her were local, just as they'd be to the lone slayer in Wisconsin. That girl is alone, too, unless they're going to start putting other slayers in her state. But how can they? There aren't enough slayers to go around.

Bottom line: any given girl, unless she joins the slayer army and follows them geographically, is likely going to have to fight the monsters all alone, just as Buffy did. Again, it won't be as dismal as it was for her without the hellmouth, but the parallels are pretty obvious, and I'm very surprised that Buffy didn't at least acknowledge this.

The other thing: empowerment is a tricky term. In this case, there's a fine line between truly empowering someone and merely coercing them to do your will. If a potential walks up to Willow and asks to be given power and Willow does so, that's empowering her. If she has no idea what the life of a slayer is, that monsters are real, and is living a nice quiet life in Nebraska and someone gives her this power, the ramifications are very different. As others have pointed out, if she's in a mental hospital, well....etc.

Look, when the shadow men decided to create slayers, I'm sure they justified it to themselves in an eerily similar fashion to how the scoobies decided to empower all these potentials. "How excellent for her, she'll be able to defend herself against monsters!" they said. And back then, it might have really been something great. Life expectancy was short anyway, and what else was a girl going to become? A doctor or a lawyer? Why not a warrior? Anyway, the point is that they took the choice away from these girls. And then Buffy and the scoobies did the same.

"Here's the part where you make a choice," she says. "Are you ready to be strong?" Touching, empowering, all that. But...who's she talking to? The potentials in the room with her. Not the girl in Wisconsin studying to be a vet. And I don't completely buy the argument that the choice comes after the empowering. At that point I think it is entirely too late for most people, to either choose to ignore the truth about the state of the world vs monsters, or to not be haunted forever by the decision if they do.

Anyway, it's easy on the surface to think of this as a great thing; I"m just suggesting that maybe there's more to it than that. Maybe in reality it truly isn't.