"Those who can stand up, will stand up"

[Robb Stark]

One of the things that I don't think everyone is taking into account:

It isn't always a great thing to be chosen.

Sure, the idea in theory of getting powers and fighting evil, basically being a comic book superhero, is a cool one. And if I had powers, I'd probably do the same. But...I think that people should understand that being a slayer, being Batman, being a hero...isn't fun for the people doing it. They do it in spite of everything they have to go through.

And not everyone is Buffy. Not everyone is Bruce Wayne or Angel. Not everyone is a hero. In comics, T.V. and movies we almost always see the hero of the story emerge into a great man or woman, but if that were to happen on a global scale like the spell Willow did, well, it's a recipe for disaster. I've already talked about Dana and Faith. People died because of them. A lot of people.

So to thrust that kind of power and inherent responsibility onto someone with no discretion or prior knowledge is beyond unfair. It's actually a horrible thing to do. Life breaks the way it does, and we have to react and adjust to the curveballs that get thrown at us but...that doesn't, for one second, give Buffy or Willow and the rest the right to put that in front of someone.

It's really a shame that Buffy wasn't in Angel S5, because this would have been a really interesting topic to explore on the series, especially after Dana. And, vanity aside, I think that Angel would agree with me.

I don't have superpowers or anything, but I've had other things in life happen that have dictated where I've gone and morally felt I had to go. It may seem cool on paper, but being "chosen" isn't great.

 

[Kean]

Do you support Buffy's strategy in "Chosen," or not?

Nope. Nope. Nope. World of nope.

I hate it and have done for a long time. Just as you say, we are explicitly shown in S7 that slayerhood is regarded as a violation by Buffy. She hates it. She hates how it started. She hates what it has done to her and her life. For her to then, unnecessarily, turn around and violate every girl that could be a slayer is just appalling. Even more so when she has the audacity to call the spell Willow does "a choice" to be strong. There was literally no choice in this situation. Even that phrasing maddens me. "Are you ready to be strong?" Why is a women's strength being tied directly to her physical capabilities? On this show? The implication that the Potentials, who were children taken from their homes to a strangers house to fight evil itself, are not already strong women simply by being there, is insane. The courage and character it would take for someone to ride that whole thing out, especially when you don't have confidence in you leader and your friends are dying around you.

That speech and spell is supposed to be this life affirming, Feminist, empowering moment. When it is actually one of the most demoralising of the series because it is so far from what Buffy, the character, and Buffy series, was supposed to be.

 

[EVIL UU]

[MENTION=11500]drizzlydaze[/MENTION]

But that 'need to protect' is within them in the first place because they are Potentials--they are born that way.

I don't think so, there's nothing in the canon to support that. On the contrary, compare how the potentials act before and after activation, Vi goes from I think I'm freaking out and We should run and Fighting's one thing. Winning's another to These guys are dust. Her personality changes.

Also, was the need to protect within Chloe? I doubt that.

So the Guardians were basically as bad as the Shadow Men?

I have no idea. Everything we know about them comes from the short dialogue in "The End of Days". That's it, they don't appear anywhere else. Although, has there ever been a truly good, powerful magic user? Tara's probably closest to that and even Tara does some crazy, irresponsible shit in "Family".

It's never explicitly said, but I think she did too. But it doesn't matter if she created it or took it from the Shadow Men/adapted the Shadow Men's spell, because it just may have been an impossibility to only empower certain Potentials.

I agree, but you know, it's Willow Screw it! I suck at Latin, OK? Rosenberg. She's an over achiever and moderateness is something completely abstract to her. She casts big just for the hell of it, but it's not like Buffy ever asked for anything less. With Willow it's like, she can't just light a joint or have a beer, chill out and go home, she'll sniff a sandbox of cocaine, wash down a handful of pills with vodka and party for two days straight. And she'll be fine.

Willow's extreme, she wouldn't even want to activate some potentials, not good enough for her.

 

[white avenger]

Yeah, and I should remember that it's a horribly written scene. I just don't buy for one second that Buffy would throw out everything she's gone through with Angel and Spike, without even talking to Angel, because he started working at Wolfram & Hart. I like to think that it was Xander or Giles who gave the order. I know they were trying to show that Angel was blurring the lines though.

About Dana, my point was more that Angel was, frankly, the one to mop up Buffy and Willow's mess, and they treated him like crap. Everything Dana did was, almost entirely, their fault, and it fell to Angel and Spike to clean it up. And then Andrew of all people can just march in and bully them out of it? Sorry, but that seems lame to me.

I've always thought that that last scene should have been Xander showing up with the Slayers to retrieve Dana, surprising Andrew as much as it did Angel or Spike. That "Buffy doesn't trust you anymore, Angel," is totally something that Xander would say. Also, the whole idea of letting Angel and Spike do the dirty work, then taking Dana away from them is something that I would expect Giles to think of, rather than Buffy. Also the statement that she no longer trusted Angel (or Spike) because of their association with Wolfram & Hart is exactly what Giles repeats later when Angel tries to contact Willow to try and help Fred. From the first time that saw that episode, I believed, and still do, that Buffy was never aware of anything concerning Dana, that it was all just Giles restricting all communication between Buffy and any vampire who he might deem unworthy of her.

 

[EVIL UU]

[MENTION=11753]Fredikins[/MENTION]

Did they fail to realize that even psychotic potentials like Dana would become slayers and maim and kill tons of people?

Psychopaths are just a pick of an iceberg. For all we know, the potentials are chosen at random. So among all those thousands of slayers you have 10 year old girls and young women with children, families, jobs, loved ones, you know, with lives and suddenly they have to deal with all this supernatural crap because some idiots on the other side of the globe decided to do a spell.

Should a mother of a 3 year old follow her calling and join the slayer army? Should an 11 year old girl fight vampires every night? Sure, they don't have to but they still have to deal with slayer dreams, with superpowers and with a burning urge to go out there and slay some sons of bitches. What will they choose? Will they find a balance?

The scale of damage caused by that spell is freaking unbelievable.

 

[Kean]

From the first time that saw that episode, I believed, and still do, that Buffy was never aware of anything concerning Dana, that it was all just Giles restricting all communication between Buffy and any vampire who he might deem unworthy of her.

While it isn't said explicitly I think S8 pretty much confirms this. The first few pages of S8 confirm that Buffy had nothing to do with the Italy mission at all. Not only that, she and Andrew were by no means close enough friends for her to be confiding anything in terms of her feelings for Angel and Spike to him. It was just another elaborate story of Andrew's. Later on when her estrangement from Giles is illuminated upon, it is made pretty clear that she had no involvement in his dealings with Angel in ATS, she most likely doesn't even know about them.

 

[tec]

Look what the writers did is done in the end its in books. History has been writen
is it perfect no..does it need to be though? No it never needs to If it was perfect we would not have anything to talk about.
We would all sit around going Gosh darn the ending of Buffy was so perfect.

Im glad it has flaws and has cracks But over all its a well crafted show

So on that note... lets explore the cracks in the whole Dana thing
We only have Andrews word he was sent by Buffy unless they shot a scene with SMG giveing thoses orders and it got cut we can have all kinds of fun with it.

I myself like the fact Andrew threatend Angel with a throw down Wilh Slayers..Who by the way seemed prutty keen on the idea of being a Slayer.

 

[SlayerFest]

I love "Chosen". I find it to be one of the single most inspiring episodes of the entire series. However, there are some pretty big...flaws in the matrix with it too. I mean, what you said is largely right. We've seen with Faith and Dana that whatever it is that decides who should be a Slayer isn't exactly a perfect system. Thrusting that kind of power on just anyone, thousands of just anyone, is pretty irresponsible.

One of the things I hated about "Damage" in Angel S5, and they never addressed it, was that the entire fault for everything Dana did, other than the guy who tortured her of course, laid with Buffy and Willow, really. They were the ones who granted her that power out of nowhere which she then went out and killed about a dozen people with. And yet, Angel's the bad guy? Anyways, kind of getting off track with that.

The other problem with what Buffy and Willow did was that they didn't really...need it to happen. I mean, this kind of gets glossed over, but Angel and Spike pretty much solved the problem of the uber-vamps. They didn't really need to turn all the Potentials into Slayers. I mean, the amulet that Angel brings over from Wolfram & Hart dusts all the uber-vamps and destroys the hellmouth. So...

I get the metaphor, and I like it a lot, and I know they needed a big final Willow moment, but practically, it was incredibly irresponsible. I mean, every death that Dana, and others like her (I'm sure she's not the only newly empowered Slayer who shouldn't have that power) causes finds fault with Buffy, Willow, Kennedy and everyone else who helped with that spell.

But I want to make it clear, I like "Chosen" a lot. There are holes in it, but I don't let that get in the way of my enjoying it and liking everything it was about.

I love you. I mean seriously, I feel the exact same way. You summed up my thoughts better than I could. YES. Haha ugh! I hate when Andrew gives Angel that BS mini speech about how he's the "bad guy" now, when from our standpoint, the scoobies and...everyone else, didn't know a thing about Wolfram and Hart. They probably googled it. Angel's automatically evil because he's associated with the enemy, even though he was trying to do something good from within, but they don't even seem to care about that. Actually, I doubt they asked. That really bothers me. They were right about Dana "belonging" with them, because if they hadn't turned her into a slayer, she obviously wouldn't have busted out of the mental hospital. I love Chosen but...that was so incredibly irresponsible and just plain stupid. I don't buy that those characters would actually do that, not for a second. It was all done for the metaphor, and for that reason alone, because it just doesn't make any logical sense. Arrgh!

 

[white avenger]

While it isn't said explicitly I think S8 pretty much confirms this. The first few pages of S8 confirm that Buffy had nothing to do with the Italy mission at all. Not only that, she and Andrew were by no means close enough friends for her to be confiding anything in terms of her feelings for Angel and Spike to him. It was just another elaborate story of Andrew's. Later on when her estrangement from Giles is illuminated upon, it is made pretty clear that she had no involvement in his dealings with Angel in ATS, she most likely doesn't even know about them.

Also, at the beginning of the "No Future For You" arc, Giles tells Faith that he and Buffy are basically not on speaking terms. It might be speculated that, possibly during her investigation finding out that Spike was back and in relatively good health (according to Willow in IDW's final "Spike" arc, which is accepted as canon) she found out about Dana and Giles' cover up, and possibly also his refusal to help Angel with Fred. That would be about the most logical reason for the rift between Buffy and Giles in Season 8.

 

[SlayerFest]

See, I think it's a nice idea in theory. Activate everyone, and if they choose to fight, they will.

In practice? Whole other thing, and I think Buffy should have known better.

There are relatively few potentials--new slayers--in the world. In any given town or city, there might be only one. The slayer army seems to mostly be concentrated in SF and W Europe. What about the rest of the world? A girl living in Wisconsin, for example, may be the only slayer in the whole state. Buffy was the only slayer in the world, (Faith and Kendra aside), yet she hardly, (if ever?) left California. Granted, she was over the hellmouth--the place at which you'll find the most dangerous of all evil things. BUT the daily threats against her were local, just as they'd be to the lone slayer in Wisconsin. That girl is alone, too, unless they're going to start putting other slayers in her state. But how can they? There aren't enough slayers to go around.

Bottom line: any given girl, unless she joins the slayer army and follows them geographically, is likely going to have to fight the monsters all alone, just as Buffy did. Again, it won't be as dismal as it was for her without the hellmouth, but the parallels are pretty obvious, and I'm very surprised that Buffy didn't at least acknowledge this.

The other thing: empowerment is a tricky term. In this case, there's a fine line between truly empowering someone and merely coercing them to do your will. If a potential walks up to Willow and asks to be given power and Willow does so, that's empowering her. If she has no idea what the life of a slayer is, that monsters are real, and is living a nice quiet life in Nebraska and someone gives her this power, the ramifications are very different. As others have pointed out, if she's in a mental hospital, well....etc.

Look, when the shadow men decided to create slayers, I'm sure they justified it to themselves in an eerily similar fashion to how the scoobies decided to empower all these potentials. "How excellent for her, she'll be able to defend herself against monsters!" they said. And back then, it might have really been something great. Life expectancy was short anyway, and what else was a girl going to become? A doctor or a lawyer? Why not a warrior? Anyway, the point is that they took the choice away from these girls. And then Buffy and the scoobies did the same.

"Here's the part where you make a choice," she says. "Are you ready to be strong?" Touching, empowering, all that. But...who's she talking to? The potentials in the room with her. Not the girl in Wisconsin studying to be a vet. And I don't completely buy the argument that the choice comes after the empowering. At that point I think it is entirely too late for most people, to either choose to ignore the truth about the state of the world vs monsters, or to not be haunted forever by the decision if they do.

Anyway, it's easy on the surface to think of this as a great thing; I"m just suggesting that maybe there's more to it than that. Maybe in reality it truly isn't.

Yes. And you're right, that line about them "making a choice" only applies to the Sunnydale potentials, which is why she should have Willow *only* turn them into slayers. I don't buy that it wasn't possible but...who knows. It never seems to be addressed. Also, if a new slayer had dreams of being a doctor or something, how would that work? What if she doesn't know her own strength and she breaks a needle off in a patient when she's premed or...something haha it's just insanity! And not Matthew Gray Gubler covered in cheese in my bath tub insanity.

Slayers have prophetic dreams, so there is just no way to escape. Oh and the Wisconsin scenario is a great point. What if a slayer in an insanely small town is all alone, it's not that different than Buffy's situation. Although I must admit, being a slayer and traveling the world seems like a lot of fun. I'd rather do that than make movies. Well...I'd make movies and kill demons 😀. No, while I kill them. It would be my shtick.

 

[Robb Stark]

Also, at the beginning of the "No Future For You" arc, Giles tells Faith that he and Buffy are basically not on speaking terms. It might be speculated that, possibly during her investigation finding out that Spike was back and in relatively good health (according to Willow in IDW's final "Spike" arc, which is accepted as canon) she found out about Dana and Giles' cover up, and possibly also his refusal to help Angel with Fred. That would be about the most logical reason for the rift between Buffy and Giles in Season 8.

This makes perfect sense. I never really got the rift between Buffy and Giles in S8 (although maybe it was just an accumulation of all of Giles' underhanded crap over the years). I haven't read the Spike comics yet (the After the Fall limited series was pretty good), but that would make a lot of sense.

I don't know, if I was Buffy and found out that Giles was deliberately screwing over Angel and not telling her Spike was alive, I'd be beyond enraged. They make it very, very clear by the end of "Chosen" that Buffy deeply trusts Angel and Spike, and loves them both. If I'd been her I'd done, well, exactly what she did. Kick Giles to the curb.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Let's not forget two factors here:

1. There are no more watchers beyond Giles.

So some unsuspecting female in Nebraska suddenly gets the ability - where is the training going to come from? Even after getting along without Giles for some time, Buffy asks Giles to return to being her watcher in "Dracula" Season 5 Episode 1. Someone who has never had a watcher will have talent that remains undeveloped and a capability that may go off in the wrong direction.

2. The harbingers / bringers are still out there and a potential has to deal with them or die. In this case, slayer strength is going to be welcome.

In these conditions, it's not like a potential is going to refuse the incement in ability - plenty of them have been hunted down and killed. People are living in combat zones in the world right now - do you think they would refuse any help they could get? There is no point talking about how most of us are not affected by the wars of the world - some people are and the potentials are those people in this story. A better comparison is that they are reservists being called up for active duty.

I see the transformation in "Chosen" as a stop-gap effort to allow the potentials to have a better chance of surviving. But they need training before they try to put any of their capability to use. In S7, we are left with the impression that the potentials gathered at Buffy's house are the last of their breed. It appears that only at the end, Willow says she can feel slayers awakening everywhere and the montage of girls resisting fear and domination seems to imply that they approve of the conversion to slayer status.

 

[iShower4free]

Well Angel s05/ the comics show us that they are wrangling in slayers all over the world to give them guidance and stuff. Everything you said is very true though

 

[tec]

So you all think that with one explosion and the few huntings we saw. That everybody under the watchers council is gone that entire network of agents,spy's,field workers is gone? And the secret backing by various governments?

I don't know about you but I don't think it's that neat and tidy. I think that yes there was a power vacuum when the building went up but I have a hard time believing that all the watchers in the world died. current or former.

 

[iShower4free]

We are just going off of what was said during the show, that all the watchers besides Giles was dead. Im sure retired as well as exiled watchers such as Wesley are out there though.

 

[white avenger]

Let's not forget two factors here:

1. There are no more watchers beyond Giles.

Not necessarily. Just before the Watchers' Headquarters was blown up, Travers was giving orders to notify all of their field agents and tactical teams to report in. That should indicate that at least some of the old Watchers' organization is till in existence somewhere

And as near as we could tell, once the actual siege began in Sunnydale, all of the First Evil's various minions began converging there. Granted, there might have been some still out chasing Potentials, but we never saw that in the latter part of the Season, and it's never mentioned at all in Season 8 or so far in Season 9.

 

[dexeded]

"Here's the part where you make a choice," she says. "Are you ready to be strong?" Touching, empowering, all that. But...who's she talking to? The potentials in the room with her. Not the girl in Wisconsin studying to be a vet. And I don't completely buy the argument that the choice comes after the empowering. At that point I think it is entirely too late for most people, to either choose to ignore the truth about the state of the world vs monsters, or to not be haunted forever by the decision if they do.

See, I agree that the choice isn't as shiny as it seems, but the whole 'taking away their choice' is one point I just don't get. I mean, I agree that they won't be able to escape Slayer dreams--but they can choose to not fight. I said before what you were saying was basically 'ignorance is bliss', and I stand by that. Whether or not they know of monsters, there are always going to be monsters. Isn't better to know about them and have the power to protect yourself (you can still choose not to actively fight them and risk your life) than to live in ignorance? It's like... people ignoring the hungry children in the world to avoid guilt. Or to ignore all the ugly things in the world to avoid guilt of not doing a single thing about it. That girl in Wisconsin can still be a vet if she wants. She's not going to have to fight alone because she doesn't have to fight at all.

---------- Post added at 12:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:23 PM ----------

I don't think so, there's nothing in the canon to support that. On the contrary, compare how the potentials act before and after activation, Vi goes from I think I'm freaking out and We should run and Fighting's one thing. Winning's another to These guys are dust. Her personality changes.

I would view that as a major boost in confidence on account of having much more physical power.

Also, was the need to protect within Chloe? I doubt that.

See, I think the 'need to protect' or fight or whatever would have been brought out because of their added physical strength, not because of a brainwash. Because they now are able to do something, that they now have the power needed to protect/fight, they stop running scared.

---------- Post added at 12:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:24 PM ----------

I hate when Andrew gives Angel that BS mini speech about how he's the "bad guy" now, when from our standpoint, the scoobies and...everyone else, didn't know a thing about Wolfram and Hart. They probably googled it. Angel's automatically evil because he's associated with the enemy, even though he was trying to do something good from within, but they don't even seem to care about that. Actually, I doubt they asked. That really bothers me.

On the other hand, they were right. I would argue that it was Giles who was behind it, or even Xander, rather than Buffy giving the instructions to Andrew--but regardless, they were right. Like Spike said, " I know you, Angel. What do you think you're doing? Made some devil's bargain to take over this company. Thought you'd use it to fight the evil of the world from inside the belly of the beast. Trouble is you're too busy fighting to see you and yours are getting digested." They try to change the system from inside--but it's the system that'll change them.

---------- Post added at 12:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 PM ----------

2. The harbingers / bringers are still out there and a potential has to deal with them or die. In this case, slayer strength is going to be welcome.

In these conditions, it's not like a potential is going to refuse the incement in ability - plenty of them have been hunted down and killed. People are living in combat zones in the world right now - do you think they would refuse any help they could get? There is no point talking about how most of us are not affected by the wars of the world - some people are and the potentials are those people in this story. A better comparison is that they are reservists being called up for active duty.

I see the transformation in "Chosen" as a stop-gap effort to allow the potentials to have a better chance of surviving. But they need training before they try to put any of their capability to use. In S7, we are left with the impression that the potentials gathered at Buffy's house are the last of their breed. It appears that only at the end, Willow says she can feel slayers awakening everywhere and the montage of girls resisting fear and domination seems to imply that they approve of the conversion to slayer status.

Very good point. I completely agree.

 

[EVIL UU]

[MENTION=12171]Ethan Reigns[/MENTION]

The harbingers / bringers are still out there and a potential has to deal with them or die. In this case, slayer strength is going to be welcome.

We don't know that.

It seems to me that bringers target only those potentials who have a watcher and when Willow casts her spell pretty much all of them are already in Sunnydale while the potentials that weren't identified by the council, the vast majority, are safe. I even think that The First and his cohorts use stolen council data or memories of the killed watchers to identify and locate the potentials because how else would they find them? Caleb and bringers don't cast spells and The First clearly doesn't know everything, it makes mistakes. Furthermore, the slayer line is loaded to the brim with fail-safes, I don't believe shadow men would make it easy to locate a potential, a powerful seer from the Devon coven is needed to locate some of them, because apparently even Willow isn't good enough.

And, I mean, Amanda is never attacked and she lives in Sunnydale, Bringer central. Dana is never attacked and she's an easy target, can't run away after all. Those thousands of watcher-less slayers Willow activated obviously haven't seen a bringer either, some of them still aren't told what happened years after the battle.

No, I disagree. Bringers just weren't a threat any more.

People are living in combat zones in the world right now - do you think they would refuse any help they could get? There is no point talking about how most of us are not affected by the wars of the world - some people are and the potentials are those people in this story.

So your justification for turning thousands of women and children into demons is that some of them might live in conflict zones and might need supernatural powers to fight humans? That's not how you solve conflicts. And you're going to give a 13 year old Maria from Berlin demonic powers because Maryam from Darfur might need them?

Sorry but that's just ridiculous.
[MENTION=11500]drizzlydaze[/MENTION]

See, I agree that the choice isn't as shiny as it seems, but the whole 'taking away their choice' is one point I just don't get. I mean, I agree that they won't be able to escape Slayer dreams--but they can choose to not fight. I said before what you were saying was basically 'ignorance is bliss', and I stand by that. Whether or not they know of monsters, there are always going to be monsters. Isn't better to know about them and have the power to protect yourself (you can still choose not to actively fight them and risk your life) than to live in ignorance? It's like... people ignoring the hungry children in the world to avoid guilt. Or to ignore all the ugly things in the world to avoid guilt of not doing a single thing about it. That girl in Wisconsin can still be a vet if she wants. She's not going to have to fight alone because she doesn't have to fight at all.

For a slayer to ignore her calling is to allow innocent people to die. It's a choice between their freedom and the very lives of others.

That's not a choice, OK?

The need to protect is hard-wired into them. Even into Faith, take look at her reaction after saving the girl in "Who Are You". Also, Buffy tried to ignore her calling between season 2 and 3 and look how long she managed.

It's like... people ignoring the hungry children in the world to avoid guilt.

Personally, I ignore hungry children because I know that the only people who can do something about it are their parents and their leaders. Hunger is caused by hate-driven wars and chaos in the first place and no amount of charity can fix that.

 

[dexeded]

For a slayer to ignore her calling is to allow innocent people to die. It's a choice between their freedom and the very lives of others.

That's not a choice, OK?

The need to protect is hard-wired into them. Even into Faith, take look at her reaction after saving the girl in "Who Are You". Also, Buffy tried to ignore her calling between season 2 and 3 and look how long she managed.



Personally, I ignore hungry children because I know that the only people who can do something about it are their parents and their leaders. Hunger is caused by hate-driven wars and chaos in the first place and no amount of charity can fix that.

Like helping hungry children, Slayers won't ever solve the root of the problem, just its symptoms. You can save people's lives by donating to a transparent organisation even if you don't solve the root of the problem itself, same as Slayers would save innocents from demons and avert apocalypses, while never actually preventing apocalypses from ever happening again. I suppose the fact that with Slayers, the fruit of their labours would be more upfront (you actually see the innocents you save), which makes it harder to back out from, but the result is, in essence, the same. Like, if a organisation that gives you fieldwork in building houses or something in Africa approaches you and says you have talent for it, you can still turn them down and become a lawyer.

 

[EVIL UU]

Slayers won't ever solve the root of the problem

Why not? How many vampires are there anyway? 1% of the human population? No way, that's too much. 0.1%? Sounds more like it, that's something under a million. An army of 2000 organized, trained and well equipped slayers could physically exterminate them in a couple of years, it can be done, I don't see why not. Wasn't that the point of Buffy-Youth?

It's trickier with demons, moral reasons and so on but still, we're talking slayers here and in thousands. It can't be harder than eradicating smallpox. Also, it's what actually happens in the canon, Fray's world had been apocalypse/vampire free for 200 years before her activation.

I suppose the fact that with Slayers, the fruit of their labours would be more upfront (you actually see the innocents you save), which makes it harder to back out from, but the result is, in essence, the same. Like, if a organisation that gives you fieldwork in building houses or something in Africa approaches you and says you have talent for it, you can still turn them down and become a lawyer.

What makes it really harder to back out are the dreams and the rush, the high associated with slaying. Your analogy is incorrect because human dreams, unlike those of a slayer, don't coax us to take a very specific, non-abstract path in our lives. A mechanism that influences the choices of a slayer is ingrained into her psyche. Dreams, senses, powers, everything tells her to hunt.

I'm not saying that slayers don't have free will, they do, but a little bit less than human beings, I think.