Thoughts about S5's "Damage"

[Robb Stark]

Just re-watched this episode for the first time in a while last night. I liked the whole thing up until the end, the scene with Andrew and the Slayers taking Dana from Team Angel. I just thought that scene was completely out of character. Sure, Buffy wasn't there, but Andrew by extension saying that she doesn't trust Angel enough anymore, after Angel was the one who called the Scoobies in the first place to alert them of the situation, was kind of dumb. I just can't see Buffy not trusting Angel and Wes (I don't think she really knew the rest of Angel Investigations) without even calling him to find out the situation at Wolfram & Hart. Sure, I could see why she would be upset, but she wouldn't even call him? Come on.

It just felt like poor writing, and I don't say that often about Buffy and Angel. I know it was done for further the storyline of Angel's growing doubt about taking the W&H job (a story I liked), and I know that they had planned on Buffy guest starring in the next episode (which obviously didn't happen), but I just didn't like the scene.

 

[RogueDemonHunter]

I gotta side with your opinion here, I really don't like that scene very much, I was thinking the same thing when I re- watched that episode last.

 

[dexeded]

I thought that maybe it was Giles giving the orders and saying it came from Buffy without asking what she thought of all of it. After all, in A Hole in the World, they talk only to Giles and can't get ahold of Willow and Buffy.

 

[Kairos]

Also remember that Andrew, while he often means well, just isn't that trustworthy in the end.

 

[janas]

The fifth season revolved on "lose hope" (see renunciation Shanshu). Angel, all season he felt alone and not connected, and lose also the trust of Buffy was another shot that went in that direction.

Personally, I do not have believed it to Andrew, but although it may seem strange, I loved the reaction of Angel. For me it was a further confirmation of as Buffy is important to him.

 

[white avenger]

Just re-watched this episode for the first time in a while last night. I liked the whole thing up until the end, the scene with Andrew and the Slayers taking Dana from Team Angel. I just thought that scene was completely out of character. Sure, Buffy wasn't there, but Andrew by extension saying that she doesn't trust Angel enough anymore, after Angel was the one who called the Scoobies in the first place to alert them of the situation, was kind of dumb. I just can't see Buffy not trusting Angel and Wes (I don't think she really knew the rest of Angel Investigations) without even calling him to find out the situation at Wolfram & Hart. Sure, I could see why she would be upset, but she wouldn't even call him? Come on.

It just felt like poor writing, and I don't say that often about Buffy and Angel. I know it was done for further the storyline of Angel's growing doubt about taking the W&H job (a story I liked), and I know that they had planned on Buffy guest starring in the next episode (which obviously didn't happen), but I just didn't like the scene.

I've always thought that it should have been either Xander or Giles who showed up at the last moment with a team of young Slayers. The whole "Buffy doesn't trust you anymore, Angel," was far more in keeping with what either of them would say than anything Andrew would say. Plus, why, if he had that team of Slayers at his disposal, would Andrew have ever bothered going to Angel for help in the first place? Maybe they actually planned something like that, but neither Head nor Brendon were available at the time of shooting.

 

[Robb Stark]

I've always thought that it should have been either Xander or Giles who showed up at the last moment with a team of young Slayers. The whole "Buffy doesn't trust you anymore, Angel," was far more in keeping with what either of them would say than anything Andrew would say. Plus, why, if he had that team of Slayers at his disposal, would Andrew have ever bothered going to Angel for help in the first place? Maybe they actually planned something like that, but neither Head nor Brendon were available at the time of shooting.

Good point, I thought about that as well. I could see Xander or Giles, who have never trusted Angel (and let's be fair, they have their reasons), filling that role much more. Both of them (particularly Giles) have gone behind Buffy's back in regards to Angel and Spike multiple times. Them telling Angel that Buffy trust him anymore (without actually talking with Buffy about it) would have made sense.

That's kind of how I think about that episode in my head. That Andrew was acting from things Giles had told him (Angel does have that talk with Giles a few episodes later where Giles flat out refuses to help him). I mean, Angel offers to call Buffy and Andrew says no.

As for the team of Slayers, ya, that would have been a brighter move to bring them in from the start. The only thing I can think of is that there was some delay in getting them there, but that's a bit of a stretch.

 

[white avenger]

As for the team of Slayers, ya, that would have been a brighter move to bring them in from the start. The only thing I can think of is that there was some delay in getting them there, but that's a bit of a stretch.

The way that it was presented, yes. But once again, if it had been Xander or Giles who had brought in the Slayers, it would have made perfect sense, at least in their way of looking at things. Dana was dangerous, and in her deranged state and with her powers, would have been quite capable of seriously injuring or even killing anyone who might try and stop her. By letting Angle and his people do the actual capture, the risk of injuring their own troops is eliminated, anyone getting killed would be people Giles considered the enemy, despite Buffy's feelings, plus there was the definite advantage that Angel himself might get killed (a real plus in Giles' book).

And what would have happened if Dana, herself, had somehow been killed resisting capture? "It was tragic, Buffy, and so unnecessary. If only Angel hadn't tried to act on his own. If only we could have gotten there in time. But at least now we know that Angel really has thrown in with the dark side, soul or no soul." Giles would have been practically dancing for joy even as he reported it to Buffy.

 

[Angel's vision]

Andrew was probably told to betray Angel, as a safeguard to get Dana detained, pretended to help Angel. They probably thought if Angel knew they were taking her away he would resist their efforts.
The slayers showing up at the end was an ace in the hole. Keeping the best card till last. Why they didn't find out how he got to be there, was a lack of interest on Giles part, as,he was not Angel's biggest fan. It did advocate to me it was ok to judge people rather than help them change, going against the shows theme, but it was to further Angel's despair, plot wise, so good old Cordy can "help"
Him change. Not that she ever helped him get loose of W&H which was disappointing. A theme that would of made up the remaining eps..,

 

[Jodast]

Possible story points aside the whole scene just feels wrong. Andrew wouldn't be left in charge of something like that, no matter how much back-up he had. This is a guy who can't make a dramatic escape without knocking himself unconscious, there's no way he is left in charge of a mentally unstable Slayer whilst betraying Angel at the same time. Too many things to go wrong. Also I am not a fan of Tom Lenk's acting abilities and don't think he pulled the scene off at all.

 

[BuffyElevated]

I've always thought that it should have been either Xander or Giles who showed up at the last moment with a team of young Slayers. The whole "Buffy doesn't trust you anymore, Angel," was far more in keeping with what either of them would say than anything Andrew would say. Plus, why, if he had that team of Slayers at his disposal, would Andrew have ever bothered going to Angel for help in the first place? Maybe they actually planned something like that, but neither Head nor Brendon were available at the time of shooting.

I totally agree. Having Andrew show up, who had no real connection to Angel or his team, was just weird and it felt out of place. Why should anything Andrew has to say hurt Angel, especially a message "from Buffy"?