Which is probably a good thing. Willow did kill him, and usually killing a human is huge in Buffy, but Warren was painted so unlikeable that it was hard to care. It would fit the ethics of the TV show if the killing comes back to haunt Willow.
Thoughts/Feelings about Season 8
- Thread starter Tranquillity
- Start date
Which is probably a good thing. Willow did kill him, and usually killing a human is huge in Buffy, but Warren was painted so unlikeable that it was hard to care. It would fit the ethics of the TV show if the killing comes back to haunt Willow.
Yeah, maybe if I've seen more of Warren haunting Willow, I'll be pleased. 🙂 Then again, I have high hopes for this season.
Hooowwwler
Townie
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2009
- Messages
- 4
My current reflective outlook on BtvS S8 thus far...
Thus far I quite like it. I've read the first two S8 story arcs TLWH as well as NFFY, and really enjoyed them. I can't quite recall not liking anything from BtVS (and from AtS from what I remember). I tend to share AndrewCrossette's views/sentiments about S8 and BtVS as a whole. I definetly am more partial to BtVS and there may have been things that I may have been somewhat impartial too (probably a bit more so in Ats) but nothing major. I mean some of the things that have happened/have yet to happen that have been/will probably be sad/upsetting but that's within the context of the story and that's how good stories are constructed in my opinion. There's a plethora of deptht to be found among it's many layers (like an onion Having liked many comic book/grahpic novel Marvel/DC characters I've like many elements of that medium in general. I've also really liked the art of many.
BtVS Season 8 really is drawing me in. In fact I credit BtVS S8 and everyone involved, for allowing me access and growing interest in comics (especially graphic novels) related to BtVS (at the moment) but also in general. I have since reading BtVS S8 TLWH bought and read fully: Fray, Tales of the Vampire and Tales of the Slayers and most currently BtVS S8 NFFY. I have enjoyed them immensely.
I think this medium truly is an artform. I honestly think the covers are stunning, the art/pencils/drawing and colouring of inside the comics that the panels are usually done well, even some are amazing and at worst, very substantial/sufficient. I also like the writing of the dialogue between characters and the voice over/internal monologue/thoughts feel genuinely like how or what they would've possibly been like on tv. Basically I can "hear" them say it. Their reactions also I think are true to character, especially with how things were unfolding in the former seasons of 6 and 7. The story as well, even being upscaled, grandiose, fantastical as it's developing, (I think) has an increasingly appropriate epicness to it. Yeah sure, some moments are admittedly like, "What?" at first, in taken to direct comparison to the scale, budget and what was achievalbe on tv. Also though, the setting was much more downscaled and quaint, which wasn't necessarily a bad thing at all. It fit the medium and I highly enjoyed and still do when re-watch it. I'm actually in midsts of watchin S4 again and watched the ep "New Moon Rising" a few days ago. I think though the scale was tied quite a bit to the setting. I mean that most of it happened in or just on the outskirts of Sunnydale and they were a considerably smaller faction then. It also fit the story quite well. I think since Joss and Co. are given much more freedom now and the bugetary, technical, censorship and actor restraints don't really apply anymore, they have more freedom. For the most part, I also think Joss and the other uber talented writers don't come up with such fantastical things, just because... just because they can be drawn, because they can get away with it, because they can do whatever they damn near please. There's usually a reason and usually a good, solid, thought out and often premeditated reason. Let's not forget that (if I remember correctly) Joss aparently had a plan and outline for the first 5 seasons of BtVS (I am led to believe?) ahead of time (possibly before the show began or was filming S1 right?). Joss (and Co. I think) is/are also fan(s) of metaphor which I think what is used for Dawn and her physical size. Actions have consequences, sometimes very dire ones, and all that. Especially since Joss is the executive producer/sometimes writer he definetly has a firmer grip on what's in and what isn't, then in the stories in the Omnibus volumes (for the most part I think?). However I think him or his office were sent plot outlines and Joss/his office authorized/approved them.
I have however read the first few stories of Omnibus Vol 7 and I like that as well (I kind of started with the last, I've got to get the first and go up from there.) I had bought Omnibus Vol 7 when I bought NFFY and WATG (WATH I still have yet to read, although I'm trying to savor it, like most things such as video games, and not rush through it.)
In closing I think they are more liberated to do so and I encourage Joss and Co. to tell an amazing story with the abilities and means at hand. As long as there is some degree of reason and clarity in most cases, when possible. I congratulate the amazingly talented team of writers and artists, as well as Dark Horse supporting Joss. Thanks again to everyone! Peace. 🙂 Later. ;-)
Thus far I quite like it. I've read the first two S8 story arcs TLWH as well as NFFY, and really enjoyed them. I can't quite recall not liking anything from BtVS (and from AtS from what I remember). I tend to share AndrewCrossette's views/sentiments about S8 and BtVS as a whole. I definetly am more partial to BtVS and there may have been things that I may have been somewhat impartial too (probably a bit more so in Ats) but nothing major. I mean some of the things that have happened/have yet to happen that have been/will probably be sad/upsetting but that's within the context of the story and that's how good stories are constructed in my opinion. There's a plethora of deptht to be found among it's many layers (like an onion Having liked many comic book/grahpic novel Marvel/DC characters I've like many elements of that medium in general. I've also really liked the art of many.
BtVS Season 8 really is drawing me in. In fact I credit BtVS S8 and everyone involved, for allowing me access and growing interest in comics (especially graphic novels) related to BtVS (at the moment) but also in general. I have since reading BtVS S8 TLWH bought and read fully: Fray, Tales of the Vampire and Tales of the Slayers and most currently BtVS S8 NFFY. I have enjoyed them immensely.
I think this medium truly is an artform. I honestly think the covers are stunning, the art/pencils/drawing and colouring of inside the comics that the panels are usually done well, even some are amazing and at worst, very substantial/sufficient. I also like the writing of the dialogue between characters and the voice over/internal monologue/thoughts feel genuinely like how or what they would've possibly been like on tv. Basically I can "hear" them say it. Their reactions also I think are true to character, especially with how things were unfolding in the former seasons of 6 and 7. The story as well, even being upscaled, grandiose, fantastical as it's developing, (I think) has an increasingly appropriate epicness to it. Yeah sure, some moments are admittedly like, "What?" at first, in taken to direct comparison to the scale, budget and what was achievalbe on tv. Also though, the setting was much more downscaled and quaint, which wasn't necessarily a bad thing at all. It fit the medium and I highly enjoyed and still do when re-watch it. I'm actually in midsts of watchin S4 again and watched the ep "New Moon Rising" a few days ago. I think though the scale was tied quite a bit to the setting. I mean that most of it happened in or just on the outskirts of Sunnydale and they were a considerably smaller faction then. It also fit the story quite well. I think since Joss and Co. are given much more freedom now and the bugetary, technical, censorship and actor restraints don't really apply anymore, they have more freedom. For the most part, I also think Joss and the other uber talented writers don't come up with such fantastical things, just because... just because they can be drawn, because they can get away with it, because they can do whatever they damn near please. There's usually a reason and usually a good, solid, thought out and often premeditated reason. Let's not forget that (if I remember correctly) Joss aparently had a plan and outline for the first 5 seasons of BtVS (I am led to believe?) ahead of time (possibly before the show began or was filming S1 right?). Joss (and Co. I think) is/are also fan(s) of metaphor which I think what is used for Dawn and her physical size. Actions have consequences, sometimes very dire ones, and all that. Especially since Joss is the executive producer/sometimes writer he definetly has a firmer grip on what's in and what isn't, then in the stories in the Omnibus volumes (for the most part I think?). However I think him or his office were sent plot outlines and Joss/his office authorized/approved them.
I have however read the first few stories of Omnibus Vol 7 and I like that as well (I kind of started with the last, I've got to get the first and go up from there.) I had bought Omnibus Vol 7 when I bought NFFY and WATG (WATH I still have yet to read, although I'm trying to savor it, like most things such as video games, and not rush through it.)
In closing I think they are more liberated to do so and I encourage Joss and Co. to tell an amazing story with the abilities and means at hand. As long as there is some degree of reason and clarity in most cases, when possible. I congratulate the amazingly talented team of writers and artists, as well as Dark Horse supporting Joss. Thanks again to everyone! Peace. 🙂 Later. ;-)
The only serious problem I have with season 8 is the treatment of Simone Doffler and her crew. It doesn't make sense that Buffy and her army of slayers (Scottland), Faith and Giles (Germany), and Andrew & co. (Italy) can be forced into such extreme hiding in retreat pt 1 while we still have no resolution regarding Simone and her army of rogue slayers.
Remember, they took over an entire island. They kicked people out of their homes and sent them to the main land. It'd be silly to assume that the people from the mainland didn't have something to say about the appearance of all these random islanders showing up on their turf. I mean, look at the way immigration works in America (they took our jerbs.) Am I honestly supposed to believe that Simone's army hasn't been affected by this in any way?
I suppose it's possible that Twilight has decided to turn a blind eye to the rogue slayers since they're against Buffy, but what about the "ordinary humans" that hate and fear them? You mean to tell me those mainlanders didn't have any problem with Doffler's crew taking over an island? What about the US Army that we haven't seen since issue four?
As hard as it is to stomach the "everybody knows that vampires and slayers exist and they hate slayers" thing is, I can overlook it because I'm just hoping... praying that it's some kind of spell that Twilight is using to get the world on his side. As far as Simone Doffler goes, though? It needs to be wrapped up, or at least touched on. It's unfair to everyone.
Edit: Also, Alex from Tales last month should really be included in the series. It's such an awesome concept that it would be a true waste to just drop it.
Remember, they took over an entire island. They kicked people out of their homes and sent them to the main land. It'd be silly to assume that the people from the mainland didn't have something to say about the appearance of all these random islanders showing up on their turf. I mean, look at the way immigration works in America (they took our jerbs.) Am I honestly supposed to believe that Simone's army hasn't been affected by this in any way?
I suppose it's possible that Twilight has decided to turn a blind eye to the rogue slayers since they're against Buffy, but what about the "ordinary humans" that hate and fear them? You mean to tell me those mainlanders didn't have any problem with Doffler's crew taking over an island? What about the US Army that we haven't seen since issue four?
As hard as it is to stomach the "everybody knows that vampires and slayers exist and they hate slayers" thing is, I can overlook it because I'm just hoping... praying that it's some kind of spell that Twilight is using to get the world on his side. As far as Simone Doffler goes, though? It needs to be wrapped up, or at least touched on. It's unfair to everyone.
Edit: Also, Alex from Tales last month should really be included in the series. It's such an awesome concept that it would be a true waste to just drop it.
AndrewCrossett
Satsu Otaku
Just recently in a Q&A I asked Scott Allie (the editor of the comics) if it was possible that Simone and her gang were actually working for Twilight, causing all this trouble as a way of making humans think all Slayers were terrorists.
His response: "That is an excellent question."
Did you notice how stereotypically "evil" Simone acted around Buffy and Andrew? That's not how she was acting when we saw her before. And she sits on a throne, on a stage, in a theater... like an actor playing a role.
I think there was no military response to Simone's takeover of the town because the Italian government is working with Twilight. This would also explain why Andrew and his Slayers were forced to hide underground... Scott also confirmed that the human authorities that are hunting Slayers are working with Twilight.
So, how is the reader supposed to know that ordinary humans know what Twilight is trying to do and are in league with him? The comics have made it obvious that Twilight is working with the US Military, but we haven't seen him in league with the everyday humans that pose such a threat to Faith and Giles that they're forced to live underground. It's nice of Scott Allie to confirm things, but I think that the reader deserves a little story time dedicated to this.
Buffyverse Fan
* The 28th *
Honestly, I haven't checked to see which comics were written by which authors, but it's not surprising that a non-Buffyverse guy has done a great job, just look at Brian Lynch!
In short, no. But you do get a lot more out of S8. Angel: AtF was like a 3 episode arc, in terms of length, where Buffy S8 will amount to roughly the length of Buffy S1.
Angel: After the Fall benefited from its short length by enabling Joss and Bryan to sit out and storyboard the entire 17-issues, beginning to end, so it was succinct, and every moment progressed the story. Also, according to Joss and David Fury, AtF turned out extremely similarly to the Angel Season 6 planned for the WB.
Buffy Season Eight suffers from its 40 issues and big staff, so the plot meanders more and also strays from the original TV "vision" more, according to Joss, anyway, who wrote the series and both comics.
All-in-all though, Buffy Season Eight was the first comic I've ever read, and from that small frame of reference I'd give the following rankings:
- Buffy Season Eight (discounting Predators & Prey): 4.5-stars
- Buffy Season Eight (counting everything): 3.5 Stars
- Fray: 4-stars
- Angel: After the Fall (real issues 1-17): 5-Stars
- Spike: After the Fall: 5-stars
- Angel: Aftermath (glorified poorly done fanfic): 1-Star
white avenger
white avenger
I hate that the story, due to the extreme lack of pages per issue, has to be drawn out for 4 months or more, when it could have been done, and done better, in a single episode of the tv series. Add to that, the art is terrible, with the exception of the covers, and I have no idea where this current "season" is actually going, (though I'm beginning to think that Twilight is actually only a red herring used to distract us from the REAL Big Bad who hasn't been revealed yet) but at this pace, my granddaughter will be starting high school before it's ever concluded.
If I wasn't hopelessly addicted to Buffy in any form whatsoever, I would have given up on the comics by the time the first arc was concluded.
If I wasn't hopelessly addicted to Buffy in any form whatsoever, I would have given up on the comics by the time the first arc was concluded.
AndrewCrossett
Satsu Otaku
The art is a matter of taste, I guess. A lot of us really enjoy Jeanty's work.
I've suspected for quite some time that Twilight may in fact be a red herring. It's also likely that his true agenda is very different from the one he's claimed.
And it is true that the story moves frustratingly slow in the form of monthly 22-page comics, and that quite a bit of information therefore has to get left out that shouldn't. But that's the way it works, unfortunately. It's this format or nothing at all.
I've been very happy with the comics, but I live in fear of the possibility I might die of something before it's over and not get to see the ending. (Yes, believe it or not, that is one of the first things that occurs to me when I think about dying.)
white avenger
My complaint about the art is mostly about the lack of detail. Characters in the background, for instance, don't even have faces, just, at best, a couple of dots for eyes.
white avenger
white avenger
I've got that part all figured out. If I die before the series ends, I plan to haunt Kean wherever she goes. I'll be like a combination Vengeance Demon and Phantom Dennis, constantly reading Buffy and Angel comics over her shoulder and whispering about the merits of Spuffy over Bangel.
five x five
heroes are over with
These are pretty much the main points I was going to make, too.
I love The Giles/Faith Arc. No Future For You was the best, I think. I have a soft spot for Faith, I'll admit, because she's a Boston girl like me and I really liked all the references to that in this arc. However, it's this new and really cool relationship between Faith and Giles that I really like. I hope we can see even more of it soon.
I also like how Buffy realized that she can't give so many people so much power and turning the Potentials into Slayers may have been a good temporary fix - and was quite powerful in Chosen - but isn't good in the longterm.
Agreed when it comes to how well-known vampires are now. I don't think humans should know like they do. I wish they had stayed in the dark, that's what I liked about the Slayer and how she wasn't so well-known and that she could fight vampires in secrets so humans had nothing to worry about. Now the slayers are the enemies and the vampires are who everyone wants to be. The thing is, I think they're trying to make fun of the vampire hype in pop culture these days - thank you Twilight? - and how ridiculous it is. That part I find funny.
P
Perny
Guest
I'm enjoying the Faith/Giles arc the most. It's great to see them together, because they can actually learn from each other. In some ways they are more alike than you would think, and Faith could use someone like Giles to make some sense in her world. I somehow hpe Giles will become to Faith, what she always wanted, and what he was for Buffy. A father figure who isn't too cuddly, but who cares. Faith kinda had that with The Mayor, but he wasn't the best rolemodel for a Slayer..
OrMaybeMidgets
Townie
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2009
- Messages
- 37
I just found the Buffyverse this year and devoured the DVDs in a short period--multi episodes each night, rewatching best ones, etc. It was a harsh thing to be done when i'd just fallen in love, so I went out and bought the first two multi-issue compilations of Season 8 and read those in rapid succession. Thoughts/feelings: I am still sad that there is no more to come in the tv series. The comics are cool in their own right but, as some other people have posted, the limited content--esp. way reduced dialogue compared to tv format -- is a little disappionting. I'd never be able to just read one of these individual issues per month and feel still caught up in the story. I like the look of them and if they were more densely packed with Buffylike dialogue, i'd like them better.
You know what I really like? The recaps on here! I've read them all--way past where I actually am in the books themselves. Having them all in a row there let's me get a satisfying dose of the ongoing story--whoever is responsible for those, great job! And finally, I really enjoy reading the discussion posts. All these Buffy fans in one place, bringing up all different characters and events from throughout the Buffy timeline in an effort to solve the Twilight mystery, for example. It's really fun to read.
You know what I really like? The recaps on here! I've read them all--way past where I actually am in the books themselves. Having them all in a row there let's me get a satisfying dose of the ongoing story--whoever is responsible for those, great job! And finally, I really enjoy reading the discussion posts. All these Buffy fans in one place, bringing up all different characters and events from throughout the Buffy timeline in an effort to solve the Twilight mystery, for example. It's really fun to read.
AndrewCrossett
Satsu Otaku
I think a lot of people will appreciate season 8 more when it's finished, so they can just read the paperbacks straight through without having to wait a month between each issue. It will probably flow better for people who are used to the faster pace of the TV series. Plus, people won't get so bogged down in the weaker points of the season because it will just be a matter of reading further on.
Willow-Tree
Your Childhood Trauma
I agree, but the same could be said about Buffy. Or Angel, for that matter. There were definitely some bad episodes... just as there are comics. Though the series are definitely far superior.
Tasha
Dn'* letthespacebugsbite!
i've only read like half of season 8, and i don't know why i can't really get into them.
I prefer Angel ATF to be honest.
I prefer Angel ATF to be honest.
Tranquillity
Angel: ATF was awesome
I had some problems in the beginning, not really getting into the stories. Even had a hard time reading and understanding them.
Now I find myself liking it more and more. Think I also have getting used to reading comics again, which helps.
The slow pace is killing me though... you wait forever and when a new issue finally arrives you finish it in a few minutes.
It's quite frustrating actually.
/SK
Now I find myself liking it more and more. Think I also have getting used to reading comics again, which helps.
The slow pace is killing me though... you wait forever and when a new issue finally arrives you finish it in a few minutes.
It's quite frustrating actually.
/SK
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Carpe Spuffy!
Gosh, where do I even start? The good, the bad, and the ugly?
My overall thought is that I feel in S8 Joss has sold-out his characters and what Buffy originally was for a spectacular, ridiculous fantasy land that is a mere shadow of what Buffy was and should be. The comics have nothing of the "feel" of Buffy; they're not nearly as clever as the show was, the characters continue to both surprise and confuse me with with their almost constant adventures out of character, and the art seems to vary greatly in quality from issue to issue.
What have I loved? The plots are stronger than they've ever been, in my opinion, regarding the overall arcs. I think the direction the gang is going in is very interesting. Character wise, we're lucky if any development happens aside from whatever freak-show Dawn has turned into in any given issue.
I'm wondering when they're finally going to reveal who Twilight is, and I'm confused on why Spike hasn't showed up yet. The fans have voiced that they want him back in the comics, so I'm unsure why Joss is hesitant to bring back such a popular character (if even for a guest spot).
It's not that I'm against Buffy's story being told in the comic medium. I thought then and still do that it's a fantastic medium to explore the story in, I just feel that Joss is selling out to accommodate the general comic book reading crowd, making the story even more sensational and the plot more far-fetched as the story continues. For instance, what's up with pretty much everyone being brought back? It just seems like it's only for shock value.
Some character developments seem conveniently left out.
Why doesn't Buffy ever mention Spike? Why doesn't anyone? It's like he never existed. He was her best friend in S7. The only time he's mentioned is in the first issue, where Buffy alludes to missing the sex they had. This? This is all us Spuffies get?
Dawn still doesn't have a purpose or place in the group. She' still a bother, still makes stupid choices, and now it seems as though Joss had nothing else to do with her but make her Xander's love interest of the say. Bleh. Totally unbelievable. Incestuous, really. Dawn and Xander? Come on! And so tacky after that "moment" Xander and Buffy had under the tree with the hand-holding...
Willow? Why in the hell is she still with Kennedy?! If Joss chooses to make them the only couple that actually survives more than two seasons happy in the entire Buffyverse, I'll surely vomit.
Xander? He's still the comic relief, the guy who gets the girl who then gets killed. When will his story ever make front page?
And Buffy? She seems more detached than ever. We seem to have lost all her development in S6-7, about not wanting to die anymore, and about wanting to show the world to Dawn and all that. She's not romantically involved with anyone, hasn't made any new friends, and just seems powerless at this point.
What do I want to see happen next?
1. A Spuffy reunion (AT LEAST tell her he's alive!)
2. Twilight unmasked.
3. A purpose for the Scoobies. (This running away thing? Been there. Think 'Weight of the World." Joss needs a new mission for the Slayer and her Slayerettes.)
4. Xander gets a girlfriend who's not Dawn and whom doesn't die.
I know I sounds harsh, but part of being a fan is being a good critic.
Tranquillity
i want her to at least find out about Spike too!
Wishing Oceans
[No message]
Willow-Tree
Your Childhood Trauma
You have to understand that just because it's now in comic book form, the entire story can't change.
Of course Buffy is feeling detatched. Perhaps she is still reeling from Spike's "death", and prefers not to talk about him. I do agree that a reunion is in order, though.
Even though Spuffy is my main ship... I am really loving Buffy/Xander. It's so adorable. I don't mind Dander, though, as it's been a long time coming.
Of course Buffy is feeling detatched. Perhaps she is still reeling from Spike's "death", and prefers not to talk about him. I do agree that a reunion is in order, though.
Even though Spuffy is my main ship... I am really loving Buffy/Xander. It's so adorable. I don't mind Dander, though, as it's been a long time coming.
GrimsWatcher
Potential
I'm glad Spike isn't around, the last couple years of Buffy the TV show became the Spike show. I don't even know why Spike would go back to Buffy's group and hang out again......
Joan the Vampire Slayer
To help maybe? Besides, us Spike fans didn't really mind him being around a lot, but I understand your argument.