Thoughts/Feelings about Season 8
- Thread starter Tranquillity
- Start date
GrimsWatcher
Potential
Willlow Tree, maybe, but that story has been done to death, I'd hate to see Whedon recycle that relationship again. And it'd be pathetic of Spike to go back in an attempt to win over Buffy. I like Spike, but I'm enjoying the break from him as well.
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Carpe Spuffy!
Perhaps you misunderstand me. I don't want Spuffy back together, yet I believe they're an unstoppable team as friends. If they were to get back together, it'd be a long time coming. Yet, omitting Spike completely from the series after he'd become a main cast member and such a fan favorite seems contradictory to what Joss is trying to accomplish; pleasing the fans.
white avenger
Maybe it's too old for most of you to remember, but on "Gunsmoke," Marshall Dillon and Miss Kitty were never "together" during the entire 25 year run. They were just "more than" friends. Buffy and Spike could be the same.
Tranquillity
That'll put marzipan in your pie plate bingo
I agree completely. i'm not looking for a mushy, romantic reunion, but a short visit or even a mention would be nice. I'm a little scared they are going to make him be Twilight. I have no logical reason for thinking this, just irrational fears ::huh1::
Joan the Vampire Slayer
I fear that as well.
GrimsWatcher
Potential
Joan, I'm not sure it's ever been Whedon's main objective to please fans. If he was out to please everyone and do fan service, Tara and Anya would be revived, Kennedy would die a horrible death, Xander wouldn't have walked out on Anya at their wedding, etc.
I
InsaneMystic
hey, Xander walking out on Anya didn't displease me at all... *ducking away from the Xanya faction*
white avenger
white avenger
I hate the fact that there was over a year passed between the end of Season 7 and the beginning of Season 8. At the very least, we should have a couple of pages devoted to a flashback showing some sort of acknowledgment by the survivors of the sacrifices of their fallen comrades. It doesn't have to be morbid, but it should be a part of the story, as well as an occasional mention, beyond the Initiative's presence at the Sunnydale Crater, of what happened there. That single battle and its aftermath literally changed the world as Buffy knew it. For all that we ever see in Season 8, it was barely a skirmish.
How, exactly, is the new Slayer army organized? We know that there are posts in Cleveland, Scotland, Japan, Rio, and probably somewhere on the West Coast, so how were Buffy and her friends able to organize such a huge enterprise, plus train and arm several thousand girls? As far as the girls go, How were so many families convinced to allow their daughters to travel off to some remote corner of the world, possibly never to be seen again?
All of those details and more have contributed to making Season 8 what it currently is, and, for me at least, the knowledge of the whys and wherefores would enhanse my enjoyment of the series as it is being presented at the moment.
How, exactly, is the new Slayer army organized? We know that there are posts in Cleveland, Scotland, Japan, Rio, and probably somewhere on the West Coast, so how were Buffy and her friends able to organize such a huge enterprise, plus train and arm several thousand girls? As far as the girls go, How were so many families convinced to allow their daughters to travel off to some remote corner of the world, possibly never to be seen again?
All of those details and more have contributed to making Season 8 what it currently is, and, for me at least, the knowledge of the whys and wherefores would enhanse my enjoyment of the series as it is being presented at the moment.
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Carpe Spuffy!
Very true. I see your point...yet, I stick by my guns when I say that Buffy needs to be informed that Spike is alive. She'd want to know, regardless if they were involved or if he was around or not.
GrimsWatcher
Potential
Joan, I feel like Buffy does know Spike is alive, but we just didn't get to see her getting the message or how she reacted. I know that's frustrating for fans, but I guess they didn't feel it was important enough to cover it in the very limited number of pages they have to work with in a comic book. Or maybe they will still get to it for all I know. Does Buffy know Cordy died? We just have to assume and fill in the blanks.
I have my own big issues with season 8, mostly since issue 12 because I thought up until that point the comics were pretty terrific other than a few moments. I can relate to a lot of what you said a few posts back. Except Spike.
As far as Whedon selling out to relate to the comic book crowd, Whedon is a comic book fan himself, and he's taken a lot of his ideas from comic books and implemented them into the show. Dark Willow in season 6 I'm pretty sure came from an arc in an X Men comic, among other examples. But Whedon could tone it down I admit. I'm thinking (or hoping) he's only going this big with Buffy's world for season 8, and season 9 will be back down to a smaller scale. Like this is Whedon's one moment in the series to go huge with it.
I agree the comics are over the top, somewhat unrelatable now, because who can really relate to the idea of Buffy living in a castle? It's absurd. And like I said, hopefully it's just a season 8 concept and won't continue this path.
Also, I agree Buffy had development in seasons 6 and 7, now she's retracted, back to being what she was and hasn't seemed to grow up. It's annoying.
I have my own big issues with season 8, mostly since issue 12 because I thought up until that point the comics were pretty terrific other than a few moments. I can relate to a lot of what you said a few posts back. Except Spike.
As far as Whedon selling out to relate to the comic book crowd, Whedon is a comic book fan himself, and he's taken a lot of his ideas from comic books and implemented them into the show. Dark Willow in season 6 I'm pretty sure came from an arc in an X Men comic, among other examples. But Whedon could tone it down I admit. I'm thinking (or hoping) he's only going this big with Buffy's world for season 8, and season 9 will be back down to a smaller scale. Like this is Whedon's one moment in the series to go huge with it.
I agree the comics are over the top, somewhat unrelatable now, because who can really relate to the idea of Buffy living in a castle? It's absurd. And like I said, hopefully it's just a season 8 concept and won't continue this path.
Also, I agree Buffy had development in seasons 6 and 7, now she's retracted, back to being what she was and hasn't seemed to grow up. It's annoying.
Willow-Tree
Your Childhood Trauma
I don't think it's that fair to assume all of this when you aren't even sure she knows. If she knew about Spike, there would be a MUCH bigger reaction, I'm sure. And Xander would be at least pining over Cordy, even though they've been done for like... five years?
Ruminator
Townie
My feelings on Season 8 are pretty basic. I feel exactly the same about it as I do the show.... and that's a big problem.
Why? Cause we are now, what, 9 years removed (in universe time) from our first introduction of all this and it still feels the exact same. I mean, how many times are we gonna see Xander deal with a sense of uselessness before he stops feeling useless? How many times are we gonna see Buffy feel "all alone" before she stops feeling so alone? How many misogynistic bad guys are we gonna see before the writers stop using misogynistic bad guys?.... and so on. In years past, this stuff was fine, cause it was new and fresh, and certainly against the norm for TV at the time. Today, in comic book form, for an idea that is running on for years, it just feels repetitive.
What I am trying to say is that there seems to be very little forward momentum as far as characterization is concerned. And it feels like a lot of characterization decisions being made by the writers are being done more so for plot and thematic reasons (Xander/Dawn, Buffy/Satsu) than for any discernible character motivations. Normally, I am ok with such outcomes as I feel that themes are more important than characters, but the plot and tone being pushed by these character developments are so ridiculous as to be unworthy of such aspirations.
The real strange thing is that, much like the TV show, I actually enjoy what appears to be the main theme (the end of an era, magic in this case) and the plot they've tried to weave into it. The problem with the comic is that it feels, at times, almost choked by the back story of the show. Having Xander and Dawn together serves a useful friction point on the eve of an important battle, thus it works as a useful dramatic device. However, it is largely out of sorts given the history of the characters involved. Same with the Buffy/Satsu pairing. If these things were able to be stripped of context, I don't think people would be nearly as annoyed by them as some have been, but you can't remove the context and thus creates the displeasure with the comic.
As for Twilight specifically, I remain convinced his identity will end up being a complete swerve. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out it is someone we don't actually know at all. I could completely see the writers, in keeping with the theme of the outside world suddenly being unhappy with the magic world, that Twilight ends up being some obscure, never mentioned kid from Sunnydale so upset with Buffy that he sees the end of magic (and Slayers as well) as his justice for what happened. Why not? Makes as much sense as the goofy "Slayers out, Vamps in" nonsense.
I think a lot of how the comic ends up being viewed, once in complete form, is dependent upon the next two issues. It seems fairly certain, at this point, that by the end of the Retreat arc Twilights identity will be revealed and probably at least one major character will die. If this is well written, the comic may turn out alright in the end, if not, it will tank. Sadly, I think they've come to this make or break point with it.
Why? Cause we are now, what, 9 years removed (in universe time) from our first introduction of all this and it still feels the exact same. I mean, how many times are we gonna see Xander deal with a sense of uselessness before he stops feeling useless? How many times are we gonna see Buffy feel "all alone" before she stops feeling so alone? How many misogynistic bad guys are we gonna see before the writers stop using misogynistic bad guys?.... and so on. In years past, this stuff was fine, cause it was new and fresh, and certainly against the norm for TV at the time. Today, in comic book form, for an idea that is running on for years, it just feels repetitive.
What I am trying to say is that there seems to be very little forward momentum as far as characterization is concerned. And it feels like a lot of characterization decisions being made by the writers are being done more so for plot and thematic reasons (Xander/Dawn, Buffy/Satsu) than for any discernible character motivations. Normally, I am ok with such outcomes as I feel that themes are more important than characters, but the plot and tone being pushed by these character developments are so ridiculous as to be unworthy of such aspirations.
The real strange thing is that, much like the TV show, I actually enjoy what appears to be the main theme (the end of an era, magic in this case) and the plot they've tried to weave into it. The problem with the comic is that it feels, at times, almost choked by the back story of the show. Having Xander and Dawn together serves a useful friction point on the eve of an important battle, thus it works as a useful dramatic device. However, it is largely out of sorts given the history of the characters involved. Same with the Buffy/Satsu pairing. If these things were able to be stripped of context, I don't think people would be nearly as annoyed by them as some have been, but you can't remove the context and thus creates the displeasure with the comic.
As for Twilight specifically, I remain convinced his identity will end up being a complete swerve. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out it is someone we don't actually know at all. I could completely see the writers, in keeping with the theme of the outside world suddenly being unhappy with the magic world, that Twilight ends up being some obscure, never mentioned kid from Sunnydale so upset with Buffy that he sees the end of magic (and Slayers as well) as his justice for what happened. Why not? Makes as much sense as the goofy "Slayers out, Vamps in" nonsense.
I think a lot of how the comic ends up being viewed, once in complete form, is dependent upon the next two issues. It seems fairly certain, at this point, that by the end of the Retreat arc Twilights identity will be revealed and probably at least one major character will die. If this is well written, the comic may turn out alright in the end, if not, it will tank. Sadly, I think they've come to this make or break point with it.
Tranquillity
That'll put marzipan in your pie plate bingo
I was watching Normal Agin last night and for some reason I had the commentary on and in it The writer (Diego Guttierez (Sp??) said how Joss' writing mantra is 'don't give the audience what they want, give them what they need' and i said out loud to myself ('cos i was the only person in the room) "oh my god, that's what he's doing with season eight"
Think about it, so many of the things people wanted from season eight (Spike, Angel, Anya, Tara, explanations, back-ground information etc...) have not been addressed yet and don't look like being addressed any time soon. Instead we've gotten strange character developments and even stranger outcomes. Not sure I know why we need any of this, but still, it's food for thought . . .
Think about it, so many of the things people wanted from season eight (Spike, Angel, Anya, Tara, explanations, back-ground information etc...) have not been addressed yet and don't look like being addressed any time soon. Instead we've gotten strange character developments and even stranger outcomes. Not sure I know why we need any of this, but still, it's food for thought . . .
I agree. I believe people wanted S8 to tie loose ends from earlier seasons, instead it just moved the story and characters forwards to new developments, and fans can't take change. Not after years since S7 ended.
It's kinda like when S4 started. Everything changed. Fans didn't take change well.