Thoughts on Season 4

I thought Riley's inability to fit anywhere was kind of the point of his character in a way. I liked Riley a lot-he made me sad though. Poor guy.
 
May be it would have turned out different if someone else played the part. I think Marc Blucas who acted as Riley is a good actor but sometimes a different person can potray a character better. Example - Buffy played Kirsty Swanson from the film was in my opinion awful, but SMG made Buffy a great watchable character. It often happens that a wrongly casted person can ruin a good story. Another example was the film trilogy 'Back to the Future', originally Eric Stoltz was cast but he could not carry the part so they bought in Michael J Fox who made it a success, and this what I think happened with Riley.

I understand that there are those who like Riley and/or the Marc Blucas but it's just a personal opinion.
 
Errmmm..Minus Riley it's all good! :D

Like others have said, there are some great episodes. As a whole, however, it's probably my least favorite season.
 
Despite the fact that all I used to hear before I actually watch it, was that it's kinda lame and probably the least good, I enjoyed it.

I believe it is fresh and new. I miss Angel of course and I can see that he is in Buffy's life in some way. She can't see him of course but she mentions him or someone else does. Pangs is a great episode, Hush is fantastic, Primeval shows an ass-kicking Buffy and restless is great. Something blue is very funny although Buffy kissing Spike is you know...the way I see it.

Also it really matters to me that in The Yoko Factor Angel comes back to Sunnydale, just to apologise to Buffy. That was adorable and also it shows how much Buffy matters to Angel.

Adam is not the best villain ever of course, but Maggie Walsh is the typical evil genius who wants to change the world and does it in a very dangerous way.

By the way, Buffy looks really good with the white scientist robe and the glasses lol!

oh...and about riley...yeah they are sweet together,but Buffy doesn't really love him.She does care but it will be only in s5 that riley will realise that this isn't love.
 
If you really think bout it, S4 is the 2nd best.
 
E
Eleftheria
well actually the first 3 seasons are the best for me. They teach a lot and are a little more innocent. But season 4 is nice and fresh cause of the college and stuff :)
S4 is not my favourite season. The Initiative story arc is a bit dull and not that well written, in my opinion. I thought the basic idea was sound - it made sense that the government could have some kind of anti-demon organisation - but the Initiative wasn't very credible, and Adam was never really all that interesting. That said, I did love seeing an empowered Buffy take him apart in Primeval.
Also, Riley. I never got into him at all. Boy has all the charisma of a block of wood. I know that's harsh, but it's pretty much how I feel about him.
I'm also torn about Spike's presence in the season - he was a lot of fun, but the chip felt like a forced plot device to have him on the show in a non-villainous capacity.
Of course, there were still plenty of good things about the season. I liked Oz's departure in Wild at Heart (though it sucks that Seth Green decided to leave just when they actually had a story arc lined up for him), and I really liked Willow and Tara's relationship. It was very sweet, and I loved New Moon Rising.
The season also had quite a few quality stand alone episodes unrelated to the main arc, though I don't think I'm as enthused about all of them as many are. Something Blue is majorly overrated in my opinion. Hush is a bit overrated - it's very good, but there's no way it would ever get into my top 10 episodes. Restless is not overrated - it's absolutely awesome. The Faith two-parter is also great.
Overall, I really do like S4, but not as much as most of the other seasons (it's behind 2, 3, 5 and probably 6 as well).
 
To me,Season 4 is the where do we go now season. It's very expiremental,even ending with a dream episode. There's alot of pluses(Alot more humor,the introduction of spike and anya into the main cast) and i love restless(Despite how lame riley is generally you gotta admit if cowboy riley was the character youd love him).

But to me I think joss's problem was always that he started from a pretty awesome if limited metaphore in the creation of the buffy series:High school is hell and I thought the ending in season 3 was the perfect coda. Once you kinda took it away from that you had to try to find a new metaphore to go with. I think the high school is hell metaphore is also the reason why I enjoy season 6 so much,Its about the inability to grow up,and one of your main villians of the season warren pretty much never left high school. It just kinda felt like a high school season to me. I think losing angel,cordelia,and oz in the same season took alot out of them as did starting up angel. i think thats the main reason for the decline in quality in buffy in general,more focus seemed to be made on angel.

I think the first half of the seasons kinda fun then after hush it kinda gets meh,then towards the end it kinda picks up again. I dont think its the worst season ever,I enjoyed watching it I just dont think its nearly as good as what came before. Its a transitional season really.
 
It was a decent season to me. A little slow to pick up for my taste but it was good fun. The Iniative wasn't the best 'Big Bad' in the series(nor was Adam, even though I just think he was under developped), but it was still interesting. The ending of the season was pretty good. 'Yoko Factor', 'Primeval' and 'Restless'... I love these episodes!

Also like some others have said, losing Cordelia, Angel(and Oz along the way) didn't really help. They were part of the group we loved. And the new characters like Tara, Anya and Riley took a bit to get used to for me.

Overall though it wasn't the worst season(not like I hate any lol) for me.
 
It definitely has some great standalone eps, some of my favs actually, but that doesn't change the fact it has the lamest big bad ever.
 
i initially hated S4 and when i stared watching the season again I thought "oh wow I dont like this", but as it progressed I realized it is probably the most misunderstood season because there was so much change. Everything lead to this point and moved from this season and it was messy getting though it and thats why I can artistically appreciate it. Buffy begins to learn to really stand on her own not as the slayer, but as a young woman, Willow goes through the biggest transformation of them all, going thru immense heartbreak and then realizing that life can go on after Oz and with a woman. Xander begins to develop his first real relationship with Anya meanwhile she became the newest Scobby member. Giles goes though the process of starting a new life as the rest of the gang moves on (probably the story-line, although least represented one I could relate too.). and of course the biggest one of all Dawn. Although It's not my favorite season. Im glad it was there because I dont think the show could have gone on without it and I really felt I was in the mess of it because it mixed things up so much and made you feel like you were there.
 
I
InsaneMystic
Dawn wasn't until S5, though. ;)
Ah correct, I thought she was introduced at the very end of Restless, but it was Buffy v. Dracula at then end when we first meet Dawn. My bad! Thanks for the correction got my timeline all mixed up 🙂
 
Hm. It isn't my favorite season. I LOVE the episodes, but the overall season was pretty weak. I loved the Tillow and Xanya, but Riley and mopey Willow were really annoying. As was Cavewoman Buffy. I liked how light and fun it was, but it seemed less sentimental than other seasons. And the characters were all extra annoying IMO.

But, I loved having Spike there, although it was sad to lose Cordy. 😀

wait wait wait... you DIDN'T love Cave!Buffy? that's one opinion you don't get to hear often... C!B is usually called the only great thing about the otherwise meh "Beer Bad"!
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I thought C!Buffy was gross, unclassy, annoying, degrading, and just blahh. 😀
 
I
InsaneMystic
wait wait wait... you DIDN'T love Cave!Buffy? that's one opinion you don't get to hear often... C!B is usually called the only great thing about the otherwise meh "Beer Bad"!
I actually like it. There's not one season of Buffy I can honestly say I don't like. I loved all of the changes of the show & I was actually okay with Riley. Plus this season, we get more Anya, Spike & Harmony & we are introduced to Tara. The Willow/Oz/Tara episodes are great & I love Restless. So I really like this season alot. I am watching it right now 🙂
 
B
BillyidolwannaB
[No message]
There were things I loved about this season and things I didn't.

I missed the comaraderie that punctuated the first 3 seasons. I missed the library, the scoobie gang meeting there when there was a problem. I felt Buffy's isolation in this season so much more than in the first three, when Willow, Xander, Giles and Buffy were together in one place. I missed Cordelia. LOL

I thought HUSH was brilliant!

I am in the minority I know, but I loved Riley. I liked him with Buffy and I really thought he was her only chance at having a relationship that might have lasted.
 
I like S4. I think it's better than most people give it credit for.

Pros:
- Great standalone episodes. The generally quality of episodes was pretty high. We had Hush, This Year's Girl/Who Are You, Restless, Fear Itself. Something Blue is possibly the funniest Buffyverse episode there is ("Can I be blind too?")
- Spike, prior to his Badass Decay. He was still at his most awesome in the season, he began to show layers but still kept the entertainment factor. His speech at the end of "Doomed" is simply wonderful ("Let's get 'em, for... Christmas, and the safety of... puppies, yeah? Let's KILL something! Come on!") He fought with the good guys, but was still badass. He kinda lost it as a character for me after he fell in love with Buffy.
- Anya and Xanya. The funniest character afer Spike. We can all agree that she was a great addition to the show, there couldn't have been a better replacement for Cordelia. Her relationship with Xander was very entertaining and set the groundworks for a very sweet relationship in S5.
- The introduction of Tara and Tillow. We don't get a lot of her this season, but what we do get is brilliant. I don't think it is humanly possible to not like Tara. Her relationship with Willow was very sweet, I loved Oz and all but Tara and Willow were just amazing together.
- The return of Faith. She only got 20 episodes in Buffy overall, so we must savour each one, and these two were just wonderful. Great to see her again.
- Some very interesting character arcs, which came to a head in Restless.

Cons:
- The loss of Angel, Cordelia and Oz hurt - although I do think that their replacements were more than adequate, so it wasn't too noticeable.
- Unintresting Big Bad. I didn't hate Adam, he just didn't do much for me. He kinda suffered from coming a long line of very popular villains in Spike, Drusilla, Angelus, Faith and the Mayor, so his crappiness was more noticeable.
- Poor story arc. The Initiative was an OK idea, but implemented poorly. It was presented as an awful establishment, but to be honest it probably did a lot of good that wasn't accounted for. They even indirectly saved the world in giving Spike a chip. It felt kind of at odds to previous themes - Buffy had always been about rejecting the old order - quitting the council, using her own unusual methods to identify and kill vampires. Criticising a new system because the old method of "one girl with a pointy stick" was better felt kind of odd. Plus, it just wasn't that interesting to sustain a season-long arc.
- Riley and by extension Briley. God, I hate this guy. I hate with with a furious, vengeful passion. Every time this guy appeared on screen I just wanted to bash his stupid potato-shaped head in with a shovel. Gah, I hate Riley. And the whole Buffy/Riley relationship felt forced and a little bit pointless. It didn't really do anything except alienate Buffy from her friends. Boring and stupid. I hate this relationship more than Spuffy and Bangel combined, and that's saying something.
- "Beer Bad" and "Where the Wild Things Are". Bottom-of-the-barrell stuff. Luckily, this standard of episode was not common.
- No permanent meeting place. The show lacked focus without it. The scenes were all over the place - Buffy's dorm, Buffy's house, the classroom, the Initiative, Giles' flat, Xander's basement, Riley's frat house. It could've done with a Library/Magic Box equivalent.
- The scoobies begin to drift apart. Their interaction in early season is still like that of S1/2/3, but around the middle of the season, certainly by The Yoko Factor, they lacked that tight-knit closeness they once had. I missed the Scoobies being so close, and despite them apaprently reconciliating in Primeval, they never truly recovered.
- Introduction of Spike. Now I know that I've already listed this as a pro, but while I loved him in this season, looking long-term I think his introduction as a permanent cast member was a Bad Thing. He was entertaining this season but didn't really do much, and I think by S5 they didn't really know what to do with him, so he fell in love with Buffy to keep him occupied. Still entertaining, but by S6 I felt completely ruined his character. In hindsight and looking long-term I think I would have kept him out of the main cast, just occasionally guesting instead. Perhaps Faith would've been a better choice to fill his role. 😉

So, more cons that pros there, but I still loved it. There were some major problems with the season (Adam, the Initiative and Riley being the main ones), but I still found this season to be massively entertaining to watch and very rewatchable. My fourth-favourite season overall.
 
All in all I really liked season 4, though I think it suffered from the writers having to make large changes to the show to adapt to high school being over. The idea of Sunnydale being a quiet small town with a dark secret got contradicted as it now contained a huge university. Sunnydale almost magically became a bigger place and it seemed to keep growing each season after as well.

Like others have mentioned, the loss of a meeting place such as the library also hurt as the show suddenly lacked that piece of consistency for the scoobies to meet. The increasing separation between the characters also hurt, though I could completely understand why they did as it was a fairly good representation of high school friends growing apart as they get older.
 
I don't seem to be able to edit my previous post to add in a new thought I had so I hope it's okay if I make two posts in a row in this thread. I think my biggest complaint about season 4 is that the writers didn't interweave the supernatural world Buffy lived in with college like they were able to do with high school in the previous three seasons. While I believe they certainly tried for roughly the first half of the season or so (and did a great job in a few episodes), eventually it felt like they just gave up and focused on The Initiative. To me, this was the first season where it really started to feel like Buffy's world and the real world were totally separate entities.

What I probably loved the most about the first 3 seasons is that so much of what happened was such a masterful allegory to life in high school. Even some of the most far out, supernatural occurrences were brilliantly tied in to real-world problems that people had to go through as they grew up. Being in high school when I first started watching, this was probably the single most important part of the show that got me to relate to the characters and addicted to Buffy in the first place.

In season 4 on the other hand, I felt that the writers did a much poorer job in tying in the challenges and growing pains of college to Buffy's life. The increasing presence of alcohol in social activities and the pressure to drink for example I feel were terribly represented in a very sophomoric manner that grossly oversimplified it. The only part I felt they did a really good job on was the nervousness and fear associated with starting freshman year and getting used to life away from home. Beyond that, rather than deeply tying in life in college to the show like they did with high school, it felt like the writers were largely just running through very broad stereotypes about college life just to provide a loose backdrop for the supernatural world and once the Adam story arc really started to take off, it got even less important.

While I could really relate my own high school experience to Sunnydale High (minus vamps and whatnot), I regret to say that UC Sunnydale had almost nothing in common with my own freshman experience.
 
a masterful allegory to life in high school
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I agree with this. Would you be up to name a few and explain why they were allegories to you?
 
I'm going to agree with earlier posters, S4 had some great standalones (I LOVE Something Blue), but since it also had the lamest villain, it had some truly yawn-worthy episodes, and we lost Cordy, Oz, & Angel it tends to get remembered as the red-headed stepchild season. The biggest problem seemed to be the writers weren't quite sure what to do now that high school was over.

It does bring back Spike (Squee!) and Anya (SQUEE!) so I can't get down on it too much, but I still tend to enjoy seasons 2, 3, 5, and 6 more than I enjoyed 4.
 
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