wickedtiger86
Scooby
Wasn't sure where to post this but I definitely want this to be a purely Spuffy thread. Don't want a shipping war or anything.
I just want to sort out my feelings about Spuffy. Which is easier to do if you're trying to explain to someone else. Plus maybe you guys can give me some insight into my own thoughts because people around here seem to be good at doing that.
I love to see Spike and Buffy together. I love that Spike fell in love with her. I love all the exploration of the idea that William has always been different from other vampires.
Lately I've been seeing a lot of things that almost make me feel guilty, for a second, for liking Spike and for liking this pairing. Like there is something wrong with the way I view relationships or the way I even view myself.
I guess the easiest way to go about this is to go season by season.
Season two for these two pretty much begins the first time that Spike sees Buffy. He is obviously instantly attracted to her. This makes me want to see his reactions the first time he saw the other slayers. He didn't have the same reaction to Kendra at all. She was barely even a blip on his radar. So was that a turning point for him, to feel attraction to a slayer? I don't know.
It's obvious from early on that Spike is different from other vampires because of how devoted he is to Dru. And it's furthered by the fact that he was willing to partner up with Buffy to save the world. I don't think any other vampire in history has done that.
Season three hardly counts except that Spike shows that he is fairly awesome at reading people which is a quality that comes up very often for his character.
Season four is all about bringing him down and making him have to deal with the fact that he is basically a caged animal. I feel that if he really wanted to, he could have found a way to get that chip out in a day. The guy went out and GOT HIS SOUL. He could have totally gotten that chip out, one way or another. Way before he tried to in season five.
The other thing that sticks out in season four for me is at the end of Something Blue. Spike takes much longer to look disgusted than Buffy does. Which I always found interesting. 😀
Then in season five, he realizes that he's in love with her. I do recognize that at this point he's not exhibiting traits of selfless or even healthy attachment to Buffy. Shrine and mannequin? That is until! He gets the Buffybot. Also completely wrong but! It's through his experience with the Bot that he realizes that any replacement for Buffy simply isn't enough. Then he lets himself get nearly beaten to death, to keep a secret that if let out, would hurt Buffy.
From this point on he's so much more. He starts growing and changing, which people CAN do. I've done it. He starts genuinely helping her, without the guise of asking for money. He's there to support her, whatever she chooses to do. And after The Gift, he stays in Sunnydale and takes care of Dawn. Because he promised. Is there another vampire that would so this without a soul? I think at this point the chip becomes slightly irrelevant. Even a regular vamp with a chip in his head wouldn't do what he did.
Then season six. Oh man. This takes two characters, one who has done the ultimate sacrifice, who is a champion and another who has all the potential to be one as well, and rips them both to shreds. All over the place, there are arguments against Spike in this season and the defense is always, he didn't have a soul.
But Buffy did. And I can't shake the idea that if she hadn't been using him, if she hadn't told him that he was just convenient, that their entire relationship could have gone differently. Up until the end of OMWF they were actually friends.
Someone on the boards here said that Spike is always talking about bringing Buffy into the darkness with him when in actuality he was being brought into the light. I really loved that and wish I could remember to credit them . . .
Anyway, Buffy was easily just as abusive as Spike in that relationship. So in effect, they used each other. They took what they needed from each other at that time. And it was disastrous and well, call me crazy, but a little bit beautiful. I mean beautiful in the way of perfect despair.
We watched a great hero fall. Someone who died to save the world turned into . . . whoever she was in season six. She hit her ultimate low. And Spike went with her. Told her to put it all on him. . .
Then of course. The bathroom scene needs mentioned. I don't defend his actions but, at the same time, can slightly understand where he was coming from. Buffy went the lowest she could go when she beat him in that alley. And he went as low as he could go . . .in that bathroom. But for me, the important thing here, is that he stopped. Some men with souls don't. And he was utterly horrified by his actions.
So horrified he went and got a soul. He saw what the soul did to a vampire. He saw the suffering and knew that that was what was waiting for him. And he took it, so Buffy could have the man she deserved. And he did that, after she beat him to a pulp.
Then season seven. I guess there is a lot of debate over whether or not Buffy loved Spike. So much debate that I began to wonder myself whether or not she loved him. And that is the main reason for this post. I've always thought that she did and then I started doubting myself.
The main thing is that she didn't automatically run to him when she learned he had a soul. Is that supposed to mean that she didn't love him?
He had literally seen the absolute worst of her. They had spent a year abusing each other. I'm very glad that they didn't simply get back together. They had a lot of issues to work through and I think that they did. And after much thought, I do think that she loved him.
It's not in a completely obvious way but I do think she did. She went out of her way to show him that she thought he was a good man. She would have let him kill Principal Wood. Which is a main point with me. Buffy does not take human life lightly AT ALL. But she would have let that happen.
The moment though, that I really believed, is when she rescues him. That look in her eyes when she sees that he realizes it's her. . . And the way she helps him walk out. There is a lot of tenderness there. The love she has for him at this point, isn't the all consuming passion we've seen from them before but it's so much more sustainable and real.
And then obviously, Touched, and End of Days has great moments. I've never really questioned Spike's love for Buffy, and I don't think I ever will, but if I had, his speech in Touched would have ended that.
And Buffy, she comes so close to admitting that she does feel something deep and real when she admits that she was there with him. It's a huge step for her. She was having so much trouble wondering if she even could feel. And I'm glad that at the end of it he was the one to help her see that she could feel something romantically again.
Wow. I feel a lot better now. I no longer feel like I'm less of a person for liking this pairing. Or for liking Spike. He's an amazing character.
Sorry for the huge post.
I just want to sort out my feelings about Spuffy. Which is easier to do if you're trying to explain to someone else. Plus maybe you guys can give me some insight into my own thoughts because people around here seem to be good at doing that.
I love to see Spike and Buffy together. I love that Spike fell in love with her. I love all the exploration of the idea that William has always been different from other vampires.
Lately I've been seeing a lot of things that almost make me feel guilty, for a second, for liking Spike and for liking this pairing. Like there is something wrong with the way I view relationships or the way I even view myself.
I guess the easiest way to go about this is to go season by season.
Season two for these two pretty much begins the first time that Spike sees Buffy. He is obviously instantly attracted to her. This makes me want to see his reactions the first time he saw the other slayers. He didn't have the same reaction to Kendra at all. She was barely even a blip on his radar. So was that a turning point for him, to feel attraction to a slayer? I don't know.
It's obvious from early on that Spike is different from other vampires because of how devoted he is to Dru. And it's furthered by the fact that he was willing to partner up with Buffy to save the world. I don't think any other vampire in history has done that.
Season three hardly counts except that Spike shows that he is fairly awesome at reading people which is a quality that comes up very often for his character.
Season four is all about bringing him down and making him have to deal with the fact that he is basically a caged animal. I feel that if he really wanted to, he could have found a way to get that chip out in a day. The guy went out and GOT HIS SOUL. He could have totally gotten that chip out, one way or another. Way before he tried to in season five.
The other thing that sticks out in season four for me is at the end of Something Blue. Spike takes much longer to look disgusted than Buffy does. Which I always found interesting. 😀
Then in season five, he realizes that he's in love with her. I do recognize that at this point he's not exhibiting traits of selfless or even healthy attachment to Buffy. Shrine and mannequin? That is until! He gets the Buffybot. Also completely wrong but! It's through his experience with the Bot that he realizes that any replacement for Buffy simply isn't enough. Then he lets himself get nearly beaten to death, to keep a secret that if let out, would hurt Buffy.
From this point on he's so much more. He starts growing and changing, which people CAN do. I've done it. He starts genuinely helping her, without the guise of asking for money. He's there to support her, whatever she chooses to do. And after The Gift, he stays in Sunnydale and takes care of Dawn. Because he promised. Is there another vampire that would so this without a soul? I think at this point the chip becomes slightly irrelevant. Even a regular vamp with a chip in his head wouldn't do what he did.
Then season six. Oh man. This takes two characters, one who has done the ultimate sacrifice, who is a champion and another who has all the potential to be one as well, and rips them both to shreds. All over the place, there are arguments against Spike in this season and the defense is always, he didn't have a soul.
But Buffy did. And I can't shake the idea that if she hadn't been using him, if she hadn't told him that he was just convenient, that their entire relationship could have gone differently. Up until the end of OMWF they were actually friends.
Someone on the boards here said that Spike is always talking about bringing Buffy into the darkness with him when in actuality he was being brought into the light. I really loved that and wish I could remember to credit them . . .
Anyway, Buffy was easily just as abusive as Spike in that relationship. So in effect, they used each other. They took what they needed from each other at that time. And it was disastrous and well, call me crazy, but a little bit beautiful. I mean beautiful in the way of perfect despair.
We watched a great hero fall. Someone who died to save the world turned into . . . whoever she was in season six. She hit her ultimate low. And Spike went with her. Told her to put it all on him. . .
Then of course. The bathroom scene needs mentioned. I don't defend his actions but, at the same time, can slightly understand where he was coming from. Buffy went the lowest she could go when she beat him in that alley. And he went as low as he could go . . .in that bathroom. But for me, the important thing here, is that he stopped. Some men with souls don't. And he was utterly horrified by his actions.
So horrified he went and got a soul. He saw what the soul did to a vampire. He saw the suffering and knew that that was what was waiting for him. And he took it, so Buffy could have the man she deserved. And he did that, after she beat him to a pulp.
Then season seven. I guess there is a lot of debate over whether or not Buffy loved Spike. So much debate that I began to wonder myself whether or not she loved him. And that is the main reason for this post. I've always thought that she did and then I started doubting myself.
The main thing is that she didn't automatically run to him when she learned he had a soul. Is that supposed to mean that she didn't love him?
He had literally seen the absolute worst of her. They had spent a year abusing each other. I'm very glad that they didn't simply get back together. They had a lot of issues to work through and I think that they did. And after much thought, I do think that she loved him.
It's not in a completely obvious way but I do think she did. She went out of her way to show him that she thought he was a good man. She would have let him kill Principal Wood. Which is a main point with me. Buffy does not take human life lightly AT ALL. But she would have let that happen.
The moment though, that I really believed, is when she rescues him. That look in her eyes when she sees that he realizes it's her. . . And the way she helps him walk out. There is a lot of tenderness there. The love she has for him at this point, isn't the all consuming passion we've seen from them before but it's so much more sustainable and real.
And then obviously, Touched, and End of Days has great moments. I've never really questioned Spike's love for Buffy, and I don't think I ever will, but if I had, his speech in Touched would have ended that.
And Buffy, she comes so close to admitting that she does feel something deep and real when she admits that she was there with him. It's a huge step for her. She was having so much trouble wondering if she even could feel. And I'm glad that at the end of it he was the one to help her see that she could feel something romantically again.
Wow. I feel a lot better now. I no longer feel like I'm less of a person for liking this pairing. Or for liking Spike. He's an amazing character.
Sorry for the huge post.
S
sisterofmercy
Great post, I love your way of looking at Spike's development
S
StarSlayer
:heart:
