DeadlyDuo
Scooby
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2016
- Messages
- 9,611
- Age
- 35
In the clip below, there is an interesting discussion between two characters played by James Marsters and Lisa Kudrow.
LK's character Denise makes a remark about another man's ass which JM's character John calls her out on, asking her why she has to be "so vulgar about men, like they're pieces of meat?" Denise's response is to make a jibe about John's "flat ass". John then retorts that's why she's not married and says that "women act like men then they complain men don't want them". Denise then replies how she deserves "the best" and that "he's out there. He's just with all the wrong women" before going on a rant about how, after "centuries" of men looking at women's tits and pinching their ass instead of looking at their eyes and shaking their hand, she has the "divine right" to stare at a man's backside with "vulgar, cheap appreciation" if she wants to. Her female friend who is the partner of John, agrees with her.
In the age of the #MeToo movement and pro-feminism media, is Denise right to objectify men that way because she's a woman and thus has the "divine right" to do so since men were objectifying women first? Is John being hypocritical at expressing discomfort about Denise's objectification of men because he is a man? The clip seems to favour Denise's viewpoint. However, had the genders been reversed and John was the one making a remark about a woman's breasts and Denise called him out on it and then he made a remark about Denise's breasts, he would still be seen as in the wrong.
Are men now being deliberately portrayed in media as the lesser of the sexes in comparison to women, all in the name of "feminism"? In Doctor Who we now have a female Doctor and a "teaser" trailer showed the new doctor "breaking the glass ceiling" with the tagline "It's about time". Now for me, this is not only drawing attention to the Doctor's gender as a main focus point of the character rather than her just being a woman, but it also has an air of criticism of the Doctor being a male up to this point (despite David Tennant and Matt Smith being considered some of the best Doctors. Capaldi's Doctor arguably suffered from being preceded by Matt Smith, who stood his own after being preceded by David Tennant. Clara was also a millstone around Capaldi and Smith's Doctors' necks).
There are also calls for a female Bond. Is "feminism" attacking what are essentially cultural male characters and trying to push an aggressive agenda against men of how women are "superior" to them and thus cultural male heroes should be turned female because women are now more important than men?
I believe "modern feminism" is different from actual feminism and is starting to verge on the side of being less about equality and more about superiority of women over men. The kerfuffle there was over the Oscars best director category being all male instead of having female nominees illustrates this. The nomination should be over the work itself, not whether the director is male or female. "Modern feminists" claim women are being excluded from things like that because of their gender, yet they're willing to exclude men because of their gender in order to make space for a woman. It's hypocritical.
There are some things that still need to be fought in the name of actual feminism such as the gender pay gap, however it seems at the minute that all the calls of feminism this, that and the other, are all superficial and have no actual purpose other than proclaiming "look how feminist we are being!". Women are still being treated as commodities, the only shift being that instead of being used as an example of "sex sells", slapping the tag of "feminism" on a product makes it easier to sell.
Back to the clip above, I think it is John who has the valid viewpoint and that Denise is in the wrong to think she has the "divine right" to objectify men because men have done it to women for "centuries" thus it's now women's turn to get back at men aka "feminism". Denise is objectifying an individual because he is a man. That man may not have objectified a woman in his life yet he is receiving such treatment because of his gender, not because he "deserves" it.
Likewise with the Oscars best director category. They were saying a male director should've been snubbed so the female director could have the nominee spot, yet that would've been discriminating against the individual based on his gender, not a victory for "feminism".
What are your thoughts? Who do you think was right in the clip?
LK's character Denise makes a remark about another man's ass which JM's character John calls her out on, asking her why she has to be "so vulgar about men, like they're pieces of meat?" Denise's response is to make a jibe about John's "flat ass". John then retorts that's why she's not married and says that "women act like men then they complain men don't want them". Denise then replies how she deserves "the best" and that "he's out there. He's just with all the wrong women" before going on a rant about how, after "centuries" of men looking at women's tits and pinching their ass instead of looking at their eyes and shaking their hand, she has the "divine right" to stare at a man's backside with "vulgar, cheap appreciation" if she wants to. Her female friend who is the partner of John, agrees with her.
In the age of the #MeToo movement and pro-feminism media, is Denise right to objectify men that way because she's a woman and thus has the "divine right" to do so since men were objectifying women first? Is John being hypocritical at expressing discomfort about Denise's objectification of men because he is a man? The clip seems to favour Denise's viewpoint. However, had the genders been reversed and John was the one making a remark about a woman's breasts and Denise called him out on it and then he made a remark about Denise's breasts, he would still be seen as in the wrong.
Are men now being deliberately portrayed in media as the lesser of the sexes in comparison to women, all in the name of "feminism"? In Doctor Who we now have a female Doctor and a "teaser" trailer showed the new doctor "breaking the glass ceiling" with the tagline "It's about time". Now for me, this is not only drawing attention to the Doctor's gender as a main focus point of the character rather than her just being a woman, but it also has an air of criticism of the Doctor being a male up to this point (despite David Tennant and Matt Smith being considered some of the best Doctors. Capaldi's Doctor arguably suffered from being preceded by Matt Smith, who stood his own after being preceded by David Tennant. Clara was also a millstone around Capaldi and Smith's Doctors' necks).
There are also calls for a female Bond. Is "feminism" attacking what are essentially cultural male characters and trying to push an aggressive agenda against men of how women are "superior" to them and thus cultural male heroes should be turned female because women are now more important than men?
I believe "modern feminism" is different from actual feminism and is starting to verge on the side of being less about equality and more about superiority of women over men. The kerfuffle there was over the Oscars best director category being all male instead of having female nominees illustrates this. The nomination should be over the work itself, not whether the director is male or female. "Modern feminists" claim women are being excluded from things like that because of their gender, yet they're willing to exclude men because of their gender in order to make space for a woman. It's hypocritical.
There are some things that still need to be fought in the name of actual feminism such as the gender pay gap, however it seems at the minute that all the calls of feminism this, that and the other, are all superficial and have no actual purpose other than proclaiming "look how feminist we are being!". Women are still being treated as commodities, the only shift being that instead of being used as an example of "sex sells", slapping the tag of "feminism" on a product makes it easier to sell.
Back to the clip above, I think it is John who has the valid viewpoint and that Denise is in the wrong to think she has the "divine right" to objectify men because men have done it to women for "centuries" thus it's now women's turn to get back at men aka "feminism". Denise is objectifying an individual because he is a man. That man may not have objectified a woman in his life yet he is receiving such treatment because of his gender, not because he "deserves" it.
Likewise with the Oscars best director category. They were saying a male director should've been snubbed so the female director could have the nominee spot, yet that would've been discriminating against the individual based on his gender, not a victory for "feminism".
What are your thoughts? Who do you think was right in the clip?
