Time.. What is it?

[Schillaci]

Time is defined by past, present and future..

Nothing exists in the past, it has already happened. Nothing exists in the future, it has not happened yet. Nothing happens in the present, it is just a bridge between the past and the future. And since there is no such thing as nothing, then obviously there can't be a bridge between nothing! Therefore the present doesn't exist!

Ahhhhhh

Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
You fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way
Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town
Waiting for someone or something to show you the way

Tired of lying in the sunshine
Staying home to watch the rain
And you are young and life is long
And there is time to kill today
And then one day you find
Ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run
You missed the starting gun

And you run, and you run to catch up with the sun, but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death

Every year is getting shorter
Never seem to find the time
Plans that either come to nought
Or half a page of scribbled lines
Hanging on in quiet desparation is the English way
The time is gone
The song is over
Thought I'd something more to say

Home, home again
I like to be here when I can
When I come home cold and tired
It's good to warm my bones beside the fire
Far away across the field
The tolling of the iron bell
Calls the faithful to their knees
To hear the softly spoken magic spells

 

[teentitan]

Is the opening para a quote (if so who) or a personal thought of yours?
And if you are looking at a couple of Floyd songs to help you figure out what time is I'd suggest maybe you look for a more scholarly influence.
Or if you were just putting down a random thought never mind.

 

[killerdwarf]

I read Stephen Hawking's "A Brief History of Time" about 5 years ago...unfortunately, all I remember is that it gave me a massive headache. Actually, I was doing OK until he got to string theory...then bloooey!

Oh, yeah...I do remember time is NOT a constant, it is variable...other than that, I'm done.

 

[Schillaci]

Is the opening para a quote (if so who) or a personal thought of yours?
And if you are looking at a couple of Floyd songs to help you figure out what time is I'd suggest maybe you look for a more scholarly influence.
Or if you were just putting down a random thought never mind.

It's not a quote. I was just listening to the genius that is Pink Floyd, I wasn't suggesting that Time, is in fact a Pink Floyd song, and nothing more.

I read Stephen Hawking's "A Brief History of Time" about 5 years ago...unfortunately, all I remember is that it gave me a massive headache. Actually, I was doing OK until he got to string theory...then bloooey!

Oh, yeah...I do remember time is NOT a constant, it is variable...other than that, I'm done.

Ah, the magical properties contained within the pages of "A Brief History of Time" are not to be scoffed at. You got a headache reading it? I got a headache buying it. Well, lets just say, when you're in a quaint little book shop with lots of nooks and crannys, mind that step!

 

[Mr. Pointy]

Ah! It's a Floyd song. No wonder I didn't recognise it - I've never been a fan of theirs.

I prefer Mr Bowie's songly take on time from his Aladdin Sane album. I won't post the full lyrics, on account of there being slight rudery involved 🙂 But you can read them Here

It starts like this

Time - He's waiting in the wings
He speaks of senseless things
His script is you and me boys...

...and carries on in full on Brel/Brecht mode..."nice!" People who haven't seen the Fast Show may not appreciate that last bit 🙂

 

[arabella]

First of all, uggg to whoever mentioned string theory--just thinking about that has made me stop wearing a watch.
Time is merely the creation of man, a variable as previously suggested. It is culturally relative in its conception. The two most basic views of time are the western world's monochronic view of time, and the non-western world's (however not quite eastern world's) polychronic time.
Monochronic time sucks. It is definite and sequential and measurable. It is time as you know it. Polychronic time is the opposite, essentially non-exatant non-measuable time. Not sequential but simultaneous in nature.
Time is just how we organize ourselves. It is stupid and meaningless and making me bitter that I have a 9am appointment with a woman who definetly is unaware that 9am holds any meaning in her world. Stupid stupid time.

This rant has been brought to you by the letter C and the number 4.

 

[Schillaci]

Prof. Fiver here!

This just in: String theory is dumb!


Show me a string an' I'll hang ye with it!

Physicists have been galloping off in the wrong direction for years.
This is my take on String Theory.

Say, you ask a man to referee a season of football games. He's never done it before, so he's venturing on new ground. Unfortunately, he doesn't know all the rules, and the rules he does know, he thinks are silly. So, he decides, he'll make up his own set, some of which do actually mirror the originals. He officiates over a couple of games, nobody notices that he's really just bluffing. After a while he will be caught out. His rules will be proven as false. He should have stuck to the original guidelines and worked with them, instead of trying to create completely new laws. Laws that don't entirely fit into the game of football.

Edit: I made up the coolest word to describe or define String Theory. At least I thought it was cool.

String Theory is an Incorrectialism!

 

[teentitan]

You are correct in publicly stating the genius of Pink Floyd. Kudos.
So seeing as how your opening thread is your quote I have a question for you to consider...
If the present is what makes the past and fills the void of the future therefore the present is not a bridge over nothing but a constant motion that creates more present and past? So if you accept the present as constant motion then "nothing" cannot be part of the process in linking the past and the future.

 

[goldenboy]

Monochronic time is at least partly cos of the Judeo-Christian tradition, right? Monotheism, waiting on a messiah, spreading the word, the endtimes...

Seems like it would be harder for someone steeped in a pure polychronic culture to wrap their brain around a monochronic culture. Westerners can still see multiple, cyclical time patterns everywhere in nature. Dunno.

Monochronic time does seem like it would be more stressful and random in a way...especially if the religious component is removed.

 

[arabella]

I had never considered the religious influence on the conceptualization of time. it is not an entirely off base hypothesis as the real purpose of organized religion is control and power. Time is merely a method of control right? A way to make individuals conform to a larger power's will.
On a religious level, making individual celebrate stupid holidays and attend meetings to pay homage and give money to people that are in power. Time is a distractor. It says do what I want you to do, do what you should do, not what you wish to do. Time is rules. Time is order. Chaos is prettier, more beautiful. Untainted by human hands. Time and money and power all go together. Its rules. I hate rules. Think for yourself, do what you want, not what you think you are supposed to do.
And fiver...heck yes : ) lol

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Time moves forward because the universe is expanding, And I read an article the other day on that string thingy, didn't understand most of it but they were saying something like they had found one(A string).

 

[Tucker's Cousin]

I've done a lot of thinking on this thread and these lyrics seem to express my take on the concept:

This here's a tale for all the fellas
Try to do what those ladies tell us
Get shot down cause you're over zealous
Play hard to get an females get jealous
Ok smartie, go to a party
Girls are stancin the crowd is showin body
A chick walks by you wish you could sex her
But you're standin on the wall like you was Poindexter
Next days function, high class luncheon
Food is served and you're stone cold munchin'
Music comes on, people start to dance
But then you ate so much you nearly split your pants
A girl starts walkin, guys start gawkin'
Sits down next to you and starts talkin'
Says she wanna dance cus she likes the groove
So come on fatso and just bust a move

You're on a mission and you're wishin'
someone could cure you're lonely condition
You're lookin for love in all the wrong places
Not fine girls just ugly faces
From frustration first inclination
Is to become a monk and leave the situation
But every dark tunnel has a lighter hope
So don't hang yourself with a celibate rope
New movie's showin... so you're goin
Could care less about the five you're blowin
Theatre gets dark just to start the show
When you spot a fine woman sittin in the front row
She's dressed in yellow, she says "Hello,
Come sit next to me you fine fellow"
You run over there without a second to loose
And what comes next, hey bust a move

If you want it baby you've got it (repeat)
Just bust a move

In the city ladies look pretty
Guys tell jokes so they can seem witty
Tell a funny joke just to get some play
Then you try to make a move and she says "no way"
Girls a fakin' ... goodness sakin'
They want a man who brings home the bacon
Got no money and you got no car
Then you got no woman and there you are
Some girls are sophistic... materialistic
Looking for a man makes them opportunistic
They're lyin on the beach perpetratin a tan
So that a brother with money can be their man
So on the beach you're strollin'... real high-rollin'
Everything you have is your's and not stolen
A girl runs up with somethin to prove
So don't just stand there, bust a move

(break down)

Your best friend Harry has a brother Larry
In five days from now he's gonna marry
He's hopin you can make it there if you can
'Cause in the ceremony you'll be the best man
You say "neato"... check your libido
And roll to the church in your new tuxedo
The bride walks down just to start the wedding
And there's one more girl you won't be getting
So you start thinkin, then you start blinkin
A bride maid looks and thinks that you're winkin
She thinks you're kinda cute so she winks back
And now you're feelin really fine cus the girl is stacked
Reception's jumpin, bass is pumpin
Look at the girl and your heart starts thumpin
Says she wants to dance to a different groove
Now you know what to do g, bust a move

Yep, that pretty much sums it up.

 

[Schillaci]

So seeing as how your opening thread is your quote I have a question for you to consider...
If the present is what makes the past and fills the void of the future therefore the present is not a bridge over nothing but a constant motion that creates more present and past? So if you accept the present as constant motion then "nothing" cannot be part of the process in linking the past and the future.

My original post was tongue in cheek, I was just seeing if anybody was awake.

Is time constant no matter where you are in the universe? I mean, is gravity directly related to time? Say I lived on a planet with a greater or weaker gravitational "pull" would I age slower, faster, the same?

I had never considered the religious influence on the conceptualization of time. it is not an entirely off base hypothesis as the real purpose of organized religion is control and power. Time is merely a method of control right? A way to make individuals conform to a larger power's will.
On a religious level, making individual celebrate stupid holidays and attend meetings to pay homage and give money to people that are in power. Time is a distractor. It says do what I want you to do, do what you should do, not what you wish to do. Time is rules. Time is order. Chaos is prettier, more beautiful. Untainted by human hands. Time and money and power all go together. Its rules. I hate rules. Think for yourself, do what you want, not what you think you are supposed to do.
And fiver...heck yes : ) lol

Oh my gosh. Ditch your boyfriend! I'm proposing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!That you avoid driving yourself and instead use public transport!!!!!!!!!!!!

Time moves forward because the universe is expanding, And I read an article the other day on that string thingy, didn't understand most of it but they were saying something like they had found one(A string).

Was the article published on April 1st? 😉

Truth be told I find strings all the time, damn cheap jeans...

I have, and always will, use the term universe as the description of ALL. And in that sense it cannot be expanded, compacted, whatever. Properties within the universe can be expandy all they want. The universe as a thing, cannot. I mean, where the hell would it be expanding into? Another universe? Any notion of multiverses and other such science fiction bored me as a kid..it still does.

 

[goldenboy]

I had never considered the religious influence on the conceptualization of time. it is not an entirely off base hypothesis as the real purpose of organized religion is control and power. Time is merely a method of control right? A way to make individuals conform to a larger power's will.

Yeah. This is what I was thinkin of:

"One way or the other, the onset of Christianity had a significant influence on the re-construction of ideas about time. Here we arrive at another historical form of understanding time, which is a linear awareness of time with a "˜closed' future. Unlike antiquity, which is attributed with maintaining a cyclical concept of historical time, the middle ages are characterised by a finalistic conception of movement from creation to the end of the world. The re-construction of the structure of temporal ideas in medieval Europe is connected with the transition from paganism to Christianity, in which the interpretation of time was based on three key moments representing the beginning (creation), culmination (the coming of Christ and death on the cross), and the end (the last judgement). Owing to these "˜strategic points', historical time is straightened, and becomes vectorial, linear and irreversible [Gurevi࣠1978: 87]. Historians dealing with these periods usually point out that through the influence of Christianity the archaic relationship to time was not so much uprooted as it was shifted into the background, and thus during the middle ages two concepts existed alongside one another: the cyclical time of recurring natural phenomena and agricultural labour, and linear time, bound up in Christian religious tradition.

The idea of a "˜closed' future is also connected with the Judeo-Christian religious tradition, as it is connected with eschatological visions of the end of the world and history. The eschatological viewpoint influenced European thought for a very long time, became the source of inspiration for the philosophy of history and significantly stimulated reflections on the meaning of history. From the time of the Renaissance, however, secularising tendencies began to express themselves in eschatological thought. These came to a peak during the Enlightenment, which substituted the prospect of salvation with the idea of progress (the logical outcome of this secularising tendency was Marxism, in which the end of history assumed the form of a classless society)."

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache...osed+future&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&ie=UTF-8

Was just remembering all the end times cults throughout European and American history as well...

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Time is a necessity for any living being, not necessarily in the terms we use, but all societies need some form of time, be it a Clock, the Sun or even seasonal timing, everything is run by 'Time'.
Time is a relative constant in that it exists, but is perceived differently by every form of life, from the human to the animal to the insect..and so on.
It may have recieved a more definitive basis for definition due to Religion, but in some form or another, time has been the constant companion of every living thing....i believe

 

[arabella]

Time is a necessity for any living being, not necessarily in the terms we use, but all societies need some form of time, be it a Clock, the Sun or even seasonal timing, everything is run by 'Time'.
Time is a relative constant in that it exists, but is perceived differently by every form of life, from the human to the animal to the insect..and so on.
It may have recieved a more definitive basis for definition due to Religion, but in some form or another, time has been the constant companion of every living thing....i believe

but are non-human beings cognizant of time? and if they are not cognizant of it does it exist, or do we in fact, impose it upon them. I think time is the creation of man. that is why god makes so little sense to our limited minds, something that is infinite, above time. and perhaps there is time, but we have made it into something that it is not, removed its beautiful mutability and made it something boring and quantifiable.

 

[Schillaci]

but are non-human beings cognizant of time? and if they are not cognizant of it does it exist, or do we in fact, impose it upon them. I think time is the creation of man. that is why god makes so little sense to our limited minds, something that is infinite, above time. and perhaps there is time, but we have made it into something that it is not, removed its beautiful mutability and made it something boring and quantifiable.

Animals might not be aware of it, but it doesn't mean they aren't subject to it. I don't think time is a man made invention(they merely give it name), but I could argue that God is.

While I stand firmly in the middle, don't believe, don't disbelieve, I do agree that if indeed there is a God, he(or she!) would not be subject to laws that he created. God would be beyond time, death, etc..

 

[Frenchy Faith]

but are non-human beings cognizant of time? and if they are not cognizant of it does it exist, or do we in fact, impose it upon them. I think time is the creation of man. that is why god makes so little sense to our limited minds, something that is infinite, above time. and perhaps there is time, but we have made it into something that it is not, removed its beautiful mutability and made it something boring and quantifiable.

I think animals are subject to time... or at least to the Sun like DDLM says.... and the earth going round the sun kinda have the idea of time in it... though not time as we define it (or maybe since our calendar is based on the time the earth takes to go round the sun)
but to come back to animals... they do migrate... the "reproduction" period... though not exclusively in spring... still mainly takes place at that time... some animals hibernate... so I think they kinda are under the influence of time as well

edit: oh and i forgot... Merrick is the best............. or NOT! hehe that's just a g88se!

 

[arabella]

Lol...okie dokie. Time exists. God is a she and I am still not wearing a watch. Dammit. Lol.

Seriously though, time is a concept, like many other things. There is more possibility without it. I think my problem with the whole time thing is that it is so limited. I hate monochronic time. I'm really not about that. Polychronic time totally makes sense to me.

 

[goldenboy]

A little OT...I got a sister who often says she wishes she weren't born into the West. She's much more attracted to traditional Eastern modes of thought. The linearity and often narrow, sort of goal-oriented focus of Western thought is a turn-off I guess.

I tend to be kind of an obsessed pattern-seeker. I find that kinda stuff really interesting. I don't subscribe to the idea that science kills wonder. I just wish I had the wiring to conceptualize, fully appreciate what scientists and mathematicians are up to these days. Artists and writers can keep doing what they do. You can create so much gorgeous art within the tiniest of tiny boxes. As far as I can tell, science increases wonder and even expands imagination. The universe seems to get more bizarre and mysterious the more we learn. Maybe that's just the ebb and flow of information gathering, hypothesizing.

The West isn't in a purely religious or even a Newtonian, mechanical mindset anymore. Darwin and Einstein upset the applecart. I guess one can complain about the downsides, weaknesses of Western thought...I'm a fan, myself. It's nice to have access to both Western and Eastern thought.