To Shanshu Or Not To Shanshu

[white avenger]

One of those odd thoughts popped into my head a few minutes ago, and I thought that maybe it would make an interesting topic.

Does Angel actually want the Shanshu, or is it just something that he sees as a means to be with Buffy on a permanent basis? Put another way, if Buffy had stayed dead after Season 5, or were to die now, would he still want to become human?

Consider what he would lose. Superhuman strength. Hyper accute senses. Speed literally greater than the human eye can register, even if only for brief sprints. Accelerated healing. And the biggie, IMMORTALITY.

What he would gain. Human frailties in general, and, of course, a life span measured in decades, at the very best.

Frankly, I think that, without the prospect of a more or less normal life with Buffy, Angel would not only NOT want his humanity restored, he would actually fight to retain his vampirism. I think that he would justify it, of course, "I can fight evil more effectively as a vampire than I ever coild as a human," but the plain truth is, Angel LIKES what he is, even with the more or less self imposed frequent guilt trips he indulges in.

And if that truly is the case, wouldn't it be fair and accurate to say that he wants to be human just so he can get in a girl's pants?

 

[Black Eye Guy]

I think he'd want it, shanshu isn't just about Buffy for him, it's redemption. If he did something that earned him the Shanshu and it was something big enough, I think he would take it.

I have no idea what he'd have to do to actually feel justified to take it though. I think if Buffy were alive she'd have to out of danger, if the Shanshu was tied to THE apocalypse Buffy would be out of danger after it so he could take it.

 

[Kean]

Buffy has very little (if anything) to do with Shanshu for Angel. Shanshu is his own personal quest for himself. The value of Shanshu is not measured in terms of Buffy. It would undoubtedly make having a life with Buffy more achievable but he is not now, nor has he ever, pursued Shanshu for Buffy. Buffy isn't a prize to Angel. She isn't a reward. He doesn't "win" her if he turns into a real boy. She is the person he is in love with.

The reasons they are apart are related to him being a vampire but they aren't totally about that. Even if his soul was anchored there would be some serious consideration put into a reunion. For me, apart from the obvious curse issue, Buffy and Angel separated because of duty and "the mission" (although Angel was only just embarking on that when he left) and how their relationship compromised what they are both supposed to be doing. Neither of them could afford to have a person in their lives that they would give everything up for, and that's exactly who they were to each other. The mission had to be first.

---------- Post added at 10:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 PM ----------

And no @WhiteAvenger Angel doesn't want to be human to get into Buffy's pants. Wrong vamp 😉

 

[janas]

Angel does not like what he is ..he wants to become a human being regardless from Buffy. Becoming a human being should be the end of his journey, and this would mean that he is redeemed, he received what he desires most. Forgiveness. The journey of Angel is actually started with the premise of having to connect to humanity, as well as Doyle said.

The presence of Cordelia had precisely this meaning. A connection with humanity, but with the birth of Connor, is now his son its connection with humanity. I think Angel has already got his Shanshu, right through Connor. His son is his human side, and at the same time also represents immortality. Through Connor, Angel will have human descendants! ..not trivialize the Shanshu with issues low as "girl's pants", if that was the primary objective of Angel would not go away from Sunnydale and IWRY would have had a different ending.

 

[Robb Stark]

If that's how you read Angel, I don't think you understand him much at all.

You make it sound as though Angel views Buffy as some sort of object, like she's some sort of prize he wins at the end of the race. That just isn't true. I'm not even really sure where you got that perception, because it isn't even remotely implied or shown that he thinks of her that way.

The way you described him losing his vampire status also doesn't mesh, at all, with how he thinks of being a vampire. I mean hell, they have an entire episode of it in S1's "Eternity". Angel describes, in detail, that he despises being a vampire, even one with a soul. The bloodlust is still there. I know you don't like him but man, you've really misread him. That Shanshu is about metaphorically and symbolically putting Angelus behind him. The symbolism has nothing to do with Buffy.

(And to comment on your last few words, the "get into a girl's pants" line, which I'm well aware Spike's detractors say about him, that doesn't apply to Angel at all. Spike in S6 is a soulless monster who happens to be in love. That IS all he wants at that stage. Spike in S7 clearly matures and sees Buffy as more. That's a big part of his story)

And seriously, not everything has to be a competition between them. 🙂