To take on an army?

Kean

Kean

Professional Bangel
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Sineya
I am starting this thread on behalf of a BB member who prefers to remain nameless at this time. I want to highlight straightaway that this is a very personal topic and there is a genuine request for advice and or help on the part of the member. If your only reason for posting is to insult or condemn the member I suggest finding a thread elsewhere on the boards to take part in.

The BB member is formerly a member of the Armed Forces, and the Department of Defense has currently begun collecting money from the member's husband's tax returns and rebates on behalf of the member, for loss of pay and unreturned/damaged equipment. The member has coordinating documents to prove that she returned all equipment at outprocessing, and that the "loss of pay" was suppossed to be while she was still in service.

The details explaining the loss of pay are as follows: The member had an Article 15 issued at military trial specifying that she recieve 45 days of extra duty and 45 of lost pay. She also lost her rank and was issued an honorable discharge from service.

The Article 15 recieved at trial was in addition to a prior Article 15 for "failure to follow a direct order to stay in her assigned barracks". (The same barracks room where the member was raped.) The second for "falsifying an official statement. "(the reason she was ordered not to leave her barracks room)

The"official statement" that she got the charges for, would be that a rape took place.

I want to stress that fact that the member was raped, but too escape the pressure of dealing with the rape emotionally and the definition of ONE CID (Criminal Investigations Department) for the Armed forces investigator, she recanted. The CID's investigators definition of rape was as follows: "that rape entailed being tied up, beaten, or having a gun to your head or knife to your throat."

Fortunately for the member, she was not rapped in the manner in which the CID investigator described. She knew her attacker and she was simply paralyzed from shock and fear to fight him off, while she did plead for him to stop.

The total days of loss pay and extra duty combined from both Article 15's of lost equaled 90 days or 3 months time. The member was chaptered out of the military within 2 weeks of her second Article 15 sentencing term. She recieved no additonal pay from the military after discharge and recieved no pay prior during her sentencing term while still in service. The "Loss pay" the Department of Defense is trying to collect now is for the days she had remaining in her sentencing term after her discharge took place, and has compiled 7 years of additional interest! Basically, the Department of Defense is treating the situation like a fine instead of suspened pay, and she is being forced to pay back money she never recieved.


Seven years have passed since the attack and the member's discharge form the Armed Forces, the member has attended counselling to help move past this traumatic series of events and regained control of her life, only to suffer financially now for money she does not feel she owes. The question is simply this, does she let the Department of Defense take the money and feel victimized again by them or does she attempt to fight it?

Is it worth the emotional turmoil court will bring her for a chance at justice? and more imortantly, Does she stand any real chance of winning in court?


If the member feels that someone has posted something that could be of real benefit to her she may choose to contact you through PM. Please maintain her wishes and keep the matter private.

Thank You,
Keanoite.
 
Okay, we don't know how much money we're talking about. If it's a lot for this member (the exact amount wouldn't help, as it's about how much money this member has in geneal), so much that life could get rather hard without it, I would go to court. Other than that, I would just pay the money (for 3 months or what was it?). If I put myself in this situation, I wouldn't want to get reminded of everything that has happened and deal with the army/court just for some money. I've never been to court so I can only take a guess on what a case is like, but what I know from TV it's probably a total drag and long-lasting. Again, I wouldn't want to put myself through that just for some money.

Sorry if I sound rude or anything, I tried my best to sound supportive it's just hard to express that in ENglish
 
Like Social Suicide says, this does obviously depend on the amount of money we're talking about here, though from the words "suffer financially now for money" I would presume it's a rather large amount.

The main problem with going to court over this case is that if you lose the case not only are you going to have to pay the fine but you'll also be lumbered with lawyers and court fees on top of that. Another thing is.. after 7 years, do you really want to bring all that trauma back up to the surface? A court case could last months, even years. Would you rather just give them the money they're asking for?

It truely is a horrible situation and I feel awful for you. To me it seems unjustified and immoral to make you pay the money, after everything you've gone through, but as the thread title says.. can you really take on an army? In the end this is you, and possibly your husbands decision.. The only thing other people can give you is advice. I wish I could help further but I'm no expert on court cases, nor the department of defence. I wish you the greatest luck though.
 
Personally, I don't feel this has anything to do with the money.

This is all about whoever this is about.

You were the victim of a heinous crime by not only a member of society, but one that is supposed to be out there protecting us.

Money is money is money, you will find a way to live, thats fine, what you need to do is decide how you want to let go of what happened to you because honestly this story tells me that it still plagues you.

The court proceedings would undoubtedly make you face issues regarding this but it might be what you need on the other hand it might not.

I am truly sorry for what you have been through, no matter how much of a bastard I can be I would never wish this on anyone.

With all the good will in the world, this thread isn't going to help. You have already made up your mind on what you want to do, this thread is only serving the purpose of seeing if people agree with you.

You must do what you feel is the right thing for you.
Maybe seek the guidance of a therapist who can help you.

I fear we Buffy Boarders are less than able to help you in your issue, need and struggle.

I am sorry for what you have been through, whoever you are.

Alister

xx
 
SpikedBuffy
SpikedBuffy
Nice post.
Sadly, unless the amount owed is truly astronomical, the legal fees involved will far outweigh anything gained in the courts. considering that, and the personal trauma of dragging the entire episode out once more, I would have to say that the best thing that she could do is to pay the money. She could of course, and probably should, consult a lawyer and get his advice anyway, because a lawyer could give her a much more accurate assessment than anyone here would be likely to.
 
My head says that on a purely practical level it would make more sense to take the path of least resistance. But then my gut says fight, because there'll be somebody someday who'll desperately wish there was some sort of precedent. Either way, all the best of luck, and I wish I could think of anything more useful to say.
 
I'm a bit apprehensive about making this post. I'm a bit undivided on what I've said, but here goes:

I'd fight it...I don't know how to explain it, but I feel like if I were in this situation, I'd go to any lengths to prove that I don't owe any money. Like Alister said, it's not about the money: it'd be an issue of self respect for me: let myself feel beaten down again or be able to rise above it. These are my own personal feelings, however.

And, if the money is a LARGE amount...well, I don't know what I'd do. I don't personally know what it's like to get raped and go through the psychological aftermath following it, but my older sister was and that was hard enough on her and my family as well. In my very ignorant opinion regarding this subject, I would fight for vindication no matter what.

Just follow your gut, you'll make it through. No matter what, know that EVERYONE on BB loves you and cares for you and your best interest. (Or however it's said...)

- TC
 
S
Summers Blood
I was thinking the same... I'd fight!
Whoa.

I can't even begin to imagine how you must be feeling or even how to react in such a situation. My thinking is that it unfortunately probably isn't an isolated case, especially with such a dispicible loophole in the law....it must be so hard to think that fighting the system will mean that it will be all brought up again but then maybe it one person stands up you'll find that there is enough support to make a difference.

I'm not going to give advice because I don't feel informed enough to do so, but whatever your decision is I hope you get all the support that you need, you definitely have mine.

Good luck.
 
I could only say what I think I would do if I were in those circumstance (Which I couldn't even be 100% sure of without having gone through it)

If you don't mind spending the money to fight back, then I would do it, just cuz it sounds like they have won once before. that route would obiviously involve bringing the issue up again and some money to go though it, if you don't mind either, and you feel you could go through it then I would fight it.

If you lost, and again I can only speak for myself, I think I would at least feel a little better that I didn't take it lying down.

For myself I could see it as something that would annoy me years after it was over, I would still be bitter that I hadn't fought back.

This is just what I think I would do, you decision would have to be your decision and what you would feel more comfortable doing.
 
Advice from a qualified legal representative would be best. Find out what your up against and what you might get out of it.
If it were up to me..........I'd say, try to keep the bastards honest.
 
It is really not worth taking a rape case to court. Trust me from experience. It is emotionally devestating having to relay the events that happened, and if they did not take samples and a rape test withing 48 hours of the rape its your word against theirs so there is a large chance the case will be dismissed.
 
Hard to give advice, but I'm really sorry this happened to you. I hope you're able to take back what this person took from you.
I was going to say what Illyrian stated, about talking to a lawyer to get their opinion. But it is basically about what you'd be able to deal with better in the long term.
 
I think most obvious roads to take have been mentioned before and I feel that I have very little useful to add, except that I also want to emphasise getting legal advice from a qualified professional.


The biggest problem here, of course, is that this member is only one person, maybe with a lawyer and a support group of friends and family, taking on an entire army with a large legal branch. It's not a really fair match. There IS a way however to get to their level: drag it out in the open. Get your story heard and gather public support. One word: Oprah.

Obviously, it's easier said than done... because of all the obvious reason. But if you ARE going to try and find this, you are going to have to tell people what happened exactly. If you're willing to do that, maybe you can take it one step further. Perhaps you can try to get the CID definition to get changed.
 
I want thank everyone who has participated in the thread thus far, it is greatly appreciated.

The member has asked me to provide some further information on the issue.

1. An attorney has been consulted and he wants to sue not only for the amount taken but for emotional damages as well.

2. A decision has not been made, thats why the thread, for a non-emotionaly envolved point of view from peopel she doesnt know. All of her friends and family want her to get some justice but she doesnt know if justice is worth the emotional battle.

3. the money taken totals thousands but is not astronomical no. but it does definately hinder the member.

Again, Thank you all for your contributions.
Keanoite.
 
freakydorky said:
...its your word against theirs so there is a large chance the case will be dismissed.
Click to expand...


Basically, along with this, I'm going to say that I doubt that she'd have a good chance of winning simply because of the fact that she recanted her statement. She's putting the government against the goverment with a recant to deal with. But I'm not a lawyer.

Plus, isn't there a statute of limitations for this kind of thing? I mean, I know this isnt really about bringing the rapist to justice, but some judges would see it as a waste of time to even deal with.

I think if she feels strongly enough about it that she'd do anything, then it's worth it, if not for pure peace of mind. But if there's any doubt at all, I don't think it would be worth it to go through all the "trama" (for lack of a better word) it could cause.
 
I'd think the lawyer has addressed the issues raised by Kryptonite?
I've been through a court battle when the statute of limitations had been and gone and I still got a good settlement because my case was strong and I had a good lawyer. This kind of case isn't unheard of, and you're not alone. There can be very positive consequences from going through the legal route, but it's really up to you.
 
The statute of limitations is up to try the rape case. It would be too to take on the army, but they reopened it the second they collected on the debt and therefor reopened the emotional wounds.
 
I'm not sure if I can help anymore than anyone else has already... but being in the military, I sort of know what your friend might be up against...

I won't get too into it, but I definitely think she should fight it. It will be hard, and it most likely will re-open wounds... But she does have a strong case... from what I've read... and being that it was 7 years ago, a lot has changed, and chances are if everything is re-opened, there could be a different outcome. Right now, she's just being attacked by a collector. They probably have no idea about the circumstances.

I know I probably didn't help, but maybe gave her a little confidence in whatever choice she's made 🙂
 
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