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Too soon?

nightshade

Plotting and planning
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Black Thorn
#1
Was it too soon for Buffy and Willow to start new relationships with Parker)Riley and Kennedy? How long should the writers have waited before having them start a new relationship?
 

WillowFromBuffy

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#2
Whenever people say, "I want Buffy to be single and be fine with it," I think, "... but that is not how drama works."
 
HowiMetdaSlayer
HowiMetdaSlayer
disagree. plenty of drama in dating (not exclusively), or being single 😉

Taake

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#3
I don't know, the idea that you have to have romance to create drama is false in my opinion, however, romance does make for good and easy drama, and it's something that draws audiences in so it makes sense that that's the go-to ingredient. Give the people what they want! (Can't tell you how many shows I've been sucked into because of some romantic plot I found appealing)

That said, in these cases I think getting someone new to enter the romantic scene as quickly as possible was the best thing they could've done. You needed Parker as a transition guy, Riley was needed to show that Buffy was moving on. If the writers had waited the difficulty to replace Angel and Tara wouldn't have faded, in some ways I think it would have increased because it would've allowed viewers to still hang on, more strongly, to the past relationships.

I also think it is good to show that even after a tragic loss, like Tara, there is room to heal and move on. I may not like Kennedy and would've maybe preferred someone else as Willow's new partner, but I think the idea of it was good :)
 
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#4
I'm more ok with Buffy starting a new relationship than Willow. Bangel ended in relatively peaceful mutual agreement. It was like closing a chapter. Should she have been single longer? Maybe, but I don't mind that she wasn't..

With Willow however, the violent way Tillow ended and the almost carefree way Willow/Kennedy started was so jarring. It could've been more believable to me if Willow/Kennedy was something casual but a relationship? I might be projecting but it felt way too much, way too soon.
 

WillowFromBuffy

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#5
Riley is like the George Lazenby of the show, taking the brunt of the backlash. When Roger Moore comes around, everyone is like, "Fine. I guess this is life now."
 
DeadlyDuo
DeadlyDuo
I thought Lazenby was after Moore and before Dalton?
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#7
Buffy lost her virginity in mid s2 the night she turned 17. If she didn't get to have sex in s4 she would go into s5 having had to wait 2 1/2 to 3 years years between the first time she had sex & the second time. Hasn't she been through enough?

Angel left because he wanted Buffy to be able to have a boyfriend who she could go in the sunlight with, make love, have children, etc. He was her first real boyfriend but since he was a vampire & hermit there was so much she didn't get to experience until Riley.

In s1 Buffy only went on one date plus 2 kisses with Angel. In s2 she woke up alone after sex with Angel, spent the next night crying alone in bed. She was single for the next 8 months (mourning Angel's loss of soul & stint in Hell). She spent months in s3 thinking she wasn't allowed to be with him. By Prom she believed they could be together like a regular couple (dances, drawers) if unconventional then he dumped her & left town. She didn't get to have that honeymoon period that all the other couples did. Oz & Willow and Xander & Anya and Willow & Tara were allowed uninterrupted exploration, they could spend as much time together as they wanted, have as much sex as they wanted, and just be together. Buffy didn't get to have that until Riley.
 
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#8
For Buffy, no it wasn't too soon. She and Angel had split up amicably (because of his curse) and it's been suggested that Parker was Buffy's attempt to get over Angel (and it could be argued that there are enough superficial similarities between Angel and Parker for Buffy to be drawn to him). DB actually appeared in The Freshman from behind as the guy Buffy thought was him, showing she's still not completely over Angel. Riley was then the proper new relationship whereas Parker was the transition.

For Willow, yes it was too soon. Tara died at the end of season 6 which sent Willow on a roaring rampage of revenge where she tried to destroy the world. Se was sent to England over the summer then came back which is when Kennedy started pouncing on her. That's only a couple of weeks/months since the love of her life died. If Willow is yelling up to the heavens and begging Tara's forgiveness because she kissed another woman, then that clearly shows she's still not over Tara.

Kennedy was very domineering of Willow so it kind of felt like she was being railroaded into a new relationship too soon.
 

spikenbuffy

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#9
For Buffy I don't care if she finds someone in S4, in my rewatches I started to like riley and Briley have some good scenes, it's just that sometimes he's not interesting.
For Willow, I don't like the bitchiness of Kennedy period. And yes it's too soon because of Tara that she lost, I would have prefered for her to move on at the end of the show maybe in some episodes near the end she would have a date or a proposal of date, it would be like a hope that she would get better and get over the loss of her true soulmate (Tara). But Kennedy shouldn't exist in the Buffyverse IMO.
 

MarieVampSlayer

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Sineya
#10
Like most of you said no for Buffy and yes for Willow. But beside the way the relationship between the characters ended, there is a problem also in their personal development.

Buffy needed a Parker in her life as sad as that is. She was at a point in her life where she needed to experiment sex with someone else than Angel and to learn some harsh things about love and bad person. I think the Parker storyline made her stronger and in a way helped her to have a healthy distance in her relationships with man. With Angel she was ready to give everything for him and as romantic as that seem on TV it is not healthy. We can see her change with Riley because he wants all of her but she won't give it to him. Riley thinks she doesn't love him because he is still in this romantic stage of first love. But Buffy has learned that even though you are with someone you still have to stay trust yourself first and she learned that from her experience with Parker.

Willow didn't need a Kennedy at this point in this story. Willow had just gone dark and tried to kill all her friends. She had reconstruction to do with herself, her magic and the family she had built over the years. This is what she needed and would have been great to watch. Instead we had a sexy grilfriend distraction that didn't help her overcome anything special except to have sex with someone after Tara. If Kennedy had been a one night stand it would have been different but making her a steady girlfriend was a mistake.
 

Faith 2019

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#11
Like most of you said no for Buffy and yes for Willow. But beside the way the relationship between the characters ended, there is a problem also in their personal development.

Buffy needed a Parker in her life as sad as that is. She was at a point in her life where she needed to experiment sex with someone else than Angel and to learn some harsh things about love and bad person. I think the Parker storyline made her stronger and in a way helped her to have a healthy distance in her relationships with man. With Angel she was ready to give everything for him and as romantic as that seem on TV it is not healthy. We can see her change with Riley because he wants all of her but she won't give it to him. Riley thinks she doesn't love him because he is still in this romantic stage of first love. But Buffy has learned that even though you are with someone you still have to stay trust yourself first and she learned that from her experience with Parker.

Willow didn't need a Kennedy at this point in this story. Willow had just gone dark and tried to kill all her friends. She had reconstruction to do with herself, her magic and the family she had built over the years. This is what she needed and would have been great to watch. Instead we had a sexy grilfriend distraction that didn't help her overcome anything special except to have sex with someone after Tara. If Kennedy had been a one night stand it would have been different but making her a steady girlfriend was a mistake.
None of the female characters of Buffy the Vampire Slayer is a Mary Sue. If you want to see a Mary Sue, just watch Star Wars and look at Rey who is killing off Star Wars
 
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#12
Buffy and Parker was already out of character. Re Willow and Kennedy, eh, I don't think it fits well into Season 7, and given how season 6 ended, but it is reported that lesbians move fast.
 

GraceK

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#13
Kennedy was basically an apology to the gay community for killing off Tara which backfired. It was Joss’s attempt at saying “ I don’t hate gays! Tara’s death wasn’t a kill your gays trope! Stop being angry with me! Look at all the hot lesbian sex Willow will have this season with a tongue pierced aggressive girlfriend!”

It was extremely transparent, insulting and ridiculous. The actress was annoying, abrasive, she sucked in every scene she was in , and judging by all the acting roles she has gotten since, America has agreed with me. Nothing about that relationship was sincere or organic and honestly I headcanon that she’s just really good in bed and once the sex haze wears off Willow will move on to greener pastures cause she doesn’t actually give a crap about her. Just her tongue ring.

Buffy’s storyline oth made sense.
 

brinkster130

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Sineya
#14
Nope. I don't think there is a set amount of time that needs to pass before its "ok" for someone to get into another relationship. People grieve and move on in different ways and in different amounts of time. If Buffy and/or Willow felt it was the right time to move on then I don't see a problem; unless they were still having issues and not being honest with their new partners about it.
 
DeepBlueJoy
DeepBlueJoy
Amen! It is seriously paternalistic to have opinions about the private lives of adults.

Taake

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#15
You're making me feel really bad for Kennedy now. Doesn't anyone think it was good that they showed the Willow was starting to move on?
 
brinkster130
brinkster130
I do. Kennedy was annoying, but Willow seemed to like her and that's what was important.
GraceK
GraceK
I’d rather Willow move on with a fungus demon than with Kennedy ;)

thetopher

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Sineya
#16
I don't think it was too soon for either of them. I guess Buffy needed a taste of normal dating after 2-ish years of dating a vampire on and off. Parker was a bad- but understandable- choice (it should've been Eddy! Why didn't you walk him home Buffy, why??). Riley was what, half-way through the season before it got real serious. That's fine.

With Willow its more that I can't (and don't buy) the who and how it happens, not the fact that it happens.
Basically Willow falls for the next gay person she meets who forces themselves into her life during a huge apocalypse thing. It feels more rushed and artificial than normal. It's almost like the writers wanted to establish that Willow was gay and that Joss loved the gays, or something.
But Willow shouldn't have mourned forever or whatever. There's a time for grief and a time for living.
 

MarieVampSlayer

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Sineya
#17
None of the female characters of Buffy the Vampire Slayer is a Mary Sue. If you want to see a Mary Sue, just watch Star Wars and look at Rey who is killing off Star Wars
I'm confused, why do you think I want a Mary Sue?
 
caitaintdead
caitaintdead
I literally read your post 5 times trying to find a reference to a Mary Sue and was left confused too!

HowiMetdaSlayer

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#18
To be fair (if you go by air date) Tara died in early May and Willow didn't really start dating Kennedy till February. That's 9 months. Not exactly jumping from one relationship to another. Plus I think, in the show's time, it was actually a little longer than that even. 🤔
 
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#20
To be fair (if you go by air date) Tara died in early May and Willow didn't really start dating Kennedy till February. That's 9 months. Not exactly jumping from one relationship to another. Plus I think, in the show's time, it was actually a little longer than that even. 🤔
Willow was shouting up to the sky, begging for Tara's forgiveness because Kennedy kissed her. That doesn't sound like someone ready to move on yet.
 
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