TOUGH LOVE-disciplining Dawn and wicked Willow

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saturn5

Scooby
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Sep 13, 2009
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937
TOUGH LOVE

The Good;
Good scenes between Buffy and Dawn, excellent battle between Willow and Glory

The Bad;
If you're a Tara fan it's pretty gut-wrenching

Best line;
Minion; "Begging your pardon and begging in general"

Women good/men bad;
Glory calls Tara a tramp

Jeez!;
Glory brainsucking Tara is awful although Clare Kramer gives a great performance describing the madness (which of course Glory experiences it too). Anya's racism against the French is also a bit much (and surely Anya is actually Swedish, yah?). Willow spits on Glory.

Kinky dinky;
Glory bathes in front of her minions but blindfolds them.

Captain Subtext;
Tara and Willow have their first fight. A lot of people disliked this but couples fight, straight or gay, everyone has arguments. Willow refers to lesbo-street cred, she tells Tara that she's the only woman she's fallen in love with (again, bi rather than gay?). Implying that Tara has had gay lovers before? Anya offers to let Willow sleep with her admitting this sounds a lot more lesbian than she intended. Glory gives lots of little hints of lesbianism when she's 'holding' Tara's hand. Lovely scene at the end where Buffy and Willow are with 'their girls', Will kissing Tara and Buffy stroking Dawn's hair.

Guantanamo Bay;
Giles tortures Glory's minion. With the same trick Angelus played on him?

Scoobies to the ER;
Poor Tara, brainsucked.

Missing scenes;

Apocalypses; 5, Glory asks did anyone order one?

Wheldon Cliches (with kind permission from Boo)

Scoobies in bondage:
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 5
Will: 3
Jenny: 1
Angel: 4
Oz: 1
Faith: 3
Joyce: 1
Wes: 1
Xander; 1
Dawn; 1

Scoobies knocked out:
Buffy: 16
Giles: 10
Cordy: 6
Xander: 8
Will: 5
Jenny: 2
Angel: 6
Oz: 3
Faith: 1
Joyce: 3
Wes: 1
Anya;1

Kills:
Buffy: 96 vamps, 32 demons, 6 monsters, 3 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot
Giles: 5 vamps, 1 demon
Cordy: 3 vamps, ½ a demon
Will: 6 vamps
Angel: 3 vamps, 1 demon, 1 human
Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie
Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans
Xander: 5 vamps, 2 zombies, ½ a demon, ½ a demon
Anya: 1vamp + ½ a demon
Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons
Buffybot; 1 vamp
Spike; 1 vamp and 1/2 a demon

Scoobies go evil:
Giles: 1
Cordy: 1
Will: 2
Jenny: 1
Angel: 1
Oz: 1
Joyce: 1
Xander: 3

Alternate scoobies:
Buffy: 6
Giles: 3
Cordy: 1
Will: 2
Jenny: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 2
Joyce: 2
Xander: 3

Recurring characters killed: 10
Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce

Sunnydale deaths;
89;

Total number of scoobies: 6
Giles, Xander, Willow, Buffy, Anya, Tara,

Xander demon magnet: 5(6?)
Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot:
Giles: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 4
Riley; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost:
Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes?
Cordy: 1?
Buffy: 3 confirmed; Angel, Parker,Riley, 1 possible, Dracula(?)
Angel: 1;Buffy
Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?)
Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca
Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley
Xander: 2; Faith, Anya
Willow: 2;Oz and Tara
Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vampwhore

Questions and observations;
You feel so bad for Buffy having to quit school and so bad for Ben being fired. Glory likes aspects of this dimension, changing her tune (because of Ben's influence?). The scenes with Buffy and Dawn over Dawn's truancy are heartrending, the terror they feel at the prospect of losing each other. Can't Dawn go to Aunt Arlene? Once again Tara says she fears Will's magic. Buffy's 'Things change' line may be from Batman Returns? What do people want petrified hamsters for?
Marks out of 10; 7/10
 
I have nothing else to say, but I love this Dawn's quote.

Dawnie : I'm like a lightning rod for pain, and hurt... and everyone around me suffers and dies. You wanna know what I'm scared of, Spike? Me. Right now, Glory thinks Tara's the Key. But I'm the Key, Spike. I am. And anything that happens to Tara... is 'cause of me. Your bruises, your limp... that's all me, too. I'm like a lightning rod for pain, and hurt... and everyone around me suffers and dies. I must be something so horrible to cause so much pain and evil.
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She's so sweet. I love her.
 
U
ubi4soft
[No message]
Connor Holtz
Connor Holtz
Dawn <3
I love this episode. There's a lot of sad "aww" moments, like Dawn's speech to Spike about what a bad "thing" she thinks she is, and Willow and Tara's fight. When Glory sucks Tara's brain it's soooo gutwrenching for me, for some reason. And the fact that Willow takes care of her, regardless, is so sweet.
I loved the scene at the end, with Buffy stroking Dawn's hair and Willow touching Tara. But my favorite part of the whole episode is when Anya tells Willow "You can sleep with me!... Well, now that came out a lot more lesbian than I intended." LOL
 
saturn5 said:
Yeah, lot of people forget this speech or the fact that she was prepared to sacrifice herself on Glory's tower
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My heart broke when she went to jump in "The Gift" and Buffy stopped her and she looked at her with tears in her eyes and said "You know you have to let me." Awww....
 
I loved Spike's reply to Dawn (quote above by MY): Well, I'm not good and I'm OK.

Buffy goes to support Willow fighting Glory after she understands what desperate measures someone in love would consider.

Also, going after Glory with "I Owe You Pain" it's a terrible foreshadowing for what a grieving Willow will do next season to Warren.
 
ubi4soft said:
Also, going after Glory with "I Owe You Pain" it's a terrible foreshadowing for what a grieving Willow will do next season to Warren.
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Yeah... It's always weird to me to watch those scenes, where her eyes go black and I think about what she becomes and those black eyes in Season 6.
 
Willow is such a beast!! Love her!

And Tara going crazy was just the saddest thing. I thought it was good they had a fight, though. It shows that their relationship is a real one... one with no fighting is just weird. But Willow's expression when she finds Tara and she's crazy as just so sad. It's really gut-wrenching.
 
Loved this episode. It was so sad to see willow and tara fight for the first time. The fight between glory and willow was epic but this was when all the magical inconsistency began with willow. It was nice to see that even though tara was mentally impaired by the end of the episode that willow and the scoobies didn't abandon her and looked after her.
 
Good episode.
The Spike and Dawn scene was the first scene in the series in which I didn't want to punch Dawn in the face, she stopped acting like a total brat for a few minutes.
IMO this is the saddest ep in the series, closely followed by the body. I'm a big Tara, and Tillow fan, so that last scene kills me every time.
Wish Willow had gone all S6 on Glory's ass, would have destroyed her.
8/10
 
I love this episode. My favorite scene has to be when Giles hits the minion with the door before we even know that he's there. That was classic bad ass giles haha.
 
the_latter said:
I love this episode. My favorite scene has to be when Giles hits the minion with the door before we even know that he's there. That was classic bad ass giles haha.
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When I first started watching Buffy, I asked my dad if Giles was more than an old British guy, and he said, "naw." Lies!
Giles has skillz!
 
There's a lot to like about this episode. Giles' bad-ass attitude toward the minion (he's displayed that more often this season-remember him with Spike?), Willow's attack on Glory, Michelle Trachtenberg's and Amber Benson's performances are both great.

The geek in me was wondering which comic book Xander was reading, since it's hard to see it, and I found it!
In the Magic Box, Xander reads issue [HASHTAG]#109[/HASHTAG] of The X-Men. The X-Men are Marvel Comics' superheros created by Jack Kirby and Stan Lee in 1963. The story Xander is reading is titled "Ceremonies," written by Chris Claremont and pencilled by Thomas Derenick.
http://www.buffyguide.com/episodes/toughlove.shtml#ixzz12R9AlcYh
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There's a whole rack of comic books in the back of the Magic Box, and I've always wondered what they are. Anybody know?

And I like this Xander quote: "It's Dawn Giovanni and the Buffster."
 
Just saw this episode and in the beginning when Ben is being fired the other doctor says something like"maybe eating twinkies made you do it" is that from when Dan White shot Harvey Milk and blamed it on his change of diet and that all the twinkies he'd been eating made him do it, or something like that, the 'Twinkie defense' I can't believe I never noticed that before.

Anyway I like this episode a lot, Anya is funny as always at the hospital.

Best line:
Buffy: I try. It's just ... my foot's not used to being put down. I want you to do it. You can be the foot-putting-downer.
GILES: No, Buffy, I don't think I can.
BUFFY: Please? Pretty please? I mean, your foot is way bigger than mine!
 
I love how Willow steps up to the plate to take care of Tara in this, but I really hated the fight they had. Sorry I didn't establish my lesbian street cred? Really? I just saw it as a little demeaning, is all.

I love how she stands up for Tara.

Dawn gained a little respect back from me for this episode and The Gift, but she lost the vast majority of it the next season and the next. They tried too hard to make her a believable character, imo.
 
Willow was so evasive and interrupting during the fight with Tara - what was going on for her there - i don't get it?

My favourite line was Giles at the beginning:

Anya: Look at 'em. Perusing the shelves. Undressing the merchandise with their eyeballs ... all ogle, no cash. It's not just annoying, it's unAmerican.
Giles: Appalling. Almost as if they no longer think money can buy happiness.
 
Willowmylove said:
I love how Willow steps up to the plate to take care of Tara in this, but I really hated the fight they had. Sorry I didn't establish my lesbian street cred? Really? I just saw it as a little demeaning, is all.
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Why did you find it so? As far as I know, a lot of girl/girl relationships where one person might have been with men before (or bisexual) get into these kinds of fights of "So are you toying with me and going to run back to men or is this real?"
 
It just bothered me. It's not like Willow had a whole lot of experience with men. She'd been with one man, and one woman. Couldn't she have just been experimenting with Oz?

I don't like how being gay is a thing you "go back" from.
 
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