True moment of Happiness?

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blake

Child ofthe lesser God
Joined
Dec 5, 2003
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Detroit, Mi
Ok, so something has been on my mind lately, When Angel looses his soul, It's always associated with him having sex. I know plenty of people who have it, and are miserable, before, during, and after. Are the writers trying to say, that sex gives him a moment of true happiness? And if not, then why don't they let him relieve some of that pent up aggression he has going on 🙂 . No but seriously, it's not just with Cordy or Buffy. He has to watch with anyone. And I cant seem to get past it.. Help me out here all.
 
Well, not all sex is perfect happiness for him. He didn't lose his soul after he slept with Darla or Eve. So, it's only the people that he has sex with that make him lose his soul ... not the sex itself. 🙂
 
But why would having sex with people give him a moment of true happiness? this is where I'm having trouble. I mean it's one thing to "make love, it's different from having "sex, and sometimes you just need a good "f***". But in reality, doing these things doesnt' always bring people " true hapiness" or moments of them. So what your saying then is that having sex with Buffy gave him a true moment of happiness, why not just being with her then>?
 
I guess it could be argued that he should lose his soul just by cuddling with Buffy. But if that were the case, he would've lost his soul every other week when he was on the show. I guess sex was just what Joss decided would be the clause. I guess you just have to take it in stride ...
 
Because having sex with someone is supposely the finale acts of showing them that you love them, its just what Joss is going after because if think about it Connors birth probably shouldve been a moment of true happiness for Angel(but the look on his face it wasnt)....

And well Buffy and Angel did declare their love for each other a minute before they had sex thus making love which basically bonded them some could say and the same in the Angel dreaming of Cordy dream.
 
yeah i could see that, it always loops me, whenever people talk about angel and his true moment, But not associating it with the close bonds he had with both Buff and Cordy.
 
Well, it is being able to consummate the love that makes it perfect hence the perfect happiness. It allows him to be as close as he ever could be to being human and having a real relationship.

That and Joss used Angel becoming evil after he and Buffy made love as a metaphor for how a guy can often change after he gets what he wants...I imagine as a way of saying that having sex equals consequences...especially for the younger viewers...or some logical nonsense like that...lol
 
preach on Rayne! giving me some closure here, things are starting to make sense

the book of Rayne Chapter 15
verse 12,

That and Joss used Angel becoming evil after he and Buffy made love as a metaphor for how a guy can often change after he gets what he wants...I imagine as a way of saying that having sex equals consequences...especially for the younger viewers...or some logical nonsense like that
 
Sex with the person you ultimately luv IS the truest form of happiness there is. You guys are so right, sex can be very meaningless if it is with the wrong people. The ultimate gift you have to offer someone is your luv, the most intimiate and whole way of showing that luv is through sex. He might luv Buffy and he can kiss and cuddle with her but the completeness and true happiness that he found is when he had actual sex with her.
 
I think Joss and ME have gone out of their way to show that it isn't sex that is Angel's trigger. It's about the perfect moment with the perfect person. Even Angel himself thinks that sex is crappy, remember the episode "expecting", where Cordelia says she learned that sex is bad, and Angel says "we already knew that".
 
Very correct Watcher Wes! The perfect moment with the perfect person! In my opinion, my feelings and view points just state that I believe it to be the joining of two people. Two people bound together as a whole. Luving-perfect.
 
You could make a case for the morality tale as described by Rayne, and I'm sure ME had that partially in mind, but you could also make a case that they were saying sex is fine, as long as it's with the right person. I can't see the first one so much as the main point, only as a useful counterpoint to the second one.

Did this post actually make sense? ***puzzled look***
 
I was going to make this same topic..Why can't he have sex with someone he doesn't really love..None-the-less like(which rules me out cause he loves me..Hehe)

Answer:Maybe he just doesn't want to...


Sex is evil!
 
he lost his soul coz he had sex with the girl he loved,after declaring his love to her, after being quite a long time together with Buffy and feelig as a human in normal relationship.These things all added and he got his moment of true happiness...
 
He was very happy with buffy, and im guessing orgasming made it a true moment of happiness. Although he did change while asleep, maybe he dreampt about what he had just done and "improved" it 😀
 
The clause isn't about sex,he lost his soul when he had sex with Buffy becaus he loved her and he knewshe loved him back.when he was with her he felt too happy,he couldn't focus on all the people he killed,he was only thinking about how m,uch he loved buffy.
The curse is abpput angel suffering,when he was making love with buffy he wasn't in pain,he was hapy,he felt like a human,the tortured soul wasn't plaquing his thoughts,he wasn't having the momories of the blond girl angelus raped,the guys he tortured, the people he sired,the kids he murdered,the bloody puppies he hurted...He was concentrated on loving and feeling loved.
When he had sex with darla was only that,sex,he didn't make love with her,he just f*cked her,wth Buffy everything was different,he didn't spened that night with her because she wore a sexy red dress,looking hot as hell and turning him on.
During 270 years he never loved anybody and anybody loved him neither,...then she came along and he feelin love with her,he loved her more than anything on earth,what could have made him happier thna being with the only woman he ever loved?:nothing...Thta was probably the best night in his whole life, they were there,together,showing how much they loved ech other.
He spent 150 years with Darla as Angelus,he obviously had a great time with her,but she never made him happy.Whne he slept with darla in Los angeles everything was about list,violence and 'i dont care anythign anymore'-stuff-He dodn't sleep with her because he loved her or felt for her,he just did it because he was horny,she was there hot as always and he decided to act like a male.
And anyway,if you think about it this way,that was a part of a prophecy,they has to have sex cuz cinnor had to born soemway(jasmine-subject).
About Angel sleeping with cordelia in Aweking,i've read a few interviews with david and joss,they said angel was thinking of buffy,that's why he screamed her name when the fantasy finished.If you pay atenttion,in tthat scene,Cordelia's personlity bacame like buffy's.He didn't change because he had sex with cordelia(or buffy)in the fantasy.Watch calvary,angeus said everyone had to be okay and happy,cuz that was the only f Angel losing his soul.It was true,connor acepted him as his father,he wasnt agry with him anymore,..wes was his friend again,he didnt have troubles with the beast or anything else-That made him feel completely happy-All the people he loved was fine and happy,which made him feel good for them-In suinnydale didn't happen the ame because he didn't have frineds,he was alone,nobody cared for him except Buffy,the person he was in love with,he loved her,she loved him back,...what else could he have wanted?,he had everything what he needed:Buffy¡s love.
He had her there with him,for him.When she was around he could only think about how badly he wanted to kiss her and about how much he loved her.The night they made love,he loved her of course,but he also knew she loved him too,he felt like a human being.Angel's deepest wish is to become a human.That night he became one in someway,he felt like one,she made him feel like one.He was with the woman he loved,not thinking about anything painful,there wasnt any horrible memory ot thought...he was feeling the way he wanted to feel.For fisrt time in his life he had everything,...and suddenly he lost it because he wasn't suppose to have it in the first place.
I presume he never fekt like that ebfore,he had one night of perfect hapiness in 276 years thanks to the only woman he can't be with(...yet...).
Another issue,Eve...did he had sex with her?:yes..did he change?:no....
In 'ememies',..i thinki he had sex with Faith,remember the scene where they were laying on the floor,faith on top of angel?,if tehy didn't have sex after that I'm Madonna...well,that's off topic,...so coming back on topic,he had sex with cordelia,Darla ,Eve and perhaps Faith,he didn't turn into angelus with them because he wasn't in love with them.
I think the clause is about love,not sex and now that I'm reading everything i wrote i think I should have said 'Im with someone' 😛


PS:Blake,you amde sound angel like a perve cuz he likes sex(which is probably true,but the perfect hapiness doesn't have anything to do with that,angel cam loose his soul without making out).what would be worng with taht?,the guy is 90% of the time being sad,can't he have soem fun once in a while?
PS2:My hand is aching and this thread made me want to watch Surprise!
 
Actually, Angel never had sex with Faith. Really, they didn't. And he never technically had sex with Cordelia, either. In the dream, he did lose his soul because of her but they never technically did the dirty deed.

But yeah, I think Magui put the final nail in the coffin. Well said. 🙂
 
If it was just about the whole orgasm thing then surely he's had plenty of orgasms when he's on his own and he didnt change then. so i agree its about buffy being his one true love 🙂
 
exactly,I tried to not to mention the word,but yeah,it is true...come on,do you think he didn't f*ck a girl during 100 years?,..oh,please,..do you remember the girls from 3.3 ats?....'mmmm,angel...'..angel,not angelus,...why do you think they were saying that?...and then cordy said 'but when you say equiped taht isn't what you mean,isnt it?..oh i get it and eww'...sex,..3 girls talking about sex with angel...he didn't turn into angelus when he did the fuzzy with them!
 
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