Twilight Series

[Blondie Bear]

I'm seeing a lot of argument over the vampires here--one side saying the story sucks because the vampires don't, and one side saying it doesn't matter because vampires aren't real. Let me see if I can clarify what one side thinks, because I think this is kind of a dumb argument to be having.

I agree that vampires aren't real and therefore are open to interpretation. However, there is a rich and detailed mythology surrounding vampires that most people know and ascribe to. Authors often tweak this mythology one way or another, leaving out some things (Charlaine Harris' vampires are visible in reflective surfaces) or adding others (Rice and Whedon's vampires with souls). However, they all stick to the same basic principles and make only minor tweaks.

Myer has thrown out all but one thing that most people understand to be qualities of vampires--they drink blood. I have no problem with the Cullens choosing to drink animal blood (though I think "vegetarian" was a stupid term to use for that) rather than human blood. But they're missing lots of other qualities that define vampires in the mythological sense.

Good literature always borrows from and expands on the stuff that's gone before it. That's why it's so important for writers to read everything they can get their hands on and some stuff they can't. For someone to decide that they're going to completely remake a mythology--and not because the old mythology stinks or doesn't make sense, but because she's too scared to do her research--violates every principle of good writing I've ever heard. Not to mention that she comes off like an arrogant bitca because she refuses to even nod to thousands of years worth of mythology, folklore, and literature.

If Myer had stuck to the traditions with her vampires, I still wouldn't like Twilight because there's lots of other stuff wrong with it, but I hope that helps the vampires-aren't-real debate a bit.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I'm seeing a lot of argument over the vampires here--one side saying the story sucks because the vampires don't, and one side saying it doesn't matter because vampires aren't real. Let me see if I can clarify what one side thinks, because I think this is kind of a dumb argument to be having.

I agree that vampires aren't real and therefore are open to interpretation. However, there is a rich and detailed mythology surrounding vampires that most people know and ascribe to. Authors often tweak this mythology one way or another, leaving out some things (Charlaine Harris' vampires are visible in reflective surfaces) or adding others (Rice and Whedon's vampires with souls). However, they all stick to the same basic principles and make only minor tweaks.

Myer has thrown out all but one thing that most people understand to be qualities of vampires--they drink blood. I have no problem with the Cullens choosing to drink animal blood (though I think "vegetarian" was a stupid term to use for that) rather than human blood. But they're missing lots of other qualities that define vampires in the mythological sense.

Good literature always borrows from and expands on the stuff that's gone before it. That's why it's so important for writers to read everything they can get their hands on and some stuff they can't. For someone to decide that they're going to completely remake a mythology--and not because the old mythology stinks or doesn't make sense, but because she's too scared to do her research--violates every principle of good writing I've ever heard. Not to mention that she comes off like an arrogant bitca because she refuses to even nod to thousands of years worth of mythology, folklore, and literature.

If Myer had stuck to the traditions with her vampires, I still wouldn't like Twilight because there's lots of other stuff wrong with it, but I hope that helps the vampires-aren't-real debate a bit.

Explain all the major differences please.

First of all, I think 'vegetarian' is actually the correct term because its supposed to be tongue in cheek.

Vampires drink human blood, the 'heroes' choose not to, they choose to not eat the livestock and go for the more human friendly.

This is actually a none-issue because its supposed to be a joke - laugh at it or don't, I know people that don't laugh at the Buffy puns.


Secondly, they 'sparkle' in sunlight.
Right, so this story says they have an adverse reaction to sunlight.
This is within keeping with the whole issues with being out in the sun. There are many takes on Vampires that don't have them combusting in daylight, at least this story has kept the issue with sunlight.

Superhuman strength by stopping the car.
In an episode of Angel (Why we fight I think), a pipe is releasing either gas or steam, so Angel, a vampire, using simply his hand, crushes the reinforced metal to an air tight state as if it was silly putty.
In another episode, Angel, a vampire, falls from the top of a fairly high building and gets up and walks away.

You're gonna have to give me details on the other 'differences' because I can't think of them yet.

Ohh thats right Blondie, you haven't read the books so you're basing your argument on poorly explained, and hugely biased, arguments online!

I do not like the books or the movies, and I have issues with things (including the SPARKLE) but I have no issue with Meyers TRYING a different angle on these things.

 

[Blondie Bear]

Ohh thats right Blondie, you haven't read the books so you're basing your argument on poorly explained, and hugely biased, arguments online!

Actually, no, I'm not. I'm basing it on the opinions of friends, editors, and agents whose opinion I hold in high regard. And as I said, the vampire thing is the least of my issues.

I'm not going to argue this with you. It's a dumb argument to be having, as I said. I was just trying to show people why those of us who take issue with the vampire problem take issue with it.

Cheers.

ETA: As for the "vegetarian" thing, I don't think she was being funny. I've read her blog posts and such, and between those and her "deeply hurt feelings" and "inability to write" over the leak of New Moon, she doesn't seem the type to know how to stick her tongue in her cheek.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Actually, no, I'm not. I'm basing it on the opinions of friends, editors, and agents whose opinion I hold in high regard. And as I said, the vampire thing is the least of my issues.

I'm not going to argue this with you. It's a dumb argument to be having, as I said. I was just trying to show people why those of us who take issue with the vampire problem take issue with it.

Cheers.

ETA: As for the "vegetarian" thing, I don't think she was being funny. I've read her blog posts and such, and between those and her "deeply hurt feelings" and "inability to write" over the leak of New Moon, she doesn't seem the type to know how to stick her tongue in her cheek.

Well yes actually, you are.

You want an opinion, base it on what you read, not what others tell you.

I have a few people whose opinion I highly regard which give me a point of reference, but the simple fact is, I have to view something before I can truly have an opinion.

Its actually getting boring reading people's opinion based on what others have said and not using their own thoughts.

You're an intelligent girl - if you don't want to read the books because others have told you that they are bad, thats fine, but your actual opinion has little to no value then in a discussion like this because you haven't got the context of the actual story.

You've even argued that a particular aspect of the book is wrong (the vampires) when in fact you can't know even though you're friends might have said.
As I have shown, the mythology that she has changed still has some basis, except you argued that the reason people have an issue is that Meyers has totally neglected - she hasn't, she's changed things, altered others, which is just what others do or we'd just be reading Dracula!

As for the vegetarians, well thats your opinion, I choose to believe that she was being tongue in cheek because that makes so much more sense.
Again, whats the actual context of the Vegetarian Vampires quote?

 

[Blondie Bear]

You're entitled to your opinion and your opinion of my opinion. I'm not going to argue this. I'm tired, I don't feel well, and this whole topic pisses me off beyond belief. Also, I'm not one of those people who has to continue to argue just to argue. I don't believe that refusing to argue means I've "lost" anything. So have a nice day; I'm out.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

You're entitled to your opinion and your opinion of my opinion. I'm not going to argue this. I'm tired, I don't feel well, and this whole topic pisses me off beyond belief. Also, I'm not one of those people who has to continue to argue just to argue. I don't believe that refusing to argue means I've "lost" anything. So have a nice day; I'm out.

And yet, after one post saying you won't be arguing this, you then come back with a very thinly veiled attack on me.
You're giving two impressions here right now.

If you're ill, why not pick up a book and relax, maybe one about a vampire that sparkles?

 

[entropy]

You're gonna have to give me details on the other 'differences' because I can't think of them yet.

Ok. Here are some more differences that to me ARE kind of silly IN the movie (since that is all I can talk about because I haven't and I do not plan on reading the books):

1. Edwards supernatural speed: the guy moves like Clark Kent in Smallville or Flash. I mean I could understand fast reflexes like what he did with the apple but the speed he moves at in the woods, come on!

2. The whole spider monkey thing: another superhero power, is he also spiderman with that thing going up the trees with the girl on the back and all 😕


Look, I obviously didn't like the movie and I completely dislike the way she turned the vampire folklore around. And it pisses me off because in total honesty I was hoping to like it, I love vampire stories and I was hoping for a new twist that would make me like them even more than I already do, but one thing is to take a folk/mythical story and make it your own with different details and angles and another thing is to take just the name of the "creature" and turn it into something completely different.

I think Myer intentions were good in a way, which is take something from everyone conceptions and make it fresh and attractive, but she was way TOO ambitious and IMO needless for the story she wanted to tell; since I truly believe all she wanted to give was a "fantasy world" love story with a twist and it didn't turn out that well.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

1. Edwards supernatural speed: the guy moves like Clark Kent in Smallville or Flash. I mean I could understand fast reflexes like what he did with the apple but the speed he moves at in the woods, come on!

I suggest you watch Angel then because there are a few times when he seems to possess super speed.

OK, so first of all, 'supernatural' speed - is that any more believable than anything we've seen with Vampires?
Nope. Also if we take into account that he is super strong and the speed is decided by how he runs, using his super strong legs to push him forward using that momentum to pick up speed - in reality I would argue that strong legs and a thin body would allow high speeds.

2. The whole spider monkey thing: another superhero power, is he also spiderman with that thing going up the trees with the girl on the back and all 😕

You mean that thing that normal people can do, climb!
Trees are not smooth surfaced things, they do allow you to hold on.

Look, I obviously didn't like the movie and I completely dislike the way she turned the vampire folklore around. And it pisses me off because in total honesty I was hoping to like it, I love vampire stories and I was hoping for a new twist that would make me like them even more than I already do, but one thing is to take a folk/mythical story and make it your own with different details and angles and another thing is to take just the name of the "creature" and turn it into something completely different.

Which she hasn't done, she's used Vampires and modified aspects granted, but they aren't that far away from what we've already seen.

I think Myer intentions were good in a way, which is take something from everyone conceptions and make it fresh and attractive, but she was way TOO ambitious and IMO needless for the story she wanted to tell; since I truly believe all she wanted to give was a "fantasy world" love story with a twist and it didn't turn out that well.

I agree that its not a great story, I agree that alot of it is needless and I agree that she wanted some mythical love story that really bores - but I don't think she has done too much to change vampires.

 

[BuffyElevated]

Ok, so when did she ever say that her vampires were vegetarian?? The way Stephenie Myer wrote it, she likens the Cullens to vegetarians. She never comes out and says "Oh they're vegetarian"; there is a difference. As far as not making her vampires just like Anne Rice or Joss Whedon or Bram Stoker or whoever, I love that she did her own little take on the lore and made her vampires different than anything else I've ever read. That's why I wanted to read all the books and see the movie: 'cause I'd never seen anything else like it. 🙂 See, folks, it's called having an imagination. How boring would it be if all vampires were the same, with the same powers and the same strengths and weaknesses?? If everyone tried to stick to everything that was written before them, everything would be a copy of something else and that's not the point of creative writing, key word CREATIVE.
If you want all vampires to be like they are on Buffy or Angel I suggest that you never give anything else a chance and you just stick to watching your DVDs of the shows right there in the comforts of your own home. 'Cause not everyone thinks like someone else, as this post so validly proves my point.

 

[entropy]

I suggest you watch Angel then because there are a few times when he seems to possess super speed.

I did watch it I could give you super strength but super speed? Not that I can recall.

You mean that thing that normal people can do, climb!
Trees are not smooth surfaced things, they do allow you to hold on.

yes we all can climb trees, but the guy was doing it by barely touching the trees, ergo that tells he got some kind of super adherence in his fingers or something like it; only Myer could answer that question 😕

Which she hasn't done, she's used Vampires and modified aspects granted, but they aren't that far away from what we've already seen.

Except for the dragqueen side she gave them under the sun you mean 😀


Anyway, different points of view. Still that doesn't mean that if she eventually comes up with a good idea in the future I would not read her book. Again, I think she meant well, and indeed went for a new approach so for that she has my respect but ONLY for that!

 

[Tasha]

ah this is went to far, lmfao.
yes the film wasnt that good,
the twilight series is suppose to be mainly about bloody romance, between a vampire and a normal girl. the whole risk of losing someone whom you love, and trying to live with complicated sircumstances.
i loved the love triangle between thm.
who bloody cares if stephanie changes the way vampires look, who cares that vampires arent the same as they are in angel/buffy/films. if you can't accept a different
perspective, whats the point being naive.
if you dont like it fine, but alot of people do like it. look how much bloody money it made.
i do think its more a teeny book though, maybe thts how i enjoyed it.





vampires are a relevant theme in twilight, but myer just wanted to do her own thing. leave her alone ;D

ha sorry for the rant.



oh yeah kristen stewarts voice did my box in D:!

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I did watch it I could give you super strength but super speed? Not that I can recall.

I suggest you rewatch it because there are times when Angel either has super speed or he has the ability to transport himself instantaneously from somewhere to somewhere else.

And I don't mean in the Illyria episodes.

yes we all can climb trees, but the guy was doing it by barely touching the trees, ergo that tells he got some kind of super adherence in his fingers or something like it; only Myer could answer that question 😕

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5RITTWiz-c"]YouTube - Tree climbing (super fast)[/ame]

So now we can see that doing it at speed is fine.

The explanation for the seemingly finger-tipped climb.
Its not hard to imagine that the fingers were catching something (trees as I said rarely have smooth surfaces) and the speed and momentum carry him on on the few where a finger misses a nook/bump AND he also has super strength so his fingers an hold his weight alot easier.

Except for the dragqueen side she gave them under the sun you mean 😀

What you mean the fact that the body reacts to sunlight BUT doesn't erupt into a pile of ash?
As I have already said before, she isn't the ONLY one to suggest that Vampires don't burn up in the sunlight, she just has given a different take on WHY they don't stand out in it.
I think its laughable that they sparkle BUT I don't have an issue that she tried something.

 

[Mesektet Ra]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41OixAKZQWQ]Twilight - The Broodening[/ame]

Watch. LOL. It's pretty epic.

Also:

1] I hate Twilight.
2] No, I haven't read it or watched the movie.
3] No, I don't feel like defending my reasons why.
4] No, no one's going to get me to think any differently.

kthxbai.

 

[Airam]

^^^ Hmmm, so no offense intended really, but I have a hard time seeing what the point of posting that and your comments was... I can completely appreciate a parody, but that was poorly made and I really failed to see the humor at all, and probably cause it was made by someone, who like you, has never read the books or seen the movie, yet still feel the need to poke fun at it... I just don't get that. I mean you admitted that you hate it just for hating it sake, so yeah you couldn't possibly defend your reasons why because you can't, you don't have a reason for hating it other than you want to say you hate it. Which is cool, you can of course chose to hate whatever you like, but it does come off a little silly when you comment on it.

Ugh man, I almost don't want to post this cause I don't want to come across as argumentative or bitchy, I just REALLY don't get this line of thinking. I mean, before I was talked into reading the books and consequently became a fan, I was pretty vocal about not wanting to read them cause I didn't think I'd like them, but I never would've said I hate it, it sucks because how could I hate it, I had absolutely no intelligeble knowledge about it. I just thought cause of the hype and the teeny bopper stigma surrounding it that there was no way it would be for me and that I'd get sucked in, as it turns out, I was wrong.

Anyway, blah, whatever.

 

[Mesektet Ra]

^^^ Hmmm, so no offense intended really, but I have a hard time seeing what the point of posting that and your comments was... I can completely appreciate a parody, but that was poorly made and I really failed to see the humor at all, and probably cause it was made by someone, who like you, has never read the books or seen the movie, yet still feel the need to poke fun at it... I just don't get that. I mean you admitted that you hate it just for hating it sake, so yeah you couldn't possibly defend your reasons why because you can't, you don't have a reason for hating it other than you want to say you hate it. Which is cool, you can of course chose to hate whatever you like, but it does come off a little silly when you comment on it.

Ugh man, I almost don't want to post this cause I don't want to come across as argumentative or bitchy, I just REALLY don't get this line of thinking. I mean, before I was talked into reading the books and consequently became a fan, I was pretty vocal about not wanting to read them cause I didn't think I'd like them, but I never would've said I hate it, it sucks because how could I hate it, I had absolutely no intelligeble knowledge about it. I just thought cause of the hype and the teeny bopper stigma surrounding it that there was no way it would be for me and that I'd get sucked in, as it turns out, I was wrong.

Anyway, blah, whatever.

I have my reasons for hating it. I could explain them to you ad nausem if I felt like it, which I don't, because I've explained them at least seven hundred other times in the seven hundred other Twilight threads created on this board alone. So. I don't hate it for hating it's sake, rest assured.

Also, the guy saw the movie and decided to point out the plot holes in it, which is why it's so frakking hilarious. I highly doubt he did it because he felt like it.

And to comment on the fact that 'people just don't understand why people can hate something without trying it/reading it/doing it first': PEOPLE DO THIS ALL THE TIME. I highly doubt you're the kind of person who honestly withholds judgment until you've tried it/done it whatever first. If you are, well by golly gee, you're a saint. I'm not.

 

[Perny]

^Duuuuude....I'm with the crazy chick on this

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

And to comment on the fact that 'people just don't understand why people can hate something without trying it/reading it/doing it first': PEOPLE DO THIS ALL THE TIME. I highly doubt you're the kind of person who honestly withholds judgment until you've tried it/done it whatever first. If you are, well by golly gee, you're a saint. I'm not.

There is a difference between thinking 'I'm not gonna like that' without seeing it and thus deciding not to see it, than saying 'Eugh, I hate it even though I haven't seen it'.

Personally, I think just makes people look foolish, and it seems there are a few fools in this thread.

 

[Tasha]

haa even james marsters has read twilight
and enjoyed it.

bet you haters are all gutted 😛PP

 

[Perny]

^ Should the fact that James enjoyed it, make us "haters" feel bad?
It just means that the hot guy has a flaw...And we can live with that.

I don't feel gutted :s

 

[BuffyElevated]

WOW... I think it's utterly stupid to say you hate Twilight without ever having read one of the books or seen the movie at all. Just my opinion... Hating something for the sake of hating it because it's different is pointless and narrowminded. And now, before I lose a friend or piss off everyone, I'm going to stop posting in here.