This is a hard one and i think you'll all agree with me. But overall i think BTVS is probally my favourite because being a girl i can connect with Buffy on a certain level because she's a girl. I'd like to here some of your opinions.
Ultimately what is better, BTVS or ATVS?
- Thread starter slayer07
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Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
The title of the thread is not the question you have answered.
You asked what IS better but you've answered which is your favourite.
I know it's a small point but they are two very distinct questions regarding two very different shows.
Which one are you hoping people will answer?
You asked what IS better but you've answered which is your favourite.
I know it's a small point but they are two very distinct questions regarding two very different shows.
Which one are you hoping people will answer?
Jade In The Sky
Away
lol Well, my answer to both questions is Buffy. 🙂 But I will explain some other time...Okay, that wouldn't be fair. *thinking hard despite the need to sleep*. I consider BtVS better in terms of suspense and character development. In terms of actor abilites and actor choice they are equal. The cast in both shows is great lol I remember James Marsters saying how cool it was going into the boy's team...I didn't get what he meant until I saw ATVS and I thought wow. Mostly because of David and Alex but the rest were great too. Oh and if the criteria is impact ( how the show enriched your life ) BtVS beats ATVS again. 🙂
Hawke
Xander's Bad Eye
I have to go with BTVS. Though I love ATVS (I started wathcing that then found Buffy) and think that it is the coolest darkest show ever, BTVS strikes a bigger cord in me and has impacted me in so many amazing ways. Angel is great, but I very rarley pulled life lessons from the show. Its stories where awesome and intense but did not have the emotional depth that Buffy's did. BTVS is way better, hands down. "Go, B!"
sharkshark
Townie
I agree, these are very different questions. My favorite of the two is ATVS but choosing the "better" of the two, I would say BTVS.
Senior Watcher
~*VH Secret Handshakes*~
I want to preface my answer by saying that BtVS and AtVS are my top two shows of all time. I feel the preface is necessary given that choosing which one is better is like saying, "what do you like better, Star Wars or Lord of the Rings."
Anyway, I would have to say that BtVS is better than AtVS, but not by much. The main reason is that BtVS has 7 seasons and AtVS only has 5. The 2 extra seasons offered more character development and more story lines. Plus, BtVS had nice closure at its series finale; AtVS ended with a cliffhanger.
Anyway, I would have to say that BtVS is better than AtVS, but not by much. The main reason is that BtVS has 7 seasons and AtVS only has 5. The 2 extra seasons offered more character development and more story lines. Plus, BtVS had nice closure at its series finale; AtVS ended with a cliffhanger.
J
Jade In The Sky
lol go Star Wars go Star Wars...I'm kidding, I love SW, LOTR, HP and oh the Matrix as well!!
white avenger
white avenger
On the whole, I preferred Buffy to Angel. In fact, I never watched Angel on a regular basis until Season 5. I have since bought the entire series on dvd, and enjoyed seeing them all. Still, Angel just doesn't have the same fire that Buffy had, though the last season was an improvement over the previous four.
S
Senior Watcher
i agree. i think that S5 was almost a completely different series. another "spinoff" if you will.
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
See I'll say my favourite is ATVS.
It just appeals to me more because it has that more adult nature.
It comprises different story narratives as well.
Season 1 was kinda like a Film Noir, season 2 went more musical. Buffy, though great, held the same line and though it dared go places on an episodic level, it rarely deviated on that.
Angel went far darker than Buffy, even though there were some really dark moments in Buffy.
Better in context of being made, i'm going to say Angel again.
We have some great character journeys in Buffy, mainly Spike and Willow BUT these are equalled by the development of Wes and Cordy and, as someone pointed out, this show was only 5 seasons.
Add to that the lead characters. Where Cordy and Wes equal Spike and Willow, Angel surpasses Buffy quite easily. Don't get me wrong, i'm not taking anything away from Buffy, I just felt we learned so much more of the Vamps motivations, his character past and to an extent where he will go that Buffy's kinda pales in comparison.
Angel, Wes and Cordy, though originally Buffy guys, did most of their growing on Angel.
We then have some great turns from Gunn, Fred, Lorne and even the likes of Lilah and Lindsay. These characters were far more compelling than some of the back ups on Buffy.
Yes we had Anya, Tara and Xander, Joyce, Giles and the season Big Bads that had some of the great episodes, but sometimes these guys had this kind of saccarine feel.
We have the likes of Darla that made a fantastic impact on the show, one off characters like Jheira, Gwen(couple off), the telekinetic girl that was abused by her father and the wonderful 'Anne', I think its easy to see why I believe Angel is the better show.
It just appeals to me more because it has that more adult nature.
It comprises different story narratives as well.
Season 1 was kinda like a Film Noir, season 2 went more musical. Buffy, though great, held the same line and though it dared go places on an episodic level, it rarely deviated on that.
Angel went far darker than Buffy, even though there were some really dark moments in Buffy.
Better in context of being made, i'm going to say Angel again.
We have some great character journeys in Buffy, mainly Spike and Willow BUT these are equalled by the development of Wes and Cordy and, as someone pointed out, this show was only 5 seasons.
Add to that the lead characters. Where Cordy and Wes equal Spike and Willow, Angel surpasses Buffy quite easily. Don't get me wrong, i'm not taking anything away from Buffy, I just felt we learned so much more of the Vamps motivations, his character past and to an extent where he will go that Buffy's kinda pales in comparison.
Angel, Wes and Cordy, though originally Buffy guys, did most of their growing on Angel.
We then have some great turns from Gunn, Fred, Lorne and even the likes of Lilah and Lindsay. These characters were far more compelling than some of the back ups on Buffy.
Yes we had Anya, Tara and Xander, Joyce, Giles and the season Big Bads that had some of the great episodes, but sometimes these guys had this kind of saccarine feel.
We have the likes of Darla that made a fantastic impact on the show, one off characters like Jheira, Gwen(couple off), the telekinetic girl that was abused by her father and the wonderful 'Anne', I think its easy to see why I believe Angel is the better show.
StuckinTraffic
Miss Treager
I love them both, but I have to go with Angel. Like BotD said, it was more adult in nature. The character development was better, imho, because Angel had less time than Buffy to develop characters, and yet managed to take them all on a great journey. The characters actually changed, became something other than what they started out to be, which to me.....actually mirrors life. Buffy grew up, sure...stuff happened to her and she reacted...but she was fundamentally the same person in Chosen as she was in Welcome to the Hellmouth, albeit more worldly. Some of the characters on Buffy changed, Willow, Dawn....for instance. But they were mostly static...you knew how they were going to react in any given situation. With Angel, when he went that very dark place that culminated in Epiphany.....everything was up in the air. I was surprised by the events of Reprise and Epiphany, up till that point, I wouldn't have thought Angel capable of his actions. It turns out that the possibilities were endless.
E
Edmund Blackadder
definitely agree
Jade In The Sky
Away
I'd have to disagree with both of you.
I don't think that character development has anything to do with the fact whether the show is with more adult or let's say youth nature. More likeable because of the adult nature okay, but to underesimate the inner changes of characters between 17 and 22 is not right. The characters in Buffy including herself grew up in many levels - whether it's Willow or Dawn or Xander or anybody actually. Yes, they didn't deal with some of the problems the characters in Angel did but that doesn't make ATVS better.
Yes, Wes's character growth is undeniable, he is one heck of a character. Cordy as well. But as a whole I don't think that ATVS were written so well, actually they seem static to me 🙂 I think the writers tried to overdramatize, especially in season 4 which I am watching right now. How I see it, they screw up some great possibilities. They could take a lot more, especially from Gunn, Lorne and Fred.
As a kid, I used to think that a person can change so much that in some point he'll be unrecognizable. But what I see in life is exactly the opposite. Fundamentally, a person cannot change his core, he can only develop his qualities and aquire some new ones ( which will be a minority 😛 ) . So when I think of Buffy at the beginning and at the end of the show, I see somebody who has a clearer vision of theirselves, of who they are, of their evaluation system. More peaceful and confident, relying more on other people than herself etc. For me, that's a hell of a growth and it's the most important think that can be shown for a show reflecting the life of young people. It's the same for the characters of Willow, Spike, Xander and Dawn.
I don't think that character development has anything to do with the fact whether the show is with more adult or let's say youth nature. More likeable because of the adult nature okay, but to underesimate the inner changes of characters between 17 and 22 is not right. The characters in Buffy including herself grew up in many levels - whether it's Willow or Dawn or Xander or anybody actually. Yes, they didn't deal with some of the problems the characters in Angel did but that doesn't make ATVS better.
Yes, Wes's character growth is undeniable, he is one heck of a character. Cordy as well. But as a whole I don't think that ATVS were written so well, actually they seem static to me 🙂 I think the writers tried to overdramatize, especially in season 4 which I am watching right now. How I see it, they screw up some great possibilities. They could take a lot more, especially from Gunn, Lorne and Fred.
As a kid, I used to think that a person can change so much that in some point he'll be unrecognizable. But what I see in life is exactly the opposite. Fundamentally, a person cannot change his core, he can only develop his qualities and aquire some new ones ( which will be a minority 😛 ) . So when I think of Buffy at the beginning and at the end of the show, I see somebody who has a clearer vision of theirselves, of who they are, of their evaluation system. More peaceful and confident, relying more on other people than herself etc. For me, that's a hell of a growth and it's the most important think that can be shown for a show reflecting the life of young people. It's the same for the characters of Willow, Spike, Xander and Dawn.
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
I don't disagree that there was some growth, internally, of the characters, but what I do disagree with is "Fundamentally, a person cannot change his core, he can only develop his qualities and aquire some new ones".
It is in our nature to grow and learn and evolve and add to our core beliefs. We change almost on a daily basis.
The point with Buffy and Co is that save the BIG 2(Willow and Spike) the characters, In my opinion, react to situations exactly as you would imagine them to. You are definitely no where near complete at 16(using this as the basis as the characters were 16 when it started). You may feel a certain way about something, but over time this will change, evolve. When these core parts to your being change, you change. Wesley is the greatest example of this.
He went through the mill learning and understanding. Taking his core beliefs and evolving them.
Neither show had it spot on, heck I would love to have seen more of the Fred from season 4 when she was all on her own in the Jasmine part of the arc and don't get me started on wasted potential in Xander.
But I didn't just base my reasoning on character development.
The underlying theme of LA was darker, it lent itself to a murkier place than Buffy did.
This was explored really well.
The reason I believe Angel is better is because it managed to deal with all all the characters and do some of the great storylines.
Buffy had some great arcs, Willow was brilliant, but again an opinion the greatest, best developed story was the Darla one on Angel and the best, most real, villain was by far Wolfram and Hart.
It is in our nature to grow and learn and evolve and add to our core beliefs. We change almost on a daily basis.
The point with Buffy and Co is that save the BIG 2(Willow and Spike) the characters, In my opinion, react to situations exactly as you would imagine them to. You are definitely no where near complete at 16(using this as the basis as the characters were 16 when it started). You may feel a certain way about something, but over time this will change, evolve. When these core parts to your being change, you change. Wesley is the greatest example of this.
He went through the mill learning and understanding. Taking his core beliefs and evolving them.
Neither show had it spot on, heck I would love to have seen more of the Fred from season 4 when she was all on her own in the Jasmine part of the arc and don't get me started on wasted potential in Xander.
But I didn't just base my reasoning on character development.
The underlying theme of LA was darker, it lent itself to a murkier place than Buffy did.
This was explored really well.
The reason I believe Angel is better is because it managed to deal with all all the characters and do some of the great storylines.
Buffy had some great arcs, Willow was brilliant, but again an opinion the greatest, best developed story was the Darla one on Angel and the best, most real, villain was by far Wolfram and Hart.
R
Randy Giles
I COMPLETELY agree. People change every single day, and that's our purpose, and I always want to smack people who think you can't change who you are.
Honestly both shows are very good but have alot of flaws that put them on equal terms making it hard for me to choose a winner.
Buffy stuck to its central core and was very consistent however i felt as though it eneded too quickly. Because of this season7 kinda sucked except for when it some of the begining episodes and the last few episodes . In between the begining ad the end it was kind of dull. I think Buffy should have lasted 10 seasons and because season 6 was a great start at something dark they could have taken off from there and had a much darker adult themed seasons 7-10 . i would have kept the potential plotline for season 10 tho and have it less dragged out.
Angel i think can be watched by a more broader audience however the show itself kinda got a little crazy in terms of writing begining of season 4. season 5 was a nice save from a rather erraticand confusing season 4 however it got cancelled. Because of the cancellation a wase of so much potential for next seasons really make me mad (MORE SPECIFFICALLY ILLYRIA) Also the ending of Angel sucked. iI seriously think that Joss could have found a better way to end it. Another thing Angel did that was bad was kill off most of the cast which i mean is ok but so long as we get to know the charcters a little better. So much is left for character development in both shows that i think they both are on equal terms as of quality but very different in terms of presentation
Buffy stuck to its central core and was very consistent however i felt as though it eneded too quickly. Because of this season7 kinda sucked except for when it some of the begining episodes and the last few episodes . In between the begining ad the end it was kind of dull. I think Buffy should have lasted 10 seasons and because season 6 was a great start at something dark they could have taken off from there and had a much darker adult themed seasons 7-10 . i would have kept the potential plotline for season 10 tho and have it less dragged out.
Angel i think can be watched by a more broader audience however the show itself kinda got a little crazy in terms of writing begining of season 4. season 5 was a nice save from a rather erraticand confusing season 4 however it got cancelled. Because of the cancellation a wase of so much potential for next seasons really make me mad (MORE SPECIFFICALLY ILLYRIA) Also the ending of Angel sucked. iI seriously think that Joss could have found a better way to end it. Another thing Angel did that was bad was kill off most of the cast which i mean is ok but so long as we get to know the charcters a little better. So much is left for character development in both shows that i think they both are on equal terms as of quality but very different in terms of presentation
can you elaborate more on how you thought Xander had wasted potential. and also can you say what more would you have wanted to see from Fred on her own in the Jasmine arc. Also can you state any other characters that you felt had wasted potential like Xander and what would you have liked to seen them go with that character and also some other story arcs like Fred's solo Jasmine arc ,that you felt could have been elaborated on more.
anyatara
Scooby
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I could never choose. I came into Buffy first, and I absloutley adore it, But I love Angel. Having sad that, the storylines in Angel sometimes get a bit dark for my liking, but I still love it. If I HAD to choose, I'd probably say Buffy, because I understand the ideas behind things more.
Ok BTVS is better because of the acting quality(srah michelle gellar)and i think that the stories that they come up for each episode are enitrely different and amazing every time.Alsso BTVS tend to have more fighting in it and less talking but dont get me wrong Buffy has had some well thought out puns that she's just splirted out in the face of danger. So BTV is my favourite amd better.
Your Creamy Coolness
Your Scrumptiousness
I can't seperate...I think they are perfect mates and compliment one another. Shh..though..Buffy will always be a bit more special
Personally I tend to lob both shows together, I can't really picture one without the other. But, if I had to say which was better I think its Buffy. Part of the reason is because I could relate to it far more than Angel but mainly becuase I feel Buffy was far more consistant. There is alot of talk of weak seasons but truly when you watch them back there isn't one. Angel on the other hand I have HUGE issues with season 3 and 4. The majority of the story lines were either unbeliveable (cordy and angel...Please!!) or annoying (Connor!!...out annoys Dawn! something I thought impossible!!) and the whole Cordy/Beast/Jasmine arc was an insult to the viewers, it was half assed and badly thought out and the treatment of Cordelia as a character was in my opinion a disgrace.
BlancheDubois
Townie
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I've been pondering this a bit recently. I prefer Buffy overall but there are some elements of Angel I prefer. I think S5 of Angel is better than S7 Buffy and I do like the dramatic story lines and plot twists in Angel. But then you have some bits which are harder to grasp like the Cordie-Angel thing or that rubbishy Jasmine.
Kean
I agree...my thoughts on the latter are above...Jasmine was baaaaad!!!
palabravampiress
Bidet of Evil
I like both shows, but I prefer Buffy. I can't decide which show I think is better from a technical or artistic standpoint. That will require me to write a research paper or something. 🙂
I, personally, am more drawn to characters than to any other aspect of a TV show. To me, the characters on both shows felt as if they were very realistically rendered. But on Buffy, they felt like friends by the time it was all said and done. I felt a connection. On Angel, I never really felt that same connection. The characters seemed a bit more distant. Don't get me wrong; I think some of the characters on Angel took some amazing journeys. Watching Wes mature was and change was absolutely beautiful. I'm just saying that the characters on Buffy seemed a little more open to the viewer (or to me, anyway).
Also, Buffy felt consistent from season 1 to season 7. Sure, there were some things I didn't like, but I always felt like I was watching the same show. On Angel, every season and even some of the arcs within the various seasons made me feel like I had to reacquaint myself with the show all over again.
Ultimately, though, it's hard for me to distinguish between the two shows. In many ways, Angel's show was perfect for his character and Buffy's show was perfect for her character. I think the differences in tone, structure, style, characterization, etc. between the two shows reflect on the differences between the two title characters. Both shows were great.
I, personally, am more drawn to characters than to any other aspect of a TV show. To me, the characters on both shows felt as if they were very realistically rendered. But on Buffy, they felt like friends by the time it was all said and done. I felt a connection. On Angel, I never really felt that same connection. The characters seemed a bit more distant. Don't get me wrong; I think some of the characters on Angel took some amazing journeys. Watching Wes mature was and change was absolutely beautiful. I'm just saying that the characters on Buffy seemed a little more open to the viewer (or to me, anyway).
Also, Buffy felt consistent from season 1 to season 7. Sure, there were some things I didn't like, but I always felt like I was watching the same show. On Angel, every season and even some of the arcs within the various seasons made me feel like I had to reacquaint myself with the show all over again.
Ultimately, though, it's hard for me to distinguish between the two shows. In many ways, Angel's show was perfect for his character and Buffy's show was perfect for her character. I think the differences in tone, structure, style, characterization, etc. between the two shows reflect on the differences between the two title characters. Both shows were great.