Uluru climb closed for good

[November]

Redirect Notice

At 4pm, no new climbers were allowed to ascend, while those already on the rock had until sunset to find their way down.

From now on, climbing will be punishable by a $6,300 fine.

Chair of the board that banned the climb, Sammy Wilson, described the prohibition as a cause for celebration.

“If I travel to another country and there is a sacred site, an area of restricted access, I don’t enter or climb it, I respect it,” Wilson — a member of the Anangu tribe — said.

“It is the same here for Anangu. We welcome tourists here. We are not stopping tourism, just this activity.”

What do you think? Is it disrespectful to have climbed?

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Regulations say you can't climb it, nothing about getting down it though. Anyone for a helicopter ride to the top.

I don't hold with the claims of it being a religious icon even though the Aboriginal faith is pagan, (shamanism) there is a bigger rock closer to the coast for all those who want to see if they have a heart defect.

 

[November]

Yeah, its a bit of a hot topic here right now. Its a bit different to being an ancient burial site or a built site, it's a natural site claimed for religious reasons. Whats good for one wouldn't be allowed for another. I really cant find much info on the beliefs of the area, but the appeal of visiting is gone for me personally. Some here disagree with tourists climbing the mountains, I wouldn't visit them just to walk around the bottom either.

But, as you say, its not like there aren't any other rocks of appeal. I'd give this one a go -

Mt Augustus Tourist Park

The advertising for other sacred sites seems to have ramped up. Could this desert track be Australia's next great outback adventure? I hope WA jumps at its chance to cash in on outback adventures, up north wants, and needs it. Getting people interacting with nature and spirituality is the best way to have them appreciate it.

 

[Professor Walsh]

The world is full of mountains we can climb. Nobody can climb them all in a lifetime. Why some insist on climbing a location where it is important to a lot of the local people that they don't climb is strange to me. As you say, Octavia, it is not as if though it is the only attractive place to climb.

 

[November]

Some of the backlash comes from the beliefs now differing to what they were when traditional owners were giving guided tours for cash in times gone past. Other tribes saying many different people used the place as a landmark and watering hole, that it had been a place to pass through, not belonging to one mob. The monolith had become a symbol of the Australian outback, no one else had a rock that big 😛

The racism has probably rubbed off on me living where I do. It is hard to ignore the abuse, alcoholism and filth of the communities. I absolutely believe the generational trauma impacts the quality and choices available, but there are quite obviously some groups pulling the piss, which isnt helping anyone. Its tough to know which are genuine. Large regions of sacred land in less pretty places gets sold to the highest bidder. Mining is destroying some of the most ancient human art ever seen, but it hasn't had the publicity this has. Enough money keeps anyone quiet in any religion.

I hope it doesn't push the area further into poverty, the appeal of visiting has been erroded for some time. I expect to see this stuff in media for a while, with the environmental protection push, somone is going to have to clean up the landowners dwellings (which are offlimits to tourists, the realities are too shocking for them). The hotel services at other outback landmarks are not nearly as polished, so it certainly wont stop being a tourist destination for overseas visitors. It could be great for my state, if the value of the space is noticed. Mobs here are screaming for the chance at a tourist income.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

If you have a good look at the 'rock' you'll notice that bits have broken off it so it isn't just one rock anymore. Also back in the 1980's the Aborigines stated they cared for the land they didn't own it, now they own stuff.

 

[Taake]

If you have a good look at the 'rock' you'll notice that bits have broken off it so it isn't just one rock anymore.

Might be why they don't wish people to climb it anymore?

 

[November]

Its far more political than that. I didn't realise how simplistic it seems to outsiders. The scale of the rock is huge. There is very little damage done by climbing the rock. More environmental damage is done by the waste, which does not all come from tourists. Its hard to explain how filthy some of the outback towns are to those who have never seen one. The poverty is extreme. I am not sure why there are not more from the area employed and paid for their contributions - this decision would have been very, very different if the local community was better supported. I doubt the climb would have been closed if the locals had been given more generous royalties, as the mining mobs are.

This particular community was targeted about a decade ago after reports of horrendous sexual violence. The army went in to clean it up and the whole area was one of the first put on to basics cards to restrict access to alcohol, petrol and pornography. It has not been forgiven. Its hard to know if any benefit has come from it. Many of the articles I read over the last few years on the topic are no longer available. My neighbours (Elders), say the children are trained not to tell mob "secrets", even when kids as young as 5 have been turning up in remote clinics for decades for treatment of sexually transmitted diseases. No one knows what to do. There has been huge amounts of money thrown around town but little improvement in the quality of life. It goes deeper than the religious celebrations presented about the closure.

Every national park here has laws against removing bits of it, you're not even supposed to take shells from the beach. Uluru even has laws against taking photos of it. Unfortunately, people break the law and do take bits. That isn't going to come to an end since you are still allowed to touch and walk around the bottom of it. I read an article about people from overseas sending the rocks back in the mail. As I said, I don't think it will impact overseas tourism much but it has driven a wedge further between Australian relations. Between those who know the ever changing history. Its quite amazing to watch how it has all evolved over my life time. In these hot states, things have only appeared to get worse. I can only do what I do where I am, but this move could cause some real problems in the future for other natural places that run on the tourist dollar. Start something on twitter and it gets going quicker than wildfire. I've already read reports of families who do the drive skipping over the red centre all together now, people from here go to these places to experience them, not just to look at them. Hopefully WA groups have this in mind, it seems they do, and we can pick up those who want the experience.

I can't see the closure helping their community escape the poverty and trauma cycle as claimed.

 

[Taake]

Its far more political than that. I didn't realise how simplistic it seems to outsiders. The scale of the rock is huge. There is very little damage done by climbing the rock.

But does the scale of damage matter if you consider it sacred? Even little damage is a lot when you care on that level, no?

Since I don't know how this will effect the economics of the region I won't say anything about that, I'll just trust that the Anangu tribe knows what's best for them more than I do.
If the question is - is it disrespectful to climb a site considered sacred and where it is prohibited to climb? Then I'll say yes.
If the questions is - how will this hurt the tourism and social conditions of the area - then I can only back away and hope people better informed can find a happy balance.

 

[November]

But does the scale of damage matter if you consider it sacred? Even little damage is a lot when you care on that level, no?

I read a really good quote addressing this, but cant remember where I read it! Bugger, cos it would have said it better than me! Something along the lines of - the healing of the money can outweigh the sores of the sacred hurt.

The suffering these people have gone through is truly horrendous, at times I cant help but wonder if the handback was a token effort - a way to tap out. The sacred law has changed as the local community has further suffered, watching the wealthy come in drinking champagne while they live in squalor in restricted communities. Many do not think the climb will remain closed if the money is good enough. I sort of think the government are over it now, they wont send more support to this site, it will go elsewhere and the people will continue to struggle. Maybe they were already there and spirit is all they have left.

If the question is - is it disrespectful to climb a site considered sacred and where it is prohibited to climb? Then I'll say yes.

I had hoped to expand on the topic as I know long initial posts rarely get much feedback. Starting it simple in the hope for further discussion. Thanks for the response 🙂

It is tough to wade through this all. Many areas where roads are put in are considered sacred, they were protested but bulldosed anyway, so is it also disrespectful to drive on them? The spiritual side does not count equally everywhere, and certainly not for any other religions in the country. Sites with cultural significance elsewhere have been/are being destroyed with no fuss, communities have been sated by money, even when they were man made (rock art) - not just naturally occurring. It opens a whole can of worms. Now I think on it and have discussed it a bit I realise its not going to matter until someone cries loud enough. The bulk of the aboriginal culture has been lost. The bulk of colonised culture is destroyed. Its confusing how one can matter more than another depending on the decade.

I know the elders don't want people climbing the mountains where I am, there is no signage or anyone saying it is prohibited. It was a deeply spiritual experience to me - is that a wrong doing? I am right on board with visitors showing respect to the area by not littering, getting "Buff on the bluff" or vandalism but I just don't see the act of following the footsteps of ancient people on a natural mountain to be disrespectful. In fact I appreciate the area far more now, work to protect it and improve the lives of the traditional caretakers.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

I have a greater respect for the Aboriginals who keep to their original beliefs, not so for those who adopt mainstream beliefs.
Original beliefs are nature based and those folk try to care for sacred sites. How many of the mainstream beliefs let people climb their churches so why were people allowed to climb the aboriginal sacred sites?

Spanky How are the issues of the Australian Aboriginals mirror the issues of the Native Americans?

 

[thrasherpix]

Heh, I just had the images of Aborigines (or anyone for that matter) climbing the Apostolic Palace in Vatican City (and maybe taking a few souvenirs). I bet it would be a lot more dangerous than climbing Uluru, though.

 

[November]

Original beliefs are nature based and those folk try to care for sacred sites. How many of the mainstream beliefs let people climb their churches so why were people allowed to climb the aboriginal sacred sites?

Heh, I just had the images of Aborigines (or anyone for that matter) climbing the Apostolic Palace in Vatican City (and maybe taking a few souvenirs). I bet it would be a lot more dangerous than climbing Uluru, though.

Some tweeters (I read in the news articles) used this as an argument for not climbing, but Vatican City is a built site. Plus there are actually cathedrals, churches and religious sites they let you climb on top of all over the world. Its not the same as climbing a naturally occurring site, at all. Uluru was here before man was, according to current scientific knowledge.

(PS. The word "Aborigines" is not a correct term, but it could depend where you are. I get confused by the ever changing terminology as well. I'd get a smack in the face here if I said that word.)

I have a greater respect for the Aboriginals who keep to their original beliefs, not so for those who adopt mainstream beliefs.

Many of the original beliefs are lost, so the spiritual practices are being re-built as the people are receiving it [from the spiritual realm] in current time. I went to a lecture about it in March. It was interesting, and I do believe in modern spiritual connections to the land.

As you said, the land was never owned. They were caretakers of what was created. Caretaking does not have to mean making all sites off limits - it could mean explaining and welcoming the significance of the site in person instead of leaving it up to signage and news articles. It could mean bringing guests into a "thanks" ceremony, or sharing traditional meals, it could mean so much more that would positively impact everyone visiting. Instead of "this is mine and you cant touch it" which does fly in the face of the widely, long held belief that no one owns anything.

This is how "Welcome to Country" is explained. It was not practised before the 70's (the farming families who settled this area here say it was never a thing, that Ernie Dingo, an actor, made it up at an arts festival as a joke, and it caught on). These sorts of ceremonies could be paying for a better life for the people living in the shadow of the rock. Keeps the spirit strong and is not hard work. Here is an article from 2016 that threatens to close the rock if the community is not paid. It was not paid. I absolutely know on a individual level they are not provided with enough to survive well in modern life. I do not know if there are barriers to gaining employment in the tourism industry there, or why it exploits culture. I worked on a tourism farm for while, where we had Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander artists who had absolutely no issue in sharing culture for a pay check (but these guys came from over east, which is a whole different ball park than WA/NT relations).

Spanky It's really interesting how these issues tend to mirror the issues with Native Americans here

I am starting to bore of the topic (as I do haha) but YES. It IS interesting.

It does get me thinking in a loop. Is it all because we are all racist so the same issues are coming up? Or is it just what happens to conquered cultures that are thrown into a society they don't know how to cope in? A clash of ancient and modern practices. It is a fact that many issues here do not arise until it has been seen in the US media (BLM for example) but also a fact that similar issues are faced. No one arked up about Roe 8 (a proposed highway) until it happened with that pipeline in the USA.

I do feel that people have been unfairly treated and do deserve better in this society, but the way this unfolds, closing sites that have become national icons, drives hate, not compassion or understanding. The respect is being further lost instead of nourished. Twitter would have you believe differently but election results show the true harm. Its not getting better for Aboriginal people, the dry communities and Opal (non-sniffable petrol) has just evolved into chroming and meth use. The restrictions and basics cards are a ploy to drive people off the land and into cities, yet the media reports that the communities are thankful for the limits. Its confusing too because of how different each language group can be within the one country. There are photographs of aboriginal women climbing the rock, long before it was deemed a thing never done.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

So Octavia, what are you in favour of, as your post seems to be coming from both sides.