Us Healthcare Debate

[Revolver]

It's no wonder Americans are confused about healthcare. Look how crappy our news networks are!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ewBIWqJY8w"]YouTube - Glenn Beck's Bizarre Rant Against Obama's Healthcare Plan[/ame]

 

[Crashing Doors]

Silum agrees: I actually consider myself republican... and that spiel was honestly sickening!! Urgh, that some retard would buy into this shit....sad really "...were not europe yet" oh dear god if you could comprehend an existance beyond your own... shame.

Aghh... that kind of made me a little bit mad. Sound a little hypocritical. But, whatever.

 

[Silum]

Aghh... that kind of made me a little bit mad. Sound a little hypocritical. But, whatever.

Since I dont actually know what your on about its hard for me make you any less mad to be honest. Hypocritical? What that i'm republican? I'm just not so tied to party policies that I dont have my own opinion.

As for his spiel...
"turning America into a hybrid between France and Venezuela"
"taking Chrysler and turning it into fiat" (you wish! Fiat is profitable!)
"taking the beacon of freedom and turning it into a 'what can you do for me' wanna be european socialist wonderland"

...Sorry, I'm not about to listen to that crap again just for more quotes, if you don't see the fear mongering in all that, well, whatever. There's only so much pissing on other countries I can take.

---------- Post added at 01:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:00 PM ----------

Probably best to skip most of the commentators view (although he speaks the truth imo) and just listen to 'Glen Becks' opinion on his radio show...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA7-BvVDV10"]YouTube - Glenn Beck Loses His Mind On A Caller About Healthcare[/ame]

And an intriguing comment right at the top...

axiomsrs (2 hours ago)
I don't have health care becaue I can't afford it. But I have to tell you I would rather die than have socialized health care in this country.

^^^ see, that someone who's bought into it, that socialized healthcare is actually worse than dying. 🙄

 

[Grey Ghost]

Seeing as I'm not from the States I didn't vote. But if it were on UK politics I'm to the left Tory voter. I came from e socialist background and so voted Labour for many years, but realised like many others that New Labour were really a weaker form of Conservative. I now live in a strong Lib-Dem seat, so no matter what I vote they win.

 

[Crashing Doors]

Well, the use of "retard" and "buy into this shit". Glenn Beck is on the crazy side of normal, but attacking people based on their personal opinions is uncalled for. (No, I don't watch Beck, I'm not trying to defend him). He fear mongers with the best of them, but do you honestly think he's the only one to do so? Global warming fear mongering is practiced by, well, just about everyone; Obama talking about how we're doomed if we don't act right this second, passing through some ridiculous "stimulus" bill... Maybe it's fear mongering with a side of compassion, but it's still fear mongering. I wouldn't even have a problem with it if he was more up front with us either, but I never completely trusted him. Nothing against him, but the way people idolize him worries me a bit.

And I thought it was hypocritical because all of this talk about US Healthcare and politics is supposed to be based on everyone having their own say, free thought and all that; Beck has his say, and you call him a lunatic and only lunatics will listen to him. Don't like him, that's fine, I don't care for him either, but trashing someone has absolutely nothing to do with the debate. I mean, I even agree with how you challenged him, debating what he said... I just got annoyed by the bashing.

I don't know what socialized health care will look like in the US, and I'm not saying I'd rather die than have it... but I'd rather trudge through being sick than "buy into" Obama's plan if I don't think it's the right plan for the country. Then again I hate going to the doctor anyway.

 

[Blondie Bear]

I notice there's a very black-and-white view of this whole issue. People seem to think there's only two choices: leave it the way it is or go completely whole-hog government-run health care. It's a false dichotomy because there ARE other choices. Better choices that either of those.

 

[Kanazaka]

I think that the simplest solution would be for all of the private insurance companies to agree to lower costs for all treatments, procedures and such, but unfortunately, I know that's not going to happen 🙁. Another option would be for generous private and/or government donors to pump more money into Blue Cross/Blue Shield and other low-cost insurance companies, so they can afford to cover more low-income insurance recipients. Short of those options, I think that an overhaul of the healthcare system might be very complicated and expensive. One day, when I have the time, I'll go through the government's proposals and let you know what I think 🙂.

 

[Grey Ghost]

I think that an overhaul of the healthcare system might be very complicated and expensive. One day, when I have the time, I'll go through the government's proposals and let you know what I think 🙂.

You are right, it would be no easy task, it took years to set up our system (and other countries with a similar system) and when another party gets in they may want to alter it or dismantle the system all together. I don't know the US system very well but I would imagine there will be a lot of oppsition from the insurance companies, if maje healthcare cheaper for people then they are going to suffer financially, unless subsidised of course then the tax still pays. How terms of office would take to overhaul your present healthcare system?

 

[Relic]

Without getting to involved in detail with internet strangers, recently I saw first hand what happens with expensive surgeries and people. My family has good insurance while some friends I made had no insurance. It did not stop them from getting what needed done, done. They honestly could not afford coverage, so medicaide/tax payers covered the bill. The reason why things are as expensive as they are in the states is due to the need of tort reform and lawyering, so I do see some reform necessary. But our government in charge of it all? Formula for disaster, just like our soon to be bankrupt social security system, and medicare, medicaide. Government involvement does not save anything. We spend more money on education than any other nation in the world, does it show? We spend more money on wellfair than any nation in the world, is that improvinhelping when more and more people get on it every year? Im sorry, but i dont want government health care. It will make a bigger mess of things than we allready have.

 

[JCC]

I'm to the left Tory voter

How does that work? Even if Labour are only a diluted form of the Conservatives, the fact remains that they are at least a little further to the left than the Conservative Party. I don't understand why a leftist would become mistrustful of Labour and then shift further to the right as a result. Why not choose the Green Party?

But our government in charge of it all? Formula for disaster, just like our soon to be bankrupt social security system, and medicare, medicaide. Government involvement does not save anything. We spend more money on education than any other nation in the world, does it show? We spend more money on wellfair than any nation in the world, is that improvinhelping when more and more people get on it every year? Im sorry, but i dont want government health care. It will make a bigger mess of things than we allready have.

And you trust capitalists with your health more than your government? I'm not saying that the government leaves you in entirely safe hands, but if I had to choose between democratically elected representatives and a healthcare business firm that makes profit from people's misfortune, I know that I would rather be treated in the state hospital.

 

[Grey Ghost]

How does that work? Even if Labour are only a diluted form of the Conservatives, the fact remains that they are at least a little further to the left than the Conservative Party. I don't understand why a leftist would become mistrustful of Labour and then shift further to the right as a result. Why not choose the Green Party?

Good question but Politics are not always logical in prsonal thought, I lived through the Thatcher years etc and hoped that a change to Labour would be good, after all that is how I was bought up thinking that Labour was the best, many people vote as their parents did, in a way politically programmed/socialised at birth. It is not until you have seen and been under several governments that you start to really understand that you have a choice. Since the New Labour victory in 1997, I have had time to change my mind, perhaps hoping that they will have the answers to our countries problem. I also reflected on the past [PERSONAL OPINION ONLY] and felt despite their faults Conservatives were and are better for the country in the long term. However, we need a change every now and then as can bring the party of your choice back to earth.

Green Party, to be honest never thought about them, but I will carefully read their manifesto when the next election arises, which should be no later than May 2010.

 

[JCC]

This is a pretty good place to talk about the Conservatives actually; the quality of the healthcare the NHS offered seriously declined after the Conservatives made moves towards privatisation of the NHS. Of course, privatisation has continued under New Labour but the main point is that opening our healthcare system up to capitalism was a bad decision.

 

[Relic]

Im not in agreement at all that capitalism makes for poor standards of care, im also not buying into the most unfortunate not having access to care. I do think insurance companies need addressed, pre existing conditions clauses are sillyand the ability to buy a coverage plan piece by piece could drastically reduce cost, rather than state mandated packages as is the rule now. However government has no compition and little regulation. To be very honest the governmwnt run hospitals suck here in the states, VA hospitals are pathetic, ive saw them first hand. So yes, id rather put my faith in a system that depends on making a product well recieved by reputation, where there is compition for the best product, and it is intended to reach as many people as it can to gain more funds, before id ever want to be part of a government system where politician decide my healthcare options, i have no choice in the matter, and where someones demise is actually good for their bottom line, when they are old and or debilitated. Rom Emanuels brother who will advise the ultimate bills drafting, has allready said those that will get the best treatment are those 15 to middle age, aka those working and paying taxes. His name is Ezicial Emanuel, google him and check out his qoutes. I wont have him deciding how efficent my healthcare is when Im advanced in age. There is much that can be done to tweak the system, but a one payer system is a mistake in my book.

 

[Grey Ghost]

JCC: I would agree that the NHS should not be privatised when it was bought in 1948 it was a god send to the poor and less well off. All Labour has done is instead of putting things back they have continued to dismantle the NHS. The problem is that the damage can not be put right under either party and the Lib-Dems and minor parties do not have enough support. I am pretty fortunate as I live in Scotland and the healthcare is slightly differentand better - example Prescriptions are £4.00 (England I think is close to £7.00?) and within the next two years or so it's intended to make them free once more. In last election my wife voted SNP, maybe my next vote will go that way, again I will have to read their manifesto - are you studying politics or is this just an interest?

 

[JCC]

I'm too young to study politics so my education in that field is entirely unofficial, I just have a lot of time on my hands and that's where I like to spend it. The SNP wouldn't be a bad vote; I've not really got an opinion of Scottish independence either way, as I'm not Scottish I don't feel like it's much of my business to pass comment, but their policies are decent. I don't like their drug policies, but that's a small issue and none of the mainstream parties have a better alternative and their policies on crime and punishment are much better than the rest.

I won't say anything more on that subject though else we'll go off track.

 

[Bluebird]

I've never properly understood why universal healthcare wasn't something that America wanted. I can get having a few worries over it, but to actually think it's a bad idea? I don't get that. Maybe in practice it would take a lot of work, but the idea is a good thing right?

A government health care program is good for those who can't afford insurance, but if you think that it is by any means free, you are sadly mistaken. It's just another weight added to the taxpayers' already back breaking load.

Of course people are going to be taxed more to pay for it, I'm sure they understand that. Hell, it's one of the main reasons people are against it.

But is money more important than people's lives? Oh wait. Silly question... In the Iraq war alone the US government spent almost a trillion dollars of taxpayers money. Wouldn't that have been better spent not killing people but saving people? Just an idea!

To me, having a system of corporations actively stopping people recieving healthcare just so they can make a profit seems insane.

 

[white avenger]

Here's a little more grist for the mill...

White House appears ready to drop 'public option' - Yahoo! News

 

[Grey Ghost]

JCC: What I meant was, do you intend to study politics later or is just an interest? We live here in Scotland but originaly from England, been here 19 years and made this part of the UK our home. The politics can get really heated up here. But on the on the SNP do a great job on the health side, they have made a priority over the past few years along with education, for example university tutuition is free (provided you have been resident for at least three years). So looking on the face of it it may well be SNP next year. As for the Tories, as you may have learnt they were wiped out for a time, now we have PR so now they have a few seats, Labour lost ground, SNP over all, and enough to control Holyrood and the Lib-Dems have some sway. I can understand if Nottingham does not want Tories, did the they not shut down a lot of the mines?

For our American friends, breifly how does healthcare work in the States, we only ever get to see it through programmes and it appears to be one big insurance system?

 

[slayerpower]

The Republicans insist that with universal healthcare, if you needed to get a medical procedure done, you'd have to go in front of a "death panel" of government officials and beg them to pay for your procedure and that they might not because these govt. officials might think your life isn't worth saving.

 

[Relic]

Actually the above nightmare did happen to a women os Seattle with advanced disease. Their state has a more socialized system. She was terminal, but a drug treatment could extend her life up to 16 months. The state sent her an unsigned letter stating they would not give her treatment, but under their laws assisted suicidr was legal and they could help her out their. Obama himself has said a women in her late 90's who needed a pacemaker should maybe "just take a pain pill" maybe republicans are believing what they do because they observe reality. The reason why so many americans fear it is because they have been given reason to.