Us Healthcare Debate

What is your default political position?

  • I am a centrist

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I've never properly understood why universal healthcare wasn't something that America wanted. I can get having a few worries over it, but to actually think it's a bad idea? I don't get that. Maybe in practice it would take a lot of work, but the idea is a good thing right?

Why people are against it... hmm..

I notice there's a very black-and-white view of this whole issue. People seem to think there's only two choices: leave it the way it is or go completely whole-hog government-run health care. It's a false dichotomy because there ARE other choices. Better choices that either of those.

Because people see their options as being very limited and grim, and since we hate limited and grim, we hate the whole idea. "Better the devil you know..." kind of deal. Honestly I don't think most people really are against it, it seems like that's just the media spin.

The way things are now with my insurance, I'd rather just trudge through my ailments and sinus problems than go to the doctor, to have them run tons of tests that won't be covered. God. I don't know what Obama's plan will look like, but if it'll get me to not hate going to the doctors, not having that fear of amassing huge amounts of medical debt, I'd be in. Plus, if he came up with an anti-surgery-and-needles-and-anesthesia-fear kit, that would rule as well.

I'd like to mention, maybe something a little OT, but I loath insurance companies. I don't really have any follow up to it, or a reason why (at least not in the "I can explain it to you" sense; more of a "I'm venting" thing). Just sayin'.
 
Well, I intended to post in this topic sometime before, but one of my poll options was edited, and it detracted somewhat from one of the things I intended to say, and I guess you could say I got a little disheartened. And now what I intended to say is almost pointless.

So I'm going to keep this short. As short as I can.


Firstly my default position: the scale from left to right is -30 extreme left, +30 Extreme right - My default position is peanut scars.

There are two stereotypes in Washington, in US politics. The republicans are tough, hard as nails, and will do what needs to be done, including being intentionally misleading, (or just telling blatent outright lies) to scare the crap out of white poorly educated gullible fools.

The Democrats are weak, compromising, trying to be bipartisan, but ultimately getting steamrolled by the Republican machine..

The reality is, for the most part, these stereotypes are intentionally fostered by these two parties.

The most important, and essential part of this healthcare reform was the public option. It was going to lower costs. It was never going to happen. The entier point of the public option was to show the lefties that we're doing what is right. We're trying to help you out, but these republicans are so brutal, but we're trying to fight them to help you lttle people out.. All a sham. But that it was 'in' the fake proposed bills, Obama can claim that he tried fix healthcare..

When the reality is,the healthcare "reform" that will pass is just more of the same bull. But they will still claim that they passed healthcare reform, when its a joke.
 
I am a fairly left-oriented social democrat, so of course I think health care for all is the only sensible way to go. I don't really understand how the US works, though, so it would be arrogant of me to start lecturing on how it should be implemented there.

A quick question, though: How much income tax do the average employed American pay?
 
I do not consider myself a political buff whatsoever, but here is my own personal story.

I had a lapse in insurance for a few days back about two years ago, and of course, when it rains it pours, and during those few days, my appendix ruptured. I had no control over this situation and I went to Urgent Care to have them tell me I needed to go to hospital and immediately get prepped for surgery. 48 hours later and I am over $15,000 in debt. I applied for programs but because I am not a minority, nor am I a single mother or a minor under the care of a single parent, I got absolutely no help. So here I am, I work hard for my money and because I had a physical ailment out of my control, something that if I did not get treatment for I would have DIED. This wasn't my choice.

I just feel that I pay my taxes every years, and I believe myself to be an upstanding citizen in this country that these this should have been taken care of. I pay into Social Security, I fork over tax dollars that are used for wars, for programs that are of no benefit to me, and I guess that is all fine and dandy but I feel like when I truly needed help, when my health was on the line, that my country let me down.

I feel like our country is behind the times. This isn't an issue of people not receiving proper care because healthcare in the United States is shady as it is. This is about money, this is about insurance companies losing money. While I don't want the government to have COMPLETE control over healthcare, I would like the piece of mind that if I have a medical problem, a healthcare problem that I need to be treated, that we should ALL be taken care of.
 
Bluebird
Bluebird
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Why people are against it... hmm..



Because people see their options as being very limited and grim, and since we hate limited and grim, we hate the whole idea. "Better the devil you know..." kind of deal. Honestly I don't think most people really are against it, it seems like that's just the media spin.

The way things are now with my insurance, I'd rather just trudge through my ailments and sinus problems than go to the doctor, to have them run tons of tests that won't be covered. God. I don't know what Obama's plan will look like, but if it'll get me to not hate going to the doctors, not having that fear of amassing huge amounts of medical debt, I'd be in. Plus, if he came up with an anti-surgery-and-needles-and-anesthesia-fear kit, that would rule as well.

I'd like to mention, maybe something a little OT, but I loath insurance companies. I don't really have any follow up to it, or a reason why (at least not in the "I can explain it to you" sense; more of a "I'm venting" thing). Just sayin'.

I wasn't talking about the practical reasons why people didn't like it. I mean the actual idea in and of itself. It's just that I see a lot of Americans who are against just the idea, that it's a form of socialism seeping into their society (and we all know that's the evilest of evils! 😉).

I'm pretty sure our government can be just as incompetent when they want to be, but I've never had a single problem with the NHS. And considering my dad doesn't work, he'd almost certainly be dead by now if it wasn't for the treatment he was allowed to receive for free. I feel lucky to have been born in Scotland. Sure we pay a bit more taxes for free university education and free healthcare, but in the end that is always a good thing. Giving people the opportunity to study, get a good job, and not be ill 😉 does wonders for your economy in the long run.
 
C
Crashing Doors
Ah, I see. The idea is something I like, as well as free university education. Evil? Pfft.
Why people are against it... hmm..



Because people see their options as being very limited and grim, and since we hate limited and grim, we hate the whole idea. "Better the devil you know..." kind of deal. Honestly I don't think most people really are against it, it seems like that's just the media spin.

The way things are now with my insurance, I'd rather just trudge through my ailments and sinus problems than go to the doctor, to have them run tons of tests that won't be covered. God. I don't know what Obama's plan will look like, but if it'll get me to not hate going to the doctors, not having that fear of amassing huge amounts of medical debt, I'd be in. Plus, if he came up with an anti-surgery-and-needles-and-anesthesia-fear kit, that would rule as well.

I'd like to mention, maybe something a little OT, but I loath insurance companies. I don't really have any follow up to it, or a reason why (at least not in the "I can explain it to you" sense; more of a "I'm venting" thing). Just sayin'.

I don't know where, well I do know, its the right wing propaganda machine that spins like a whirly thing, funded by the health insurance industry that are not interested in losing the profits they are conning from the american people. The most important point of the healthcare plans, the ones that were proposed, discussed in the senate, and the house, included the public option. Which is basically an alternative insurance, competition for the health insurance companies that rip you yanks off left, right and centre. Private insurance premiums have gone up 119% in the last ten years. Without any real reform, proper change, what stops it from increasing the same in the next ten years?

The public option is an alternative, it doesn't replace private insurance, and its the only thing that will reduce the cost of private insurance, as there will be competition.

But as I said before the public option is dead, maybe I'm just a cynic, but I don't even know if it was ever alive.

We'll see, to me it is another win for the power, those with the money to affect things, and a defeat for the majority of Americans, some of whom don't even understand what they are fighting/standing for.

It is pathetic.
 
I read this on another forum & thought it was pretty good - I'll share with all of you & then make my comments.

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock, powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watch this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US Congress, and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door, I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

After work, I drive my NHTSA bar back home on DOT roads, to a house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and Fire Marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log on to the internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration and post of FreeRepublic.com and Fox News forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.


My comments:
Personally, I don't think that "gov't run" is any worse or better than "privately run"... after all, they're ALL done by human beings... that is human beings who are busy being human... making mistakes, doing things that are "wrong" to others because it is "helpful" to themselves... illegal things... stupid things... things that used to work but for whatever reason don't work anymore, etc.

It's true that gov't facilities are bogged down in some ridiculous paperwork and some things they do are seemingly a complete waste of time..... but I have experienced THE SAME in private institutions as well (maybe not to such a large extent, but still).

I'm still on the fence about whether or not the Health Reform will be a really good thing, but that's mainly because the kinks are nowhere near being ironed out yet. At any rate, I do have hope that improvement is on the way. Because what we have now is clearly NOT the answer.

On another note, there are some believers who think that if people would stop using insurance to pay for the most basic things, the health care industry would be forced to downsize & actually compete for patients. For instance, a couple decide to have a baby. This is something planned. But paying for the doc visits & all the other pregnancy care is just too much to pocket (or rather, UNpocket). So they use their insurance to offset all doctor, hospital & check up bills. Imagine using insurance for ONLY catastrophic needs! - such as car accidents, very expensive cancer treatments, etc. instead of having a co-pay of $25 per doctor visit & outrageous premiums. If there was an insurance that was available to EVERYONE based on premiums costing what could be afforded by income...an insurance that was ONLY used for catastrophic needs, then the premiums would go DOWN and people would get MORE through their paycheck & would shop MORE WISELY for a doctor and avoid all the b'cratic red tape (which, coincidentally, costs MORE) therefore doctors would be inclined to be competitive with charging patients & patients themselves could be IN CHARGE of their health care decisions. This would give the hospitals competitiveness in that little "health shops" would start popping up... like banks or CVS stores on every corner... people who had "the sniffles" would no longer pay a doctor $75 for a 10 minute visit, instead they would go to a "health shop" & get seen within 15 minutes & pay only, say, $35/month for any kind of flu-bug or hurting back or whatnot. Then at the end of each calendar year, whatever wasn't used by this patient-run system would be GIVEN BACK to the patients (try doing THAT with any kind of modern-day insurance plan!) This would also force patients to become more interested in eating right, exercising, taking better care of their own health.

Yeah - there's kinks to be worked out in any system, including the one I just laid out above - but the bottom line is that Obama's plan will help those who are too poor to help themselves (whether by choice or by circumstances makes no matter) and anyone with an ounce of humanity would WANT to help their fellow citizens... but still, it will be the taxpayer paying for it all... once again... and just how much more can the average tax payer give?
 
Well, the use of "retard" and "buy into this shit". Glenn Beck is on the crazy side of normal, but attacking people based on their personal opinions is uncalled for.

Then sorry, I wasn't clear (to be fair, it was a rep comment, not a post, I don't usually explain much of anything in a rep). I can make whatever claims I wan't about anything I see, this is politics in the same way that anyone can have their own say and free thought is 'politics'. Politics certainly isn't about agreeing with everyone. As far as my comments, they were entirely about the twisted filth coming from Beck's mouth. Nothing more. That some retard would buy into Becks hate of all of Europe in that single clip, I can think of no more apt a word.

Global warming fear mongering is practiced by, well, just about everyone; Obama talking about how we're doomed if we don't act right this second, passing through some ridiculous "stimulus" bill... Maybe it's fear mongering with a side of compassion, but it's still fear mongering.

Love your first point, agreed. 🙂 On your second, no, its not needed immediately, the other 50million can wait


I notice there's a very black-and-white view of this whole issue. People seem to think there's only two choices: leave it the way it is or go completely whole-hog government-run health care. It's a false dichotomy because there ARE other choices. Better choices that either of those.

Funny, I don't really see anyone arguing for Obamas plan, everyone's agreeing with the proposal for reform. The trouble is, the widely represented Republican argument is LACK of change...it has been for the last THIRTY years! Its the reason that essentially NOTHING has changed in US medical care (as far as funding and privatisation).

One final point, I see a lot of talk of how great the US medical system is, especially in various republican advertisments I have seen, and that changing the way it is funded, or the steps toward socialisation would destroy it. Last time I checked, it was ranked 37th in the world. ..Ohh, and Obamas plan is about the smallest step toward socialisation that one could possibly make.

...Where are these better plans anyway?

---------- Post added at 09:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:37 PM ----------

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HURZfgYptfA"]YouTube - - Brits furious over GOP healthcare claims[/ame]
 


You know that a healthcare bill will be passed, WA, right?

Am I correct in assuming that those that are not in favour of this 'reform', would prefer a bill without the public option?

---------- Post added at 09:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 PM ----------

So I'm going to keep this short. As short as I can.


Firstly my default position: the scale from left to right is -30 extreme left, +30 Extreme right - My default position is peanut scars.

I forgot to explain this. I form my opinions from policy, my opinions aren't blinded/biased by politics.
 
As a person who works in the health care field, I can assure you SOMETHING needs to be done. There are a lot of people out there who are without insurance coming from all walks of life. Do I believe in UHC for everyone? I don't know. I'm a single parent, who works full time, and has private insurance, can I afford and should I have to pay additional taxes to provide insurance for others? Because honestly, where do you think they are going to get the money to pay for it all? Taxpayers. Where it needs to START is with insurance companies and making insurance available and affordable to everyone. Also, the suppliers. It is ASTRONOMICAL what they charge, from bandages to oxygen tubing. Again to put $$$ in the pockets of the CEOs. I just think trying to rush into a UHC plan is a terrible mistake. This idea needs to be thought out. This goes way beyond Obama's term.
 
As a person who works in the health care field, I can assure you SOMETHING needs to be done. There are a lot of people out there who are without insurance coming from all walks of life. Do I believe in UHC for everyone? I don't know. I'm a single parent, who works full time, and has private insurance, can I afford and should I have to pay additional taxes to provide insurance for others? Because honestly, where do you think they are going to get the money to pay for it all? Taxpayers. Where it needs to START is with insurance companies and making insurance available and affordable to everyone. Also, the suppliers. It is ASTRONOMICAL what they charge, from bandages to oxygen tubing. Again to put $$$ in the pockets of the CEOs. I just think trying to rush into a UHC plan is a terrible mistake. This idea needs to be thought out. This goes way beyond Obama's term.
I do agree that the financial issues are huge, it concerns a compelte rethinking of the way we do healthcare which is why, well, for a single president to push anything through, it meets so much resistance. The end result though is a more efficient system I think... UK spends half of the GDP of the US.
 
As a person who works in the health care field, I can assure you SOMETHING needs to be done. There are a lot of people out there who are without insurance coming from all walks of life. Do I believe in UHC for everyone? I don't know. I'm a single parent, who works full time, and has private insurance, can I afford and should I have to pay additional taxes to provide insurance for others? Because honestly, where do you think they are going to get the money to pay for it all? Taxpayers. Where it needs to START is with insurance companies and making insurance available and affordable to everyone. Also, the suppliers. It is ASTRONOMICAL what they charge, from bandages to oxygen tubing. Again to put $$$ in the pockets of the CEOs. I just think trying to rush into a UHC plan is a terrible mistake. This idea needs to be thought out. This goes way beyond Obama's term.

While I understand that everything is pretty expensive, I really ask myself what exactly the problem is. I know in Germany everyone has to have insurance (private is sort of for the richer people, but everyone else gets at least the regular insurance), and yet it hasn't destroyed anyone here financially. If we can make it work, I really see no reason why the US, who allegedly is supposed to be one of the most advanced countries in the world, can't.
 
I also am involved with the healthcare industry, i'm on a gov't regulatory board that regulates the private insurance companies in the state i'm in. (every state has an insurance regulatory dept) and i can tell you that what is going on right now? the way things are NOW? is just not working. unless of course you're an insurance company exec sitting back and watching the dollars roll in.

its ridiculous that people are buying into these myths ("death panels" etc) and not bothering to use the information resources out there teo seperate fact from fiction.

we live in an age where information is abundant...all a person has to do is READ.

Healthcare reform bill


seven falsehoods about healthcare

fact check

Instead of being lead by the nose by these lunatic pundits like Bill O'rielly, Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh, people need to think for themselves.

We DEFINATELY need some kind of health care reform. Change is never easy and often uncertain...but when you know better, you should DO better. What's going on right now is just NOT working.

Number of uninsured

We know the current status health care industry ISNT WORKING (and im saying that as someone who has spoken to many consumers who call me in TEARS when they are being mistreated by healthcare insurance administrators...the stories i could tel....<<sigh>>) so we need to do something.
 
Bluebird
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