US Presidential Elections 2008

[Superstar]

That is what bothers me - that people more often than not vote for a smooth talker instead of who they think will actually do the best job.

And this is ultimately another litmus test.

McCain may be clumsy in speech, but the snake-oil salesman appearance is missing precisely because of the speech pattern.
Obama learned more than what people think in church. His speeches are the inverse of hellfire and damnation sermons.
They still apparently give people thrills up their legs, cause fervent religious-like fainting spells and praises that the messiah has come.

I'm on record elsewhere concerning several predictions of an Obama presidency.
None of which are encouraging.

An example regarding the super-majority Congress/President Democratic party (as stated by Obama) having waited decades for real change:
posted 10-24-2008 06:00 PM by Nimruzir

quote: Pi: Supreme Court appointees? I don't want to see 4 Bill of Rights Amendments become toilet paper.
quote: LyraLuthien Tinuviel: WTF are you talking about?

If I had to guess:
1. 1st Amendment: specifically Freedom of the Press
2. 12th Amendment: replacement of Electoral votes with Popular vote
3. 14th Amendment: re-definition of Immigration and Naturalization
4. 16th Amendment: re-definition of taxation

Strong possibles are also:
5. 10th Amendment: re-definition of Federal power
6. 26th Amendment: change of voting age to 16 (or less)

There are others such as removing restrictions on Congressional pay, right to possess firearms and length of Presidential term (especially in light of NY recently) as some of the more noteworthy lesser possibilities.

Now this example doesn't even address the Democratic push in Congress to give driver's licenses to illegal aliens and anyone else who cannot produce documentation of identity. This coupled with ACORN's already slowly becoming known activities and existing state laws of not requiring an actual fixed address (park benches are listed as legal residences) is something the 2010 House elections are going to have a rude awakening to.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Obama learned more than what people think in church. His speeches are the inverse of hellfire and damnation sermons.
They still apparently give people thrills up their legs, cause fervent religious-like fainting spells and praises that the messiah has come.

Dont even get me started on that topic; the messiah has come indeed!

 

[Queen Mum]

Obama is a terrible choice.

I do find it curious as to why Europeans prefer him as a choice.
It seems to be more of an age issue for voters, and possibly those who have no understanding of basic economics.
I'm almost convinced he exemplifies and espouses European standards and why he has popularity there.
That, or Europeans really just don't like the United States and want to see it fall, badly.
For those in America the level of Chicago politics Obama exhibits is striking and disturbing; not surprising though considering his home base.
Is this something Europeans also espouse?

That said, McCain isn't much better but he has the advantage of an economic plan that is proven.

Now this I must say is rather missing the point.
Obama is generally speaking more popular among Europeans, especially in Germany he seems to be celebrated big time. I believe he is compared to Kennedy and in some way also to a Messiah. However, I do think, that this is a bad thing, as it creates a big bubble, which makes Obama overrated. Many people are putting loads and loads of hopes and expectations into him that he is bound to disaapoint them at some stage. This could turn out to be rather dangerous.

Nevertheless I believe that Obama has turned out to be the better candidate. I feel that McCain lacks inspiration, cunningness and stuff like that. Without doubt, he would be a fine President, but he is a few years late. Preferably he should have one the Republican ticket in 2000. We might have saved us some trouble then.

Any way. Whoever is elected will have a hell of a job to do and I prefer Obama over McCain to do this job, especially if Sarah "Dalek" Palin is waiting in the corridor to take over the job. She would be a dreadful President. Even worse than President Dodo.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I like your banner by the bloody way

Thanks.. I was just thinking that too. The wonderfully talented Nixy made it for me.. it came as a surprise when I saw it in my inbox!

 

[itsxpaperdoll]

I really don't like the direction the election campaigns are heading. It's not about substance anymore but about smooth talking on the one hand and making the other party look ridiclous on the other. I think Sarah Palin is the biggest example of this, the impression I get is that she doesn't do anything else in her rallies (I hope I don't upset any Palin fans here, it's just my impression). I wouldn't trust any of them with my country really, at least there's the whole checks and balances thing. So I guess both will manage. But since I'm a socialist deep down, and the spreading the wealth around actually sounds all right to me, I would go for Obama, even though I do think he's got less (maybe too little) experience. I guess he's just the lesser of two evils. Again, I haven't really been paying attention to their programs (my biggest source being the Daily Show, I might even be a bit biased 😛) but to me it seems that McCain mostly represents what I'd call the less attractive sides of the usa and Obama the more positive sides (respectively every man for himself mentality, religious (dare I say) fanaticism, conservatism versus dynamism, love for eachother and liberalism) That, and I just generally don't trust people who call themselves creationist and anti abortus (especially in the case of young girls or rape victims and things like that). But please don't ask me to elaborate, cos I've only seen bits and pieces of speeches on the news, and that's all I know. And I've seen Obama telling people on some fund raiser that he's actually from Krypton, which was quite funny. ^^

 

[palabravampiress]

I find it difficult to decide. That's no surprise, as I am registered as an Independent because neither major party platform *quite* suits me. I tend to favor individual freedoms and conservative spending. With the bailout and the current financial situation, I really don't think conservative spending is an option for the near future. The candidates can promise tax breaks until they are each blue in the face, but I honestly believe that Americans will end up paying more in taxes no matter who wins the presidency. I don't think either candidate is truly in favor of conservative spending. Obama wants to spend money on health care and social programs. McCain wants to spend money on the war. They're both going into office with a massive national debt hanging over their heads, the bailout coming into effect, and a war going on. In terms of individual freedoms, then, my vote should go to Obama. Unfortunately, it's not that cut and dried. When you vote for a candidate, you don't just vote for his ideas, you also vote for his abilities. McCain has proven himself. Obama is still lacking in the experience department. Whether I agree with his platform or not, I think McCain would be a more competent -- especially as Commander-in-Chief and n terms of foreign policy. Of course, his VP pick makes me nervous and sort of throws the experience idea out the window, again weakening his position in my eyes. All things considered, I think I should vote for Obama, but I do so with reservations.

With regard to Obama and race, let me just say that I think race plays less of a role than many people seem to believe. Certainly, there are racists of all ethnicities out there who will cast their votes according to their racist ideas. Similarly, there are religious folks of all creeds who will vote according to their religious ideas. There are those who are prejudiced for or against certain age brackets who will vote according to the candidates' respective ages. There are single-issue voters who would vote for a little green man from Mars if he supported their views on their respective single issues. There are now and have always been various types of "ists" among voters. Some will vote against Obama due to his race, but others will vote against McCain for similarly superficial reasons. In the end, though, I think most voters will vote for the man who promises them the change that they most desire, especially with regard to hot-button issues like the economy and the war. People are ultimately selfish. They act according to their own self-interest. It would take some *very* strong feelings of prejudice to convince most people to vote contrary to their own best interests.

 

[Airam]

I've already voted, wednesday, for Obama. And i would have voted for him over McCain (and *shudder* Palin) whether he was black, white, pink, polka-dotted or effing striped!

 

[Cordelia Chase*]

Dare I say what I know alot of people have been thinking but refuse to say.

Is it because he is black?

Obama is not the best of the current group to be President, heck he wasn't the best in his own Party Nominations, BUT he is going for the election.

IF anyone else was running with the Manifesto as Obama BUT was white, would we not be ridiculing his absolute lack of understanding and short comings required to be an American President.

If everything else was the same except he was white, would it be a Hillary vs McCain run to the White House?

Is this not just some bastardised version of Affirmative Action?

I would like to say 'No', Obama's skin colour played no part in it, he is someone the People can get behind, but instead, I think it is probably Positive Discrimination (I have some gay Tory friends, they deal with this often) and no matter what word you place before discrimination, it still doesn't absolve the fact discrimination is going on.

i agree
ANd Obama is actually mixed. Black and white...

 

[Superstar]

Obama is generally speaking more popular among Europeans, especially in Germany he seems to be celebrated big time.

Yes, Germany does seem to be a huge supporter. Perhaps Obama should run for office there instead.
As to why they zealously support a candidate in a foreign nation's election is a bit fuzzy in logic.
I'll refrain from obvious WWII comparisons, but only because they are too similar.

Speaking of genocide, another prediction I am on record for:
posted 10-28-2008 10:09 PM by Nimruzir

quote:Is a single President (of either persuasion) going to "ruin everything" during a term or two?

You are in for a surprise. It is not even difficult to foresee; and it won't be pretty for American economics.
Unrelated directly to American economics but as a play on massive changes possible in a single term:

I predict that if Obama is President that talks with Iran will commence and an agreement to cut off American support for Israel will occur in exchange for favorable trade agreements with Iran, an Iranian voluntary ban on nuclear weapons development and to placate the general American public the Iranians delivering the head of Bin Laden on a silver platter that has been 7 years in the waiting. We will also pull out of Iraq and the Afghan/Paki war as well.
Huge monetary savings in war expenditures and closure on the catalyst for the war there. If all this just so happens to play into Obama's known philosophical leanings so much the better for him. To me, this isn't a "ruin everything" per se since as I said before I ain't Jewish. Now a lot of Democrats are going to be upset about this turn of events. It is enough to turn politics in the region for the last 60 years on its ear.

Note: This also included talk about Biden's mentioning of a "generated" crisis, how unpopular it would be with Democrats, how it would appear to be wrong and that Democrats should stand with the party regardless. Not the damage control spin of "he really meant either candidate" which is hard to swallow since I don't recall McCain being a Democrat.

 

[Allycat]

If I think about it rationally Obama's views are closest to mine. However, I just don't trust him. Beneath that surface layer of charisma, there's something I fundamentally distrust. I can't quite put my finger on what it is. Maybe it's because he's black; as far as I know I'm not a racist, but it's one of those subconscious things. I hope it isn't.

As far as Mc Cain goes, he looks a tiny smidgeon wiser than Obama. I know that's not a lot to go on, but in a race between two evils, it is enough.

 

[Aleris]

Yes, Germany does seem to be a huge supporter. Perhaps Obama should run for office there instead.
As to why they zealously support a candidate in a foreign nation's election is a bit fuzzy in logic.
I'll refrain from obvious WWII comparisons, but only because they are too similar.

Speaking of genocide, another prediction I am on record for:
posted 10-28-2008 10:09 PM by Nimruzir

I am SERIOUSLY shocked and disgusted at this comment.

I can't even articulate anything other then that I'm THAT angry about this. I think perhaps I wont be visiting this thread again until the election is over if comments like this are going to become common place in here ....

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I am SERIOUSLY shocked and disgusted at this comment.

I can't even articulate anything other then that I'm THAT angry about this. I think perhaps I wont be visiting this thread again until the election is over if comments like this are going to become common place in here ....

What is wrong with it?

I would come to a conclusion based on WW2 too. I don't know if my reasoning would be the same similar, but I think it might be a race thing.

I have some German elderly relatives (opposed Naziism) but now within them there is a lot of undirected guilt and backing someone like Obama would be, to them, there way of saying 'WW2 wasn't our fault, though we didn't try as hard as we could/should to stop it - in fact we turned a blind eye and we're sorry. By supporting Obama, we're showing that we can change and that we're not who we used to be'.

I would also argue that this is part of a social conscience that is maybe currently being cleansed, absolved if you will, of their forefathers and predecessors.

I mean of all the countries that COULD/SHOULD be a ferverent a supporter of Obama, it is interesting that I have only seen Germany be as extreme as they have been.

 

[Queen Mum]

Mh,

I don't think so. Like in my local student network, if the Germans there would be allowed to vote would give Obama a 90% landslide victory, and as far as I can tell most people in my student network are of student age and really can't have a conscious memory of WW2 events. I think that this is rather far fetched.

I think he is very popular in Germany for reasons as him being in a way similar to Kennedy and Kennedy was very popular among Germans too. Further, I can imagine that as his party is just the complete opposit to President Dodo's in the eye of an outsider, that Obama gets a plus for that too. However, if Obama should be elected into office, one should conduct some research on who where is voters and why they voted for him and also see why foreigners would have voted for him and stuff like that. I could imagine some interesting Bachelor paper being written about that.


By the way, I'd like to see more of candidates like Frank Moore. Very unfortunate that Harold Stassen isn't going up for election this year 😉

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I don't think so. Like in my local student network, if the Germans there would be allowed to vote would give Obama a 90% landslide victory, and as far as I can tell most people in my student network are of student age and really can't have a conscious memory of WW2 events. I think that this is rather far fetched.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about.

The social concious is something that is born and lives on. I know plenty of Germans who are ashamed of their history because of what happened. They don't have to have been born in that time to feel really bad about what happened because they are direct descendants of the atrocities.

It is like white folks in the world feeling ashamed of slavery. People are still dealing with that through Reparations as repayment for the shameful act.

WW1 and WW2 will be in the social conscience of Germany and co for quite a few generations to come - especially since countries like the UK continually make mention of it.
[br][/br]
Edit:
[br][/br]

I think he is very popular in Germany for reasons as him being in a way similar to Kennedy and Kennedy was very popular among Germans too. Further, I can imagine that as his party is just the complete opposit to President Dodo's in the eye of an outsider, that Obama gets a plus for that too. However, if Obama should be elected into office, one should conduct some research on who where is voters and why they voted for him and also see why foreigners would have voted for him and stuff like that. I could imagine some interesting Bachelor paper being written about that.

The point is, Germany is the only country that has shown the fervour they have for Obama. I am pretty sure there are MANY countries that will be glad to see the back end of Bush, equal to or more so than Germany BUT they have gotten behind Obama in a really vocal way.

Ohh and with all that is going on in the world, that 'paper' doesn't sound too appealing really considering its quite obvious who are voting for him.

 

[Superstar]

I would come to a conclusion based on WW2 too. I don't know if my reasoning would be the same similar, but I think it might be a race thing.

Well thanks but I wasn't thinking race per se except in direct segue to the ramifications to the Iran/Israel conflict I was predicting.
The comparison itself was more along the lines of the power of voice, the unreasoning support it inspires and the ability to enable/disable actions and thought in a populace which might not be done otherwise. Germany is the most universally understood example of this mania. Neglecting to mention the debatable brainwashing of American youth would also be remiss in comparison. America's religion of Obama is inexplicably following this same model almost to the letter.

How much Germany itself and possibly why it is such a fervent supporter is another question entirely.
I think the Kennedy/Obama comparison stated by Biden was more PR than actual virtues.

If someone is offended, then perhaps there is something in your knee-jerk reaction that needs to be addressed.

 

[Blondie Bear]

I think my political ideas can best be classified as Constitutionalist-Libertarian. Therefore, I:

Voted for Ron Paul in the primaries.

Threw things when he lost so badly.

Got angry when McCain became the nominee. I mean, MCCAIN?! Wasn't he running as a DEMOCRAT not too long ago?

Nearly started throwing things AGAIN when McCain was considering Democrat VPs.

Am very annoyed that our choices are a radical Democrat or a moderate Democrat-disguised-as-a-Republican.

BUT I'm voting for McCain because, again, he's the lesser of 2 evils and no third party has a snowball's chance in Hell as long as we have the Electoral College voting FOR us.

/rant

 

[Blondie Bear]

Superstar agrees: Blondie said: Don't forget the 2nd Amendment; he's said that he wants to ban private ownership of handguns. (Already covered in that post near the bottom Blondie - I'm well aware of what Amendments are in great danger)

I think that the 2nd Amendment is in more danger than you acknowledged in your post. Just sayin'.

And you don't have to get sarcastic with me--I'm on your side.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

This is really old and not sure if anyone has seen it. But it just popped in me head this morn

The Empire Strikeds Barack

 

[ckg927]

Superstar: In re that prediction you made earlier on in the thread,that MIGHT have some credence...

if Obama hasn't gone on the record many times as saying that he is a strong backer of Israel's right to exist. He even said it at a speech in front of AIPAC.

 

[Blondie Bear]

^ We all know how much what politicians SAY matters, though. How many times have they said one thing, then voted another way? About eight billion! (Not just Obama, either, but all of them.)