Vampires: Evolution Or Degeration?

[white avenger]

We've seen that the really ancient vampires like the Master and Kokistos look inhuman and don't seem to have the human/game face characteristic, or, if they do, they never seem to revert back to human form. So, here is the question:

Are the ancient vampires more monstrous in appearance because they were directly turned by the actual vampire demons (remember, Anya said that all of the modern demons and vampires are only the descendants of demon/human combination), or do all vampires start out appearing as normal humans and degenerate into the more bestial forms over thousands of years of existence?

Personally, I prefer the first option, as it tends to comply with normal breeding characteristics. A dog that is half Shepard and half Retriever will share characteristics of both breeds, but consistently breed each resulting generation with Retrievers, and eventually the offspring will become almost indistinguishable, except for occasional throwbacks, from purebred Retrievers. The same principal should apply to vampires.

 

[Kana]

I think it's just a case of changing as they get older. Darla says that the Master has 'grown passed the curse of human features'. It would appear that at first they change so that they can no longer use their human face and then then perhaps depending on their lineage they change into more demonic/animalistic guises. Kakistos had goat look about him and the Master had more a batlike guise.

It's difficult to tell with vampires because their species is very unique from any animals and even most demons. Their procreation is asexual, so how their lineage is passed on may differ from 'normal' species. For example there few if any examples of any similar characteristics being passed on between progeny, but then we haven't seen that many ancient vampires.

 

[BuffangelLovE]

Well your comparison with the dogs pretty much explains it all. A vampire like the Master doesn't evolve or degenerate, he's the way he was when he was turned (demonic face). He's part of the earlier generations of vampires and represents their former looks and state. He "chooses" not to look human anymore, and his special look automatically makes his appearence more monstrous and frightening. But I believe he could revert to his human face if he wanted.
Anyways, over the thousands of years those older vamps like the Master made new ones, who weren't the same as their sire's because of the circumstances then (such as maybe the state of the human evolution?), and so on. So vampires do evolve from generation to generation. But individual vampires do not evolve further within their existence throughout (hundreds or thousands - doesn't matter) years.

 

[The Unspoken]

or do all vampires start out appearing as normal humans and degenerate into the more bestial forms over thousands of years of existence?

But is it degeneration? Vampires are looked down upon by other demons because they're a half-breed. Wouldn't developing more beastly features constitute evolution rather than degeneration? 🙄

 

[white avenger]

But is it degeneration? Vampires are looked down upon by other demons because they're a half-breed. Wouldn't developing more beastly features constitute evolution rather than degeneration? 🙄

By "degeneration," I was referring to the degeneration of the vampire's human features, making it more difficult for them to interact with humans, a necessity for their hunting and feeding. If you recall, neither the Master nor Kokistos was ever shown as doing any actual hunting. They had minions to do it for them.

 

[FetalPig]

I think of the human features as an asset for hunting, being able to blend with the culture of their prey is a useful ability which they lose over time, as Darla implied. So it seemed like degeneration to me. Like an elephant losing it's tusks or something. The Master has to have minions bring him food ... ie to develop different hunting techniques because of his lack of this ability. Not that he couldn't 'walk on the surface' but he doesn't like to - it doesn't fit his self-image as it were.

it's an interesting question though, and Angels experience on Pylea shows that the demon aspect can manifest differently in differing circumstances although that might take us either way - the demon aspect becoming more prevalent over time or being dominant and fixed at a certain moment (ie when sired).

I have to think some more . Good question.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

Kakistos was one of the oldest vampires, and we're told he has a more demonic appearance (cloven hooves, etc.) because of that. This suggests that the ability to assume human-like form evolved over the millennia, probably as a survival ability to allow vampires to infiltrate and get closer to their prey. There's no evidence that Kakistos was able to take on a human appearance.

But then we have the case of the Master. He also never takes human form, and Darla says that he's "grown past the curse of human features." However, we don't know if that's because he is very old, or because he's very powerful.

Joss's script for "Welcome to the Hellmouth" explicitly says that the Master is 600 years old, and his name is Heinrich Joseph Nest. That would argue that his appearance is a result of power, not age... he looked that way when he first came to Darla in Virginia, and he was younger then than Angel is now.

It's an open question whether stuff that's in Joss's script, but never mentioned on-screen, is completely canonical. I'm thinking that it is, but that what's onscreen takes precedence and Joss can retcon script-only information if he wants to, with no foul. Not sure if that's what he intended to do here.