Spoiler! Variant Cover for #39

Buffy looks like she's in a fight on this cover... and judging by the vision in Anywhere But Here, it may be a fight she loses.

I don't think it can be Xander, Giles, or Dawn she's hitting, since none of them could stand up to her in a fight (even with her normal powers), and Buffy isn't really the type to beat up helpless opponents no matter how angry she is.

I think she's fighting Spike, Angel, or The Master.
 
Skanky Vamp
Skanky Vamp
Judging from the angle and trajectory, I would say they arent standing at all... unless that damn fear demon came back!
Buffy looks like she's in a fight on this cover... and judging by the vision in Anywhere But Here, it may be a fight she loses.

I don't think it can be Xander, Giles, or Dawn she's hitting, since none of them could stand up to her in a fight (even with her normal powers), and Buffy isn't really the type to beat up helpless opponents no matter how angry she is.

I think she's fighting Spike, Angel, or The Master.

About it possibly being Spike...

'And there will be a time of crisis, of worlds hanging in the balance. And in this time shall come the Anointed, the Master's great warrior. And the Slayer will not know him, will not stop him, and he will lead her into Hell.
 
Sorry... gotta say this.. if they bring the little kid back and put him in the comics, I will LOL my bum off.
 
Sorry... gotta say this.. if they bring the little kid back and put him in the comics, I will LOL my bum off.

I think I would have to do that too.

All seems to be focusing back on Prophecy Girl.
 
Skanky Vamp
Skanky Vamp
Seriously.. he cant. I mean honestly. It would.. really, he cant
Sorry... gotta say this.. if they bring the little kid back and put him in the comics, I will LOL my bum off.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree. That would be just ... no.
 
It would be pretty cool, if there's a new Anointed One. One we can take seriously this time. 🙄

I kinda like the idea of it all being cyclical. It would have to be Spike though wouldn't it? I mean he is the one leading her to Sunnyhell.

His motivation for betraying her would have to be pretty damn good though.
Unless he really has lost his soul.
 
I kinda like the idea of it all being cyclical. It would have to be Spike though wouldn't it? I mean he is the one leading her to Sunnyhell.

His motivation for betraying her would have to be pretty damn good though.
Unless he really has lost his soul.

Won't Buffy and Spike be fighting shoulder-to-shoulder in a scene that takes place after the betrayal?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/MoscowWatcher/Misc2/Spuffy_soon.jpg
 
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Won't Buffy and Spike be fighting shoulder-to-shoulder in a scene that takes place after the betrayal?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/MoscowWatcher/Misc2/Spuffy_soon.jpg

Well the betrayal apparently takes place towards the end of 38 or start of 39. If I remember correctly that image of Buffy and Spike is from 38? So technically, Spike could still be in that scene with her earlier in the issue and betray afterwards.

Of course, that is all a big honkin if. But, I suppose we have speculated about everyone else. Might as well throw Spike in the mix too.
 
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The flashforward panel is from #34. It looks like Buffy's clothes - terracota pants and brown jacket - are different from the "betrayal" outfit. Spike wears a shirt instead of a t-shirt he's sporting in #37.

Of course, it could be another continuity error, like Faith's nail polish or Buffy's cross. *shrugs* I wonder if they have a continuity editor at all.

I agree - it's fun to speculate 🙂
 
The flashforward panel is from #34. It looks like Buffy's clothes - terracota pants and brown jacket - are different from the "betrayal" outfit. Spike wears a shirt instead of a t-shirt he's sporting in #37.

Of course, it could be another continuity error, like Faith's nail polish or Buffy's cross. *shrugs* I wonder if they have a continuity editor at all.

I agree - it's fun to speculate 🙂

Where is the cross issue? You've mentioned it before and I am wracking my brain tryong to think of what you mean lol

Well judging by the variant cover for 38 that flashforward is from that issue

buffy38cover1.jpg


The colouring is different but I think that was an intentional thing for issue 34 to signify the change in time.

The blurb for the issue kinda backs it up too.

While Super Buffy is fighting side by side with Spike in Sunnydale, Angel is on the other side of world fighting demons of his own. As Twilight he was given a clear mission in regard to Buffy-help her reach the next plane, together create a new world, and end all suffering. But Buffy doesn't play by the rules, and this "higher plane" and a lifetime of happiness with Angel wasn't gonna cut it-not if she had to sacrifice her family to keep it. And now Angel has to answer for his failings as Twilight-willingly or not.

Back in Sunnydale everyone is fighting for their lives against a horde of demons, and someone close to Buffy joins forces with a villain from the past to strive for a common goal-protect the seed.


So it sounds like issue 38 will focus on Angel off wherever he is facing the music and Sunnydale is the demon horde. I'd wager the betrayal will be one of the very last parts of that issue. So basically, there's room for them to fight and then the dupe.
 
In that picture Spike is pretty close to Buffy and look at the wry smirk on his face. I am starting to see Keanonite's point.
 
Kean
Kean
Now there's a name I haven't heard in eons!
Kean - in in the scene of betrayal in issue 10 Buffy wears a little cross on her neck. In Always Darkest and issue #37 she wears the same clothes, but she doesn't wear a cross.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/MoscowWatcher/Misc/comics_climax.jpg

The colouring is different but I think that was an intentional thing for issue 34 to signify the change in time.

You're most likely right. Funnily, Buffy wears a different top on the cover. Apparently, the girl finds time to change her outfits in the middle of the fight. 🙂
 
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Kean - in in the scene of betrayal in issue 10 Buffy wears a little cross on her neck. In Always Darkest and issue #37 she wears the same clothes, but she doesn't wear a cross.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/MoscowWatcher/Misc/comics_climax.jpg



You're most likely right. Buffy wears a different top on the cover. Apparently, the girl finds time to change her outfits in the middle of the fight. 🙂

Oh I see what you mean now. I'm assuming it is continuity error, but you never know with this verse. 😉

I actually think she is wearing the same top, or well jacket. The colouring makes it hard to tell though.
 
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Hi all -- I'm active elsewhere in the fandom, but this is my first time posting here.

I do think the line from season 1 is interesting, and it does put Spike in play. As a Spike fan, it's the one argument about Spike that makes me nervous. As does the panel from Always Darkest.

That said, I'm not so nervous for a lot of reasons.

1. How does it work dramatically? Spike's been out of the picture for years now. Whether due to indifference or annoyance or a sense of betrayal, Buffy hasn't bothered to call him (when by contrast she reached out to Riley and tried to reach out to Angel for help). Let's say he's lost his soul or for some other random reason decided to be a bad guy. Whatever it is, it's a story that happened elsewhere. So where's the dramatic punch for having a character return in a VERY different place from where he was (Buffy's most loyal ally) late in a story where everyone and their dog seems to be functioning just fine thinking of him as a footnote to their lives. The story of Spike changing would be interesting - but it happened off-stage. The story of the impact of Spike's change can't be that interesting in a story that has shown no interest in him. Sure there'd be hurt -- but not hurt that resonates with the story we've now spent over three years setting up.

2. Don't want to put too much on this because who knows what's up with the seed, but if the Master's game is to protect the seed, then how is Spike setting up to be his warrior and Buffy's betrayer by taking Buffy *to* the seed? But who knows -- all of the exposition on all of this has been garbled.

3. But that does raise the detail that the prophecy wants this to be the Master's warrior. Angel's had more dealings with the Master and more respect for him. Spike came after the Master died, but unceremoniously disposed of the annointed one. He doesn't have much respect for old traditions and what not.

So if the betrayer (in a pejorative sense) is either vampire, I'd say it's more likely to be Angel, who for better or worse has been important to the story all along. Buffy may say she doesn't trust him. But she's shipped him off to save the slayers. He's got her heart. That's enough for some tears and Jeanty getting all upset. Why would Angel 'betray' her? Well, blurb in #38 says he's having to answer to whoever it was that sent him on his mission for having failed. Maybe he comes back with renewed energy to try to get Buffy to go back to paradise with him. Maybe he once again lets dog rather than Buffy set the agenda and comes back to kill Dawn or whatever it is that dog tells him he has to do now and that puts him at odds with Buffy. Or maybe he finds out that Spuffy is not quite as done a deal as it seems at the end of #36 and Angel acts like the 12-year old he just said he still is.

But were it not for the panel in Always Darkest, I'd say the betrayer is far more likely to be a Scoobie type, with Xander/Dawn being the leading candidates. And I don't think that the Always Darkest panel has to mean it's a vampire. Angel and Spike have always been part of Buffy's shadow self. The line in the panel is about not being able to kill what's *inside* you.

So that leads me to what I think is most likely: and that's that the 'betrayer' isn't the bad guy here. Buffy's own darkness is part of the problem. We've been flagging it all season long. It's gotten a lot of foreshadowing -- she wants to give into it. Dawn notably made a couple of references to slayers as demons. Angel can't be the righteous 'betrayer' on this account, because he's complicit in whatever has gone wrong with Buffy. But Spike could be. We've done a lot of compare/contrast on Spike and Angel that sets Spike up for the role to be the vampire self that still has a moral compass. Angel slogs along listening to voices (reminding us of the line about the moron that chaos employs, with moron or 'simple' coming up twice so far in Last Gleaming about Angel); Spike goes out and does some research and figures out what's going on. But there's still far more story-richness to be found by having one of the Scoobies step up to the plate as the righteous 'betrayer':

Way too much in the mix to make any forecasts or speculations. Dawn's keyness has been mentioned enough to matter. Xander's gun got highlighted, and guns have been mentioned enough to matter. Giles' willingness to take down a slayer has been mentioned enough to matter. The season has been far more about human-slayer conflict than vamire-slayer conflict and that gets personalized if one of Buffy's humans turns on her. I find it hard to believe that Joss would step over all of that rich story that's actually part and parcel of season 8 to get to some story about how the ex-boyfriend who's been scarcely mentioned all season long somehow went bad offstage and swooped in at the last minute to mess things up.
 
Moscow Watcher
Moscow Watcher
Agree, the culmination of the story has something to do with Angel. Joss said his wife has figured out the season's outcome as soon as she found out who Twilight is.
Bringing the Master back into this reminds me that, since Darla's death, Angel is the senior living member of their Order. Maybe the Master has found some way to dominate, enthrall, or just convince Angel that taking his side, even to the point of betraying Buffy and her friends, would best serve that "greater good" that Angel is always talking about. That in turn might actually encourage an alliance between Angel and the other big "greater good" proponent, Giles, assuming that what the Master could do with Angel, he could do just as easily, if not more so, with a normal human.

The only problem that I can see with having Angel as the Judas in the story is that, while doing so would have definite shock factor, it would also pretty much preclude the one greatest opportunity for Angel to redeem himself for the crimes and atrocities that he instigated throughout Season 8, namely, sacrificing himself in an act of heroism by defeating the Big Bad, whether it is the Master, the REAL Twilight, or someone else completely different.
 
Hi all -- I'm active elsewhere in the fandom, but this is my first time posting here.

I do think the line from season 1 is interesting, and it does put Spike in play. As a Spike fan, it's the one argument about Spike that makes me nervous. As does the panel from Always Darkest.

That said, I'm not so nervous for a lot of reasons.

1. How does it work dramatically? Spike's been out of the picture for years now. Whether due to indifference or annoyance or a sense of betrayal, Buffy hasn't bothered to call him (when by contrast she reached out to Riley and tried to reach out to Angel for help). Let's say he's lost his soul or for some other random reason decided to be a bad guy. Whatever it is, it's a story that happened elsewhere. So where's the dramatic punch for having a character return in a VERY different place from where he was (Buffy's most loyal ally) late in a story where everyone and their dog seems to be functioning just fine thinking of him as a footnote to their lives. The story of Spike changing would be interesting - but it happened off-stage. The story of the impact of Spike's change can't be that interesting in a story that has shown no interest in him. Sure there'd be hurt -- but not hurt that resonates with the story we've now spent over three years setting up.

2. Don't want to put too much on this because who knows what's up with the seed, but if the Master's game is to protect the seed, then how is Spike setting up to be his warrior and Buffy's betrayer by taking Buffy *to* the seed? But who knows -- all of the exposition on all of this has been garbled.

3. But that does raise the detail that the prophecy wants this to be the Master's warrior. Angel's had more dealings with the Master and more respect for him. Spike came after the Master died, but unceremoniously disposed of the annointed one. He doesn't have much respect for old traditions and what not.

So if the betrayer (in a pejorative sense) is either vampire, I'd say it's more likely to be Angel, who for better or worse has been important to the story all along. Buffy may say she doesn't trust him. But she's shipped him off to save the slayers. He's got her heart. That's enough for some tears and Jeanty getting all upset. Why would Angel 'betray' her? Well, blurb in #38 says he's having to answer to whoever it was that sent him on his mission for having failed. Maybe he comes back with renewed energy to try to get Buffy to go back to paradise with him. Maybe he once again lets dog rather than Buffy set the agenda and comes back to kill Dawn or whatever it is that dog tells him he has to do now and that puts him at odds with Buffy. Or maybe he finds out that Spuffy is not quite as done a deal as it seems at the end of #36 and Angel acts like the 12-year old he just said he still is.

But were it not for the panel in Always Darkest, I'd say the betrayer is far more likely to be a Scoobie type, with Xander/Dawn being the leading candidates. And I don't think that the Always Darkest panel has to mean it's a vampire. Angel and Spike have always been part of Buffy's shadow self. The line in the panel is about not being able to kill what's *inside* you.

So that leads me to what I think is most likely: and that's that the 'betrayer' isn't the bad guy here. Buffy's own darkness is part of the problem. We've been flagging it all season long. It's gotten a lot of foreshadowing -- she wants to give into it. Dawn notably made a couple of references to slayers as demons. Angel can't be the righteous 'betrayer' on this account, because he's complicit in whatever has gone wrong with Buffy. But Spike could be. We've done a lot of compare/contrast on Spike and Angel that sets Spike up for the role to be the vampire self that still has a moral compass. Angel slogs along listening to voices (reminding us of the line about the moron that chaos employs, with moron or 'simple' coming up twice so far in Last Gleaming about Angel); Spike goes out and does some research and figures out what's going on. But there's still far more story-richness to be found by having one of the Scoobies step up to the plate as the righteous 'betrayer':

Way too much in the mix to make any forecasts or speculations. Dawn's keyness has been mentioned enough to matter. Xander's gun got highlighted, and guns have been mentioned enough to matter. Giles' willingness to take down a slayer has been mentioned enough to matter. The season has been far more about human-slayer conflict than vamire-slayer conflict and that gets personalized if one of Buffy's humans turns on her. I find it hard to believe that Joss would step over all of that rich story that's actually part and parcel of season 8 to get to some story about how the ex-boyfriend who's been scarcely mentioned all season long somehow went bad offstage and swooped in at the last minute to mess things up.

I agree with a lot of this. While these past few posts have been exploring the idea of Spike being the betrayer, I'm not very attached to that theory. Two reasons, and you've essentially mentioned them already:

1) Spike is not plan guy. He's impulsive guy. I just can't see him setting up this whole thing. It's not his style. Furthermore, what motivation does he have? I'm not a fan but I genuinely cannot think of a single thing that would justifiably push him to this.

2) Like you say in your final sentence, Spike being the big bad gives far too much weight and importance to the Buffy/Angel/Spike triangle. It would be especially frustrating when it appears that issue has been resolved.

On the other hand there are a few things that cast Spike in a shady light:

1) His avoidance of answering questions about how he knows what he knows. He brushes Xander aside in 36 when he raises the question, quite noticeably too. Speaking Fyarl is not an answer at all. Especially when they are supposed to dim witted demons intent on destruction.

2) He's the Keeper of the Prophecy. The same prophecy that Whistler said was the biggest and worst they had ever seen. How the Hell did that happen? What does it even mean.

Personally, I think the betrayer has to be either him or Willow. The blurb says that the betrayer breaks rank and teams up with the Master to save the Seed. None of the Scoobies knew anything about this seed or Sunnydale. Spike did though, and Willow knew Spike was coming (plus, their as yet to be seen crossover over at Angel). She saw that betrayal, she knows it's coming.

The only problem that I can see with having Angel as the Judas in the story is that, while doing so would have definite shock factor, it would also pretty much preclude the one greatest opportunity for Angel to redeem himself for the crimes and atrocities that he instigated throughout Season 8, namely, sacrificing himself in an act of heroism by defeating the Big Bad, whether it is the Master, the REAL Twilight, or someone else completely different.

It wouldn't be all that shocking though, a lot of people expect that because of his betrayal already this season. But that is why it won't be Angel. Apart from the fact that he won't be there to betray her, he has no reason to. What Angel wanted was Twilight, he gave that up for Buffy. He has zero reason to turn on her.
 
Like I said, the one thing that strikes me as being on point is the prophecy about the person leading Buffy to hell, which is what Spike is doing now. I think my other considerations are stronger, so I don't think Spike is the betrayer. But if people want to hang their hats on that one line, I can at least say I see their point. But the rest is not very persuasive to me.

Are the 'shady' things in the text to make us see Spike as shady?

1. Not answering questions. Allie said that his first draft of this issue was full of explanations and that Joss told him to take them out. I really think that's all that's going on with Xander saying it's not an explanation. Xander speaks for us. None of this 'exposition' makes sense. It hasn't made sense since at least the beginning of the Twilight arc. Not when Willow was doing it or when Giles was doing it or anybody. I speak Fyarl is just a shout out to canon, and a short-hand way of answering the question as fully as it ever will be answered: as we saw in the page released early, Spike did some research. He asked around. He knows how to ask around in the demon world as well as the human world. One sentence to tell us a lot. After three years of practice, I'm getting that this is how comic book writing goes.

2. Keeper of the prophecy. That would be in the same blurb that said Spike was a former vampire. The blurbs aren't staying in the canon -- they don't make the TPBs. It's some copywriter's effort to tell us that it's Spike's turn to be exposition man.

There are so many things 'betrayer' could mean. One might be someone doing the betraying right now. Then maybe it'd have to be Willow or Spike. Though Giles has been doing lots of behind the scenes research; and who knows what Andrew might have dug up and shared with Xander. But I really don't think that's how it goes. Buffy and Angel have just destroyed the world. I'm thinking that's not sitting well with her friends. It's not like they haven't been around this block before. Xander has always thought Angel was bad news. Giles has ample reason to hate Buffy's trysts with the guy -- #24 even reminded us about Jenny Calendar. Dawn's got issues about the demon-side of slayers. There's a lot of kindling out there. All we need is a match. Say, Angel comes back with new orders from dog that the way to seal the thing back up is to sacrifice a key -- and Buffy goes along with it. Or maybe in the battle to secure the seed somebody gets killed and anger bursts forth. Or maybe Buffy loses to the Master again, and this time he turns her, and so Giles straps on the cross bow and goes a'hunting. Or maybe they get to the hellmouth and find out what the real trade-offs are and Buffy wants to zig and the others want to zag. Or maybe it's revealed that the only way to really stop this is to kill the slayer. Who knows? Maybe dog sends Angel back to do that job? Or maybe Giles is the one -- since he's the one who's preparing for it.

And it doesn't even have to be either/or. There are bombs buried all over season 8 waiting to go off. Guns kill Buffy's friends. Buffy won't kill Dawn tonight but she will kill her. Giles does a dry run on slayer assassination. Dawn talks about how slayers embrace their demonic sides and abandon their human sides. There's a lot of bad ugly about to bubble up.
 
Buffy is already in her Betrayal Outfit as of the end of #36... it's what she changed into after her shower in Spike's cabin. Since she's not wearing that outfit in the "Soon..." panel with Spike, that panel must take place after the betrayal.

Assuming that the artist and editor are as anal as we are...
 
S
Spikefan31
I hope you're right :)
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