Vengeance Demons

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CharmedSlayer85

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Granted we've only seen two vengeance demons on the show do you think there are male vengeance demons? Because I mean Buffy's theme throughout the show has been all about female power, but I mean every vengeance demon has their "speciality" so why not a male, it's not like men can't be warlocks and curse women that cheated on them or anything like that. I think there would be, but then again men might not wear the frilly pendant lol.
 
I always thought it was only women. But, Im pretty sure men could wish stuff too to the female vengeance demons.. Coz Hallie (was that her name?) was trying to convince anya that men needed vengeance too. And she went to Spike to get him to wish something bad upon Xander after he left her at the alter.

Altho i have noo idea. What about Anya's boss, D'Hoffryan, i wonder if he started out as just a vengeance demon.
 
I'm willing to bet there are male vengance demons. If a man needed vengance a Male one would come by and help. Hallfrex looked like they mothering type so she comes to kids that need help
 
Are you sure D'Hoffryn isn't a vengeance demon. He does say this -

D'HOFFRYN
Are you? Hmm. I'm afraid you don't see your true self. You are Anyanka. I'm a patron of a family of sorts. We're vengeance demons. I'm sure you've heard of us.
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Come to think of it...who's Loyd?

D'HOFFRYN
I figured I'd be hearing from you soon. The flaying of Warren Meers? Oh, truly inspired. That was water cooler vengeance. Lloyd has a sketch of it on his wall.
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I love that line :lmao: I don't think anyone knows who Lloyd is, they discuss it on the commentary.
 
I heard a great theory that Loyd is the dude that gives spike the challenges to enable him to get his soul back because in one of the scenes in the cave you can see a cave painting of a man tied between two trees - its only brief (i think its in two to go) but it is there. When spike first arrives at the cave and holds his lighter up to the walls there is clearly a painting of a guy with his mouth sewn up just like willow does to warren but this is shown before willow acctully does that so who knows if its just coincidence...

To the thread topic about male vengence demons - i think their probably would be but i think Da'Hoffran only has girls working for him because he says to Halfrek that he loves all his girls the same during Hell's Bells (though this dosen't mean that he dosen't have boys working for them, just that he dosen't love them...)
 
Yeah I agree with Tran^ I always thought Loyd was the demon that gave Spike his soul cuz of the drawings?
 
Also I D'Hoffryn can't be a vengeance demon, because vengeance demons were once human that were converted to become demons, they're not natural demons and D'Hoffryn is a full demon and doesn't have a necklace that can be broken
 
CharmedSlayer85 said:
Also I D'Hoffryn can't be a vengeance demon, because vengeance demons were once human that were converted to become demons, they're not natural demons and D'Hoffryn is a full demon and doesn't have a necklace that can be broken
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Really? I missed that. Where is that written down?

This is canon, as far as I know.

I'm a patron of a family of sorts. We're vengeance demons. I'm sure you've heard of us.
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nerd4hire said:
Really? I missed that. Where is that written down?

This is canon, as far as I know.
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It's not written down anywhere it's just from my own guess, because I mean we all know Anya was human and became a vengeance demon, and we know Halfrek was human because Anya mentioned she had "daddy issues," and those are the two vengeance demons we've seen on the show and they were both human and he wanted to recruit Willow as a vengeance demon, so it's safe to say that vengeance demons were all once human. Also D'Hoffryn is referred to as a lower being, and doesn't look human in the slightest to it's safe to say that he was never human.
 
CharmedSlayer85 said:
It's not written down anywhere it's just from my own guess, because I mean we all know Anya was human and became a vengeance demon, and we know Halfrek was human because Anya mentioned she had "daddy issues," and those are the two vengeance demons we've seen on the show and they were both human and he wanted to recruit Willow as a vengeance demon, so it's safe to say that vengeance demons were all once human. Also D'Hoffryn is referred to as a lower being, and doesn't look human in the slightest to it's safe to say that he was never human.
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I disagree. I'm not sure there's much that's "safe to say" as far as the canon of what exactly vengeance demons are is concerned. Buffyverse mythology can turn on a dime.

What we know so far is D'Hoffryn makes reference to himself as a vengeance demon, and makes reference to what I personally am assuming is another vengeance demon named Lloyd.

Consider this. Others mentioned a theory Lloyd is the demon Spike goes to to have his soul returned. Suppose they're right. Would that necessarily mean he wasn't also a vengeance demon? Spike makes statements like he wants to see Buffy "gets what she deserves". Sound vengeancy to me. OK so suppose in a future issue of Buffy Season 8 that demon returns. It turns out he is Lloyd, and he's also a vengeance demon. Not only can they do that if they want to, but there's backstory details which would make it all make sense.
 
maybe D'Hoffryn was human once, but because he's been a demon for so long, he looks like how he does.

Like for example, The Master, and Kakistos. They were so old that they had morphed into...other looking things.
 
There's nothing in Buffyverse mythology I know of stating D'Hoffryn couldn't be both a pure demon, and a vengeance demon. According to Fray vampires were created when a pure demon infected a human. In Angel you have pure demons and part demons. Demons can turn humans in demons. Vengeance demons could conceivably be pure demons demonifying humans and accepting those mixed blood demons into their clan for a specific purpose.
 
I always thought it was interesting that the issue of soul never came up with Anya/Anyanka (Or did it? Just ignore me if so, lol). Demons don't have souls, right? A few exceptions out there. Do vengeance demons have souls? Are they left in a mou-ping thing for safe keeping? Anya(nka) seemed to develop a conscience of sorts whan she became a demon the second time around. Too many transformations back and forth maybe. Or just the Xander effect.
 
I think it's just vampires (and possibly zombies) that wouldn't have souls. How else would you explain demons like Clem? Althought I guess you don't really need a soul to be a chirppy as he is. I don't remember anything that indicates that demons in general do not have souls.
 
definition of insane said:
I think it's just vampires (and possibly zombies) that wouldn't have souls. How else would you explain demons like Clem?
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Or Lorne, for that matter. Can't explain. The Buffyverse seems like a moral/metaphysical mess, if you take it all literally. But it works as metaphor I guess.

What about someone like that demon Kathy, from Living Conditions - sucking Buffy's soul away, "borrowing" it so she would blend in as human, I guess? Apparently she had no soul of her own.
 
goldenboy said:
Or Lorne, for that matter. Can't explain. The Buffyverse seems like a moral/metaphysical mess, if you take it all literally. But it works as metaphor I guess.

What about someone like that demon Kathy, from Living Conditions - sucking Buffy's soul away, "borrowing" it so she would blend in as human, I guess? Apparently she had no soul of her own.
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Or she did have a soul, but it wasn't a human soul so she was obviously recognizable by her family members
 
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