Was Buffy wrong?

[xfivebyfive]

I'm currently doing a rewatch and I just watched Revelations. The episode's leading up to Revelations when Buffy is hiding Angel's return from her friends, I was annoyed with Buffy for keeping Angel a secret. She should have told her friends that Angel was back once he had relatively returned to normal. By the episode Band Candy she should have told them he was back, but she was never even planning on telling them which was poor judgement on her part. So in Revelations when they find out and they have their intervention I find it hard to side with Buffy.

After all that Angel did in season 2, killing Jenny, torturing Giles, nearly getting Willow killed, for her to keep his return a secret and then date him makes her look extremely selfish. Particularly after Angelus tortured Giles. Giles gave up his relationship with Jenny because Buffy felt betrayed by her. Giles loves Buffy and sided with her, he gave up the one person in his life, that wasn't a child, for her. And Buffy can't do the same for him. Not only that but she doesnt even respect him enough to tell them that Angel was back. Her decision to date Angel in season 3 is extremely self-absorbed. She only thinks about herself, how much she loves Angel. How hard it would be on her to give him up.

I don't think Buffy is a selfish person, she saves the world time and again, and obviously cares about her friends. But when it comes to Angel she is selfish. They make their relationship (particularly in Revelations) out to be like a drug addiction, like Buffy CANNOT help herself, so it's not really her to blame. It's making excuses for what she does.

 

[VisionGirl]

Well, I don't know if I agree with the drug addiction analogy, but yeah, she was wrong. Now there were factors at play: the events of season 2 of course, her running away (so, just getting back on good footing with the gang), her not being sure why Angel was back & how she felt about it, his initial mental & physical state, and mainly her fear of the gang's reaction. Of course it became apparent that she should have told them, esp Giles. The only one I was truly annoyed at was Xander, because of course he & Willow were keeping secrets as well.

 

[zobothehobo]

I have to admit, every time I watch I am a little irritated by the fact that she doesn't tell them... But I know why she does that. After all Angelus did in Season 2, I think she's trying to protect Angel by not telling everyone he's back so they don't try to kill him. I don't think she's being selfish... I think she's just trying to protect Angel.

 

[fly on the wall]

I think that as the viewer we're not supposed to think Buffy was doing the right thing by hiding Angel. Especially after her talk with Giles. ("You don't respect me or the job that I perform." Ooh, that kills me every time.) I guess the question is, do we understand why she did it? And I do. She was majorly freaked out, for one thing. She didn't know WHAT to do with Angel at all or what lay ahead of him or who he even was now that he was back. Then there were her friends, who would be just as freaked out and confused as she was. They might kill Angel to be on the safe side, and clearly Buffy didn't want that. Buffy didn't lie to hurt anybody. She was just afraid of what would happen if she told the truth.

 

[MinwaraYana]

I think Buffy wanted to tell Giles and her friends, but she's not ready at that point(Revelations). And poor her that they found out before she decided to tell them. 🙁

 

[TaylorSwift]

Ok, first of all I don't blame Buffy and I don't think she's being self-absorbed dating Angel. So this girl can't even be with her love? That's the only freaky thing in her freaky life that makes sense to her (*little quote*). It's not her fault Angelus took over and started torturing people. Why she has to give him up? I mean, I get why, she's mortal,he's not etc etc let's put that aside for a minute and I can't find a reason for her not to date him. He tortured and killed people they cared about but it's not Angel and she was just trying to find a way to tell them, to explain what was going on without worrying them. I think she didn't tell the gang because she was extremely confused and couldn't unload this gigantic emotional baggage. Yes, Giles stood with Buffy with the whole Jenny thing but that's also because she lied to him just when they were really getting close, it hurt him. Giles is also much older and yes, more mature than Buffy that at this point is certainly not mature enough but that's just it: she wasn't ready to tell them and I think Giles' comment about respect fits in the episode but I don't wanna blame it all on Buffy, like Xander did...I hate him so much when he does this buts of his like he did on Dead Man's Party...like he always did the right thing. So, I don't blame entirely on Buffy..yes, she could've showed more respect by telling Giles, she could've talked to him and trust him but she clearly didn't want to and that's something I have to accept because I can think of the reasons behind it.

 

[Marisa]

In a way I can see why she kept Angel a secret. The scoobies of course would be very judgmental and maybe not even listen to her when she told them. They would act like they did in the intervention.
One thing that stuck out to me though in your post and I often forget at times is that Giles cut off contact from Jenny without a question because of the whole situation with her and Angel. So when looking at it this way it was wrong how she hid it from Giles. She should have told them but she mainly should have told Giles. If that makes sense I am getting a little tired.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

As much as Buffy was annoying doing so, hiding the secret, I think Xander was even more annoying. Because in my opinion, he didn't rush to tell the scoobies about Angel because of the Angel alive=danger factor, but because he's still jealous of Angel. He saw them kissing, and had to ruin it. I'm not saying he didn't care about his friends' safety, but I think it was partly because he didn't want Angel and Buffy together.

 

[Ms.Trick]

Well, I think Buffy was wrong, but I can understand her.

She loved Angel. Angel turned bad. She had to kill him when he was just good again.
When he was bad, he did things that are pretty much extremely hard to ever forgive. Giles is probably the one who suffered the most, after Buffy.
Then Angel comes back.
Buffy isn't sure wether is good, evil, or wild.
After a moment, she knows that he is good again.
But she can't really say to the others "Guys? Angel is back. Since a few weeks actually. And he is good."
Buffy could forgive Angel because she loved him. If she had told Giles right away, he would probably have wanted to test if Angel was really not Angelus, or make him pay. Or he just would refuse to include Angel in any Scoobusiness. In any cases, Angel would not be welcome. And I think Buffy knew that. I also think she realised she could never ask Giles to get over it and accept that she was with Angel again.
So I understand Buffy's reasons.


On the other hand, Giles more than anyone else had every right to know that the guy who killed his girlfriend and tortured him was back. He would maybe have tried to revenge or something, but eventually, he would not kill Angel, because he'd see that it's Angel and not Angelus.
But the fact that it was hidden from him by someone he trusted didn't even gave him the chance to revenge, to get over things. He just had to accept things the way they were "Angel is good again, sorry I didn't tell. Don't kill him okay?".
I think Giles deserved to know earlier and to have some kind of confrontation with Angel.


And I don't blame Xander for his speech, because from an extern point of view, it did look like Buffy wanted to "forget" all what happened with Angelus so she could see her boyfriend. If you don't put yourself in Buffy's shoes, it's what it looked like.

So I understand Buffy, but it doesn't make things right.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Yes and no.

I agree with you. She should've tell them. I understand she was scared, but that's what friends are for, to help you. Now, we don't know how would they react, especially Xander, but she should've tell them.

But when they found out, their reaction wasn't good and I don't support it. So that questions should she tell them or no.

 

[zobothehobo]

Something I want to add to what I've already said is I think she needed to figure out how she felt about him being back herself before she had other people telling her how to feel about him being back. She probably knew the reaction from her friends wasn't going to be good and was going to be strong... she was confused and freaked out and needed to calm herself down about it before she dealt with everyone else freaking out

 

[sosa lola]

What Buffy did was very understandable and I wasn't annoyed with her at all. But I also understand why the others were upset and I'd have felt betrayed as well. Angel didn't just hurt Buffy, he'd hurt them all. He'd almost killed each one of them except maybe for Cordelia and Oz. They had every right to be upset.

As much as Buffy was annoying doing so, hiding the secret, I think Xander was even more annoying. Because in my opinion, he didn't rush to tell the scoobies about Angel because of the Angel alive=danger factor, but because he's still jealous of Angel. He saw them kissing, and had to ruin it. I'm not saying he didn't care about his friends' safety, but I think it was partly because he didn't want Angel and Buffy together.

I disagree. While Xander was being his usual asshole, it had nothing to do with jealousy. It was about being betrayed, about watching Buffy so recklessly kissing Angel and perhaps giving him another moment of perfect happiness, about fear and anger and hate. But not jealousy. I'm not even sure if jealousy features anymore. Xander had every right to be scared and wary: His last memory of Angel was someone who wanted to end the world, someone who kidnapped and tortured Giles, Willow badly injured because of Angel, his arm broken because of Angel, Kendra dead because of Angel.

I think in the episode Xander was so blinded by his anger at Buffy because she lied to them that he acted like an ass. If he was the same jealous boy who wanted Buffy for himself, why didn't he show any jealousy toward Scott Hope? Buffy had been dating him for a while and Xander wasn't jealous, even when Buffy and Angel started dating later, he wasn't jealous. This season he was more focused on Cordelia and Willow.

 

[zobothehobo]

As much as Buffy was annoying doing so, hiding the secret, I think Xander was even more annoying. Because in my opinion, he didn't rush to tell the scoobies about Angel because of the Angel alive=danger factor, but because he's still jealous of Angel. He saw them kissing, and had to ruin it. I'm not saying he didn't care about his friends' safety, but I think it was partly because he didn't want Angel and Buffy together.

I can't believe I skipped this. I totally agree. Xander bothered me a lot when it came to Angel. He hated Angel even when he wasn't Angelus because he was jealous. I hated Xander a lot when it came to every relationship Buffy had... He was pro-Riley, anti-vampire, and just annoying.

But I totally agree, I think he did rush to tell everyone because he wanted Buffy and Angel to not be together..

 

[Icarium]

Why am I not surprised that a thread about "was Buffy wrong?" turned to "let's bash Xander"?🙄

Let's be serious, Buffy hiding Angel was grossly irresponsible of her. All of her friends agreed about that and her denial wasn't exactly convincing. It wasn't just Xander jumping to conclusions.

But she can't really say to the others "Guys? Angel is back. Since a few weeks actually. And he is good."

Why the heck not? They supported her all the way after Innocence and now suddenly they don't deserve to know? Buffy's idea that they would all rush to kill Angel is quite laughable, IMO, not least because Angel isn't a sitting duck and even if the Scoobs do that there is no guarantee they will succeed. Or she can hide Angel some place the Scoobs don't know and then tell them he is back, this way they wouldn't be able to go dust him even if they wanted to. The only actual danger is Faith and Buffy could have gone a long way towards preventing the danger if she had explained the situation to her long ago. She didn't. I understand that the topic was painful for her but if you hide secrets from people you shouldn't act outraged if they got the wrong idea or don't take too kindly to being lied to.

Personally, I find it very refreshing that the show doesn't present Buffy as 100% right, it's a rather stark contrast to S5-7 where each and every argument is manipulated in her favour.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

What Buffy did was very understandable and I wasn't annoyed with her at all. But I also understand why the others were upset and I'd have felt betrayed as well. Angel didn't just hurt Buffy, he'd hurt them all. He'd almost killed each one of them except maybe for Cordelia and Oz. They had every right to be upset.






I disagree. While Xander was being his usual asshole, it had nothing to do with jealousy. It was about being betrayed, about watching Buffy so recklessly kissing Angel and perhaps giving him another moment of perfect happiness, about fear and anger and hate. But not jealousy. I'm not even sure if jealousy features anymore. Xander had every right to be scared and wary: His last memory of Angel was someone who wanted to end the world, someone who kidnapped and tortured Giles, Willow badly injured because of Angel, his arm broken because of Angel, Kendra dead because of Angel.

I think in the episode Xander was so blinded by his anger at Buffy because she lied to them that he acted like an ass. If he was the same jealous boy who wanted Buffy for himself, why didn't he show any jealousy toward Scott Hope? Buffy had been dating him for a while and Xander wasn't jealous, even when Buffy and Angel started dating later, he wasn't jealous. This season he was more focused on Cordelia and Willow.

Let's agree to disagree. To me it seemed that besides the anger he had, Xander didn't let go of his feelings toward the fact that Buffy and Angel were together, before and after. He saw them kissing, not just hanging out together. He didn't want them back together, and he didn't care if Angel was evil or not. He didn't. He didn't even try to find that out first. Because he didn't care.

 

[Ms.Trick]

Why the heck not? They supported her all the way after Innocence and now suddenly they don't deserve to know? Buffy's idea that they would all rush to kill Angel is quite laughable, IMO, not least because Angel isn't a sitting duck and even if the Scoobs do that there is no guarantee they will succeed. Or she can hide Angel some place the Scoobs don't know and then tell them he is back, this way they wouldn't be able to go dust him even if they wanted to. The only actual danger is Faith and Buffy could have gone a long way towards preventing the danger if she had explained the situation to her long ago. She didn't. I understand that the topic was painful for her but if you hide secrets from people you shouldn't act outraged if they got the wrong idea or don't take too kindly to being lied to.

True, they deserved to know. But what I mean is that she waited too long before saying it to the Scoobies, and I think that if she had said "Guys, he is back since a few weeks", the Scoobies would probably be upset/mad/disappointed that she didn't said it right away. I think Buffy knew that she should have told them earlier, but the fact is, she waited, waited, waited, kissed Angel...And she knew that it was very wrong to do this without telling anyone. So of course she can say "He's back since a few weeks", but I think she was afraid of their reaction because 1) she didn't tell them and 2) she waited quite a long time to say it.
I think too the Scoobies deserved to know, but the longer she kept that secret, the hardest it was to say it...you know? 🙂

 

[dan k]

Although i think Buffy was wrong in keeping Angel's return a secret i don't blame her for doing so. As a young girl she was worried how Angel would be treated by the Scoobies and her love for him meant understandably she worried about his welfare.

It wasn't her fault she was so madly in love with him. Its ok to sit back and say she should have told them but things aren't so clear cut in real life. Her concern was for Angel which wasn't a surprise considering she'd lost him before.

 

[Tome]

I agree with most of the things you said Katie. Except the whole drug addiction comparison. It wasn't the case. She mostly wanted to protect Angel from her friends retribution. I understand why she did it, but I think at least Giles deserved to know. He wouldn't have went and killed him by then. And Giles was almost a father for our Buffster 🙁

 

[Hero]

I think the only wrong thing Buffy did was get upset when they found out. People react to circumstances differently, so after all Buffy went through I could understand her not knowing how to deal with Angel's return properly. It's the fact that she cried and got upset when they found out. I was like, really? She had to know somewhere deep down that hiding Angel from everyone was wrong, and there would be consiquences. I kinda felt like Buffy you did wrong, man up and take it instead of playing the victim.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Ya she was wrong but I see where she was coming from. She was at her lonliest at this moment because there was noone she could confide in or ask what to do. She knew that everyone would be pretty mad about her keeping the secret and not coming to them immediatly and she knew that Xander&Giles would be the harshest about it. There was no way to breaking it to them without anyone taking it calmly.

Giles probably would have wanted to kill him if he saw him in his animalistic state that he first came in.