Was Giles Right In Killing Ben?

[TheAnnointedOne]

I apologise if there is already a thread about this - I cant seem to find one.....

Ive just been thinking about Giles's key moments in BtVS. And this is a big question!

Should Giles have killed Ben? Do you see it as murder? Or was he justified because he was saving the world? Was it right to trade one life for that of six billion? Was Ben an innocent?

This is a great dramatic moment, Giles says:

"Sooner or later, Glory will re-emerge and make Buffy pay for that mercy, and the world with her. Buffy even knows that, and still she couldn't take a human life. She's a hero, you see. She's not like us."

Bear in mind he says at the beginning of the episode,

"I've sworn to protect this sorry world, and sometimes that means saying and doing... what other people can't. What they shouldn't have to"

🙂

 

[Enemies]

I think its the whole greater good argument, sacrifice one to save many. I think its a fantastic scene that really highlights the depths of Giles as a character and what he is willing to do for the good of his slayer and the scoobies he has come to love.

 

[BuffyElevated]

I think Giles was right. It was a hard, horrible thing he had to do, but he was right; if he didn't kill Ben, Glory would reemerge and make Buffy and the others pay for what they had done to her. It was a shame to have to kill a human, but Giles did what was necessary.

 

[Tome]

One guy dying to keep the WHOLE world safe? Yes, it was right. Even more so considering Ben had chosen to help Glory in the end. I didn't cry over his death, far from it. Even though it was sad to see what Giles had to do. I felt for him.

 

[TheAnnointedOne]

One guy dying to keep the WHOLE world safe? Yes, it was right. Even more so considering Ben had chosen to help Glory in the end. I didn't cry over his death, far from it. Even though it was sad to see what Giles had to do. I felt for him.

I completely agree - it was difficult to watch but I understood his motives. And yes, Ben was not simply just "an innocent." If Ben was going to sacrifice Dawn for himself, Giles could sacrifice Ben for the world. Indeed, as Enemies says it is the greater good argument. The difference between Giles and Buffy's approach is the concept of punishment based on desert or consequences. Giles knew BUffy couldnt kill him so he did it for her so that she wouldnt have too - its shows just how much he loves her not allowing her to take that on herself.

I wonder whether he kept this too himself, or whether he actually told this to any of the gang? If not, I wonder if anyone else would have questioned going after Ben?

Such a great moment in such a fantastic episode!

🙂

 

[WileyDairyGnome]

Of course it was right for Giles to kill Ben. I don't know if I'd call it murder, more as a sacrifice. If he didn't kill Ben, Glory would have continued to destroy the world, Ben has no control over her. And I didn't really care that he died anyways, I didn't care for his character.

 

[caitaintdead]

It's one of those age old questions. The gang weren't prepared to let Willow die to save the world back in Season 3. It makes me wonder whether Giles would have been so quick to let someone he cared about die. I think Buffy posed an interesting point when she questioned why Giles was so quick to say that Dawn should die to save the world.

It's easy for me to say that I would kill one person to let a million others live... Unless it was my mum or dad and then all of a sudden everything changes...

 

[kittenpoker]

One guy dying to keep the WHOLE world safe? Yes, it was right. Even more so considering Ben had chosen to help Glory in the end. I didn't cry over his death, far from it. Even though it was sad to see what Giles had to do. I felt for him.

Right and I think ben's cowardice/betrayal of dawn in the end made the decision more palpable for us....I think morally it still would have been justified even if he didn't but harder for us to handle....

 

[sisterofmercy]

Morally speaking, no as nobody ever deserves to be killed. However, in the context of the story, it was the most appropriate course of action in order to save the world and there didn't appear to be any alternative.

 

[SupportOGal]

There is no question in my mind that Giles did the right thing in killing Ben. I like how he lets Buffy and the rest of the gang still be kids - not killing humans is still black and white for them, so he shoulders this burden.

I think the situation with Willow in Season 3 is a little bit different, because it wasn't a choice between Willow and the world at that very moment - there was still time to take down the Mayor.

As to whether or not Giles would sacrifice someone he cares about, I think the answer is a resounding yes. Certainly, Buffy cares the most about Dawn, but it isn't like Giles doesn't care about her - if it was too late with Glory, killing her would be the right thing. I think Giles would sacrifice any of them - including Buffy - if it meant saving the world. Afterwards, he certainly wouldn't be the same Giles, of course, but he'd do it. And you know what else? Despite her "I will kill anyone who goes near Dawn" speech, I really think that if there had been no other options at the end of The Gift, Buffy would have killed Dawn to save the world.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

My wonder is about him telling someone about it. He probably told the gang, maybe Buffy after she came back. But my wonder is where it doesn't come up again. It's like they're all okay with it. Or too ashamed to talk about it. It doesn't seem like it bothered Giles that much. Though he's very into the mission that maybe he doesn't show that it is a horrible thing he did. But it never comes up again, and that's a little weird and brings up questions about his motives and feelings during the act.

 

[kittenpoker]

My wonder is about him telling someone about it. He probably told the gang, maybe Buffy after she came back. But my wonder is where it doesn't come up again. It's like they're all okay with it. Or too ashamed to talk about it. It doesn't seem like it bothered Giles that much. Though he's very into the mission that maybe he doesn't show that it is a horrible thing he did. But it never comes up again, and that's a little weird and brings up questions about his motives and feelings during the act.

On the commentary of Lies My Parents Told me, someone (I forget who, sorry) was saying that he wanted giles to make this big speech to buffy in the graveyard while he's having her stall so wood can kill spike about how he killed ben to save the world but then, the counter argument to that was that it was 2 seasons ago and fans wouldn't really care.... I hope I'm doing that justice.

 

[patriot1123]

It was definitely the right thing to do, for pretty much all the reasons people have already given here.

I would emphasize that Ben was not an innocent. He was helping Glory by then and he was willing to sacrifice Dawn (truly an innocent) to save his own skin.

I would also point out that the good and moral thing for Ben to have done would have been to kill himself, to prevent Glory from continuing to use him and destroy the world. He was too cowardly to do that, leaving Giles with no choice.

I do wonder why they didn't try somehow to show what Giles thought of his actions, how it affected him to have done that.

There's a fanfic somewhere, that I only skimmed because I didn't care for it (among other things, it was too overwrought, as so much fanfic is), where Giles tells Buffy what he did and she gets really angry. I don't think that's how she would have reacted. But I doubt he ever told her.

 

[Goby]

I just watched the scene. How did Giles "physically" kill him? How did he smother him with one hand? I'm troubled by the scene because it seemed impossible for Giles to kill him in the manner that he did.

 

[patriot1123]

I just watched the scene. How did Giles "physically" kill him? How did he smother him with one hand? I'm troubled by the scene because it seemed impossible for Giles to kill him in the manner that he did.

It made sense to me. Ben was terribly weakened by Buffy's extremely violent attack on Glory. Giles made sure exactly how weak he was by asking, first, "Can you move?" When Ben responded "Just ... need a minute," he confirmed to Giles that he would be physically too weak to fight Giles off. I think under those circumstances, and Giles is a big, strong man, it could be done in that way. Not that I know from personal experience, of course. HA! 🙂

 

[caitaintdead]

patriot1123 agrees: But there were viable alternatives to sacrificing Willow in s3, as they proved.

But what if there was a viable alternative to the Ben situation? It's not like anyone did any research on it that we were shown.

 

[patriot1123]

But what if there was a viable alternative to the Ben situation? It's not like anyone did any research on it that we were shown.

I think Buffy getting her butt seriously, and almost fatally, kicked every.single.time she faced Glory constituted research. And we can also assume that Giles -- and the Watcher's Council, even though they were a bunch of dicks -- were hitting the books thoroughly. I have no trouble believing that there was no alternative to killing Ben.

 

[caitaintdead]

I think Buffy getting her butt seriously, and almost fatally, kicked every.single.time she faced Glory constituted research. And we can also assume that Giles -- and the Watcher's Council, even though they were a bunch of dicks -- were hitting the books thoroughly. I have no trouble believing that there was no alternative to killing Ben.

But they didn't even know that Ben was Glory until right at the end there. There simply wasn't much time to do thorough research to find out if there was an alternative. For the record I think Giles made a decision that is a shade of grey, but I don't believe it was the wrong decision.

 

[patriot1123]

But they didn't even know that Ben was Glory until right at the end there. There simply wasn't much time to do thorough research to find out if there was an alternative. For the record I think Giles made a decision that is a shade of grey, but I don't believe it was the wrong decision.

Wait. Ben is Glory? 🙂 (That was such a funny aspect to this arc - loved Spike's reaction.)

Yes - the shade of grey is one of the delightfully complex aspects of my favorite character.

 

[AlyInWonderland]

Wait so Ben is subletting from Glory?

I think Giles was completely in the right for killing Ben. He stepped up as a watcher to do something that his slayer could. I can't remember if he did or not, but I don't think Giles ever told Buffy to kill Ben. And part of me thinks he would never ask her to kill an innocent human. Although if he did ask her and I just forgot about it...then erase my last sentence 😉