Was Giles Right In Killing Ben?

AlyInWonderland said:
I can't remember if he did or not, but I don't think Giles ever told Buffy to kill Ben. And part of me thinks he would never ask her to kill an innocent human. Although if he did ask her and I just forgot about it...then erase my last sentence 😉
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He didn't. The only time it came up, was in the Magic Shop cabal, when Xander suggested that Ben could be killed and then immediately seemed to regret the suggestion. Giles responded that Ben was unlikely to resurface at this point.
 
A
AlyInWonderland
Ok, good. I don't trust my memory sometimes :)
patriot1123 said:
He didn't. The only time it came up, was in the Magic Shop cabal, when Xander suggested that Ben could be killed and then immediately seemed to regret the suggestion. Giles responded that Ben was unlikely to resurface at this point.
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I'm also with the lack of knowledge a little, but doesn't he strongly suggest that Buffy kill Dawn?
 
I don't think it's really ever "right" in the Buffy world to kill a human, period, even when they are evil, but in this case I don't believe there is any other option. Ben couldn't contain Glory, and you know she wouldn't go quietly into the night after all that. She would come back and kill them all as soon as she was able. Giles made the decision that needed to be made.

Giles didn't suggest that Buffy kill Dawn, he volunteered himself to do it. Dawn also wasn't technically all human, either, and again, greater good. Not good decisions to have to make, but they need to be made.
 
I was thinking more about this today, and I thought of an irony that I don't recall anyone mentioning yet. Ben likely saved Giles's life, which makes it even more complicated to evaluate what Giles did to Ben. I still think he had no choice, but the irony is interesting.
 
PassionBecoming
PassionBecoming
Ooo, good observation.
S
sisterofmercy
I think that was probably intentional, good observation though
M
Mithol
I always found the irony in that just awesome. Great writing.
It was wrong. Yeah, it may or may not have been for the "greater good", but that doesn't make it right in any capacity. Giles was wrong to do it. No question. Ben was a Human. It was completely wrong.

I miss Glory sometimes though.
 
I don't think you can see Ben as a human. He and Glory shared one body, which makes half of him a Hell God, in my opinion.
The two personalities weren't completely separated the moment (before) Giles killed Ben and they couldn't be sure that Glory wouldn't come back.

I don't have a problem with Giles murdering Ben, but I'm also not saying that it's OK to kill a human, of course.
But, as I said, I don't consider Ben a human.
 
JCoatsworth said:
I don't think you can see Ben as a human. He and Glory shared one body, which makes half of him a Hell God, in my opinion.
The two personalities weren't completely separated the moment (before) Giles killed Ben and they couldn't be sure that Glory wouldn't come back.

I don't have a problem with Giles murdering Ben, but I'm also not saying that it's OK to kill a human, of course.
But, as I said, I don't consider Ben a human.
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But he was. He had no powers and had done very little wrong, except be selfish, which, in his position, I can't honestly I wouldn't do the same.

Glory was the hell god part though. Not him. He wasn't bad.

And niether was Glory really when you think about it.

I mean, you kill bugs, like roaches or misquitoes whenever you see them right? Well, Glory is a God, so, to her, we hold the same capacity that bugs do to us. And we'd easily and without a seconds hesitation step on them and kill them if they were standing between us and our home.
 
Dagenspear said:
But he was. He had no powers and had done very little wrong, except be selfish, which, in his position, I can't honestly I wouldn't do the same.

Glory was the hell god part though. Not him. He wasn't bad.

And niether was Glory really when you think about it.

I mean, you kill bugs, like roaches or misquitoes whenever you see them right? Well, Glory is a God, so, to her, we hold the same capacity that bugs do to us. And we'd easily and without a seconds hesitation step on them and kill them if they were standing between us and our home.
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Well, to me he wasn't at the end of season 5. They couldn't have risked the whole world, only because it wasn't Ben's fault that he shared his Body with Glory. And sharing your body with a Hell God is, in my opinion, very inhuman 😛

What would've happened to Ben if Glory's plan had succeeded anyway? Do they say something about that? I can't really remember.


Oh, by the way, I don't kill bugs and stuff. I'm very fond of animals 🙂
 
JCoatsworth said:
Well, to me he wasn't at the end of season 5. They couldn't have risked the whole world, only because it wasn't Ben's fault that he shared his Body with Glory. And sharing your body with a Hell God is, in my opinion, very inhuman 😛

What would've happened to Ben if Glory's plan had succeeded anyway? Do they say something about that? I can't really remember.


Oh, by the way, I don't kill bugs and stuff. I'm very fond of animals 🙂
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I believe that Glory told him she'd take care of him in the hell dimension....presumably he'd retain his identity - separate from her and be "taken care of".

and, I do kill bugs I'm ashamed to admit. I know all life is sacred but I think bugs are icky. :-(
 
Well think about it this way; if he didn't kill Ben then maybe Glory would still be around (and trapped) and would most likely kill everyone out of anger.
 
It was a difficult choice to make. Someone had to make it. Who better than Giles? He's always trying to protect her. He's the closest thing she has to a father. In that moment Giles was doing what any father would do. Taking the responsibility of killing someone that needed to be killed. Killing humans may not be what they signed up for...But in this particular circumstance it was just. If Giles hadn't killed Ben then Glory would have killed Dawn, Possibly a lot of the scoobies, and could have opened the hell dimension herself. Ben/Glory was a threat that needed to be exterminated.
 
Sad as it is, sometimes bad things have to be done for the greater good. This a pretty extreme example, but it makes for a great discussion.

My memory of Season 5 is foggy, but I recall no indication whatsoever that Ben had any control over Glory. In that last scene with him the idea is just kind of thrown into the air.

BUFFY: Run. Run away, Ben. And never return.
BEN: Well, alright then!

It's pretty obvious that Glory would have eventually come back for revenge, if not immediately then soon after. And Ben would not have been able to do a thing to stop her. So Giles, with the whole world at stake, did the scary thing (and it is scary when you first see it) and suffocated him.

Here's my question though. Buffy let Ben live, but do you think she knew Giles was going to come in after her and finish the job?
 
I think that Ben accept the death of Dawn and so he was also as bad as Glory was. HE was a danger for the world and he had to be eliminated. ANd I think we had seen RIPPER inside of Giles who decided to kill.
 
Technically it was murder, Giles intended to kill Ben. Thing is, could it ever get to court?
Was Ben created as a prison for Glorificus.
(Could a person be charged with the murder of a supernatural entity).
Alternatively, was Ben born a human? Was Ben's body taken over by the other Gods on the planet that Glorificus came from? If so then those other Gods should technically be charged with Ben's murder.
Once again he gets off 'scott free', or as in this case - Giles free -.
 
I believe that Giles was right. The reason people react so harshly to it is because of who we know Giles to be and what we know the Scoobies to be. We also have a certain right vs. wrong mindset. And because we have never been put in this situation we don't fully understand what Giles might have been thinking. But he was right to kill Ben. Ben may have been an innocent, kind of but Glory wasn't and that was the only way. Nobody could count on Glory or Ben for that matter after what had happened.
 
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