Was it necessary for Angel to leave?

[Carrrrgh]

It really bothers me that Angel got a spin off and he left BTVS for that reason. He and Buffy were so good together and the show was doing so well but when Angel left, the ratings steadily decreased as did the quality of Btvs.

So my question to you is do you think it was really necessary for Angel to leave Buffy or did he leave for the sole reason to pursue his own show Angel.

It bothered me because it seemed selfish for the writers to recognize the popularity of Angel and seize that opportunity to give him his own show when in my opinion, both shows were less interesting because Angel and Buffy were split up. If Angel had just stayed in Sunnydale and the writers kept David on Buffy, don't you think Buffy would have been better in the final seasons?

 

[Goby]

Yes!!!

AtS is amazing. I'm so glad it exists.

BtVS Seasons 4, 5, 6, and 7 are my favorite. I think the show got better when he left (but not necessarily because he left). And Buffy grew as a person when Angel left.

Don't forget, Joss "Shipkiller" Whedon loves to kill ships. Usually it's by death, and sometimes a person just leaves (like Oz). What a great way to kill a ship, without killing a popular character... just give them a show. :: dracula

 

[Scarlett Blade]

By the end of season 3, Angel was hardly doing anything besides being a on/off love interest for Buffy. He wasn't developing as a character, and it had also come to a point in the Bangel relationship where they really couldn't be together without major difficulties. Honestly, what could he have contributed to the show past those seasons? His being involved with Buffy would be the only role he could play, honestly. He needed his own show, so that he would be able to develop. And I wouldn't give up the show Angel even if it meant mabye not having potentials in season 7, or the lame adam storyline in season 4.

 

[Kean]

I think it was essential for both he and Buffy that he go, but I also think that both stories would have been better if there had been more communication between the two, or even as was suggest by another thread, if Angel had been cancelled and he and Cordy returned after ATS S1.

 

[Hale Caesar]

Yes. I'm a big fan of Buffy/Angel, but their relationship would have been really boring after 7 seasons, less is often more. AtS was also a really good show too, and the characters are much more fun and interesting than the Scoobies (IMO)

It was a natural progression hat Joss and David Greenwalt did an awesome job setting up, Angel is a hero, and his character would have only been hurt if he had to stay in Buffy's shadow. And the few moments where the shows crossover were always special. Angel is also hilarious and original...evidence

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcdLod6pY3k"]YouTube - ‪Angel Gets The Pink Helmet‬‏[/ame]

 

[caritas08]

Yes, because we get 12 seasons of the Buffyverse instead of just 7. I do agree that after Angel left both shows didn't always fire of of both cylinders but I think that would've happened with or without the spinoff.

 

[white avenger]

I think it was essential for both he and Buffy that he go, but I also think that both stories would have been better if there had been more communication between the two, or even as was suggest by another thread, if Angel had been canceled and he and Cordy returned after ATS S1.

There probably would have been more communication between the two shows, and almost certainly more crossovers, like maybe a big yearly event, if Buffy hadn't left WB. Having the two shows on two separate networks greatly limited the possibility of that.

As for Angel and Cordy returning permanently to "Buffy," I just don't see how that could work. Angel had become established as the leader of his own team. Coming back to Sunnydale would have only demoted him to third place, behind Buffy and Giles.

And there simply wasn't anything in Sunnydale for Cordy anymore. No family, no home, no reason whatsoever to return.

 

[Goby]

There probably would have been more communication between the two shows, and almost certainly more crossovers, like maybe a big yearly event, if Buffy hadn't left WB. Having the two shows on two separate networks greatly limited the possibility of that.

As for Angel and Cordy returning permanently to "Buffy," I just don't see how that could work. Angel had become established as the leader of his own team. Coming back to Sunnydale would have only demoted him to third place, behind Buffy and Giles.

And there simply wasn't anything in Sunnydale for Cordy anymore. No family, no home, no reason whatsoever to return.

And by Season 2 of AtS, she had aged from 18 to about 30. It would have been really, really weird to see her interact with the Scoobies.

 

[Hale Caesar]

And by Season 2 of AtS, she had aged from 18 to about 30. It would have been really, really weird to see her interact with the Scoobies.

It's called maturity. She got the visions and realize what was important in life. She still kept her sense of humor, but just stopped being petty and shallow. And I don't think it would have been weird to see her interact with the Scoobies, Cordelia just like the other Scoobies all changed, it would have been interesting to see what they would have to say to each other

 

[Goby]

It's called maturity. She got the visions and realize what was important in life. She still kept her sense of humor, but just stopped being petty and shallow. And I don't think it would have been weird to see her interact with the Scoobies, Cordelia just like the other Scoobies all changed, it would have been interesting to see what they would have to say to each other

Actually it's called casting a 28 year old as a 16 year old in BtVS Season 1, then getting the 31 year old to look about 30 in AtS Season 1. 😉

BTW, I think Charisma was great as an 16-18 year old in BtVS, and was great as a 30 year old in AtS.

 

[white avenger]

Actually it's called casting a 28 year old as a 16 year old in BtVS Season 1, then getting the 31 year old to look about 30 in AtS Season 1. 😉

Yeah, I think that you could say something similar for all of the cast members. As much as I loved the shows and the actors that played the parts, casting people as much as 10 years older than the character who they portray may be alright for one shot movies, but for (hopefully) long running TV series, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Teenaged roles should be played by teenagers.

 

[Hale Caesar]

Actually it's called casting a 28 year old as a 16 year old in BtVS Season 1, then getting the 31 year old to look about 30 in AtS Season 1. 😉

BTW, I think Charisma was great as an 16-18 year old in BtVS, and was great as a 30 year old in AtS.

We're talking about the character aren't we? Cordelia was the stereotypical self-centered high school girl, and then in AtS season 2 her characters acts like she's much older. So (from what I understand) you were saying it would be "weird" to see Cordelia interact with the Scoobies because in only a year her character acts much older. Then I said it was maturity because of the visions...etc

 

[Goby]

We're talking about the character aren't we? Cordelia was the stereotypical self-centered high school girl, and then in AtS season 2 her characters acts like she's much older. So (from what I understand) you were saying it would be "weird" to see Cordelia interact with the Scoobies because in only a year her character acts much older. Then I said it was maturity because of the visions...etc

I agree with that too. We're both right. 😉

 

[caritas08]

I think Willow, Xander and Buffy did look like teens up until the last two seasons. Anya and Cordelia never looked like teens to me but that never bothered me much. (Emma C. was 25 during Season 3). I do think it's strange that during Season 1 of Buffy, Cordelia was 25, Xander 25, Willow was 22, Oz 23, Buffy was 19, Darla 24, Angel 27, and Jenny Calendar 25.

Eliza Dushku and Mercedes are the only two (beside Michelle T.) I can think of that were as young as the characters they were playing.

It's also interesting to me that Amy is 6 years younger than Charisma but is supposed to be older than her in the show.

Having said that, I definitely don't mind suspending my disbelief about actors ages if that makes the acting better especially since I rarely see young teens that can really act. I read somewhere they were considering Katie Holmes for the part of Buffy but were worried that she was under 18 and couldn't work regular hours cuz of child labor laws. I also heard that Ryan Rynalds tried out for Xander.

 

[kndizzle]

There probably would have been more communication between the two shows, and almost certainly more crossovers, like maybe a big yearly event, if Buffy hadn't left WB. Having the two shows on two separate networks greatly limited the possibility of that.

As for Angel and Cordy returning permanently to "Buffy," I just don't see how that could work. Angel had become established as the leader of his own team. Coming back to Sunnydale would have only demoted him to third place, behind Buffy and Giles.

And there simply wasn't anything in Sunnydale for Cordy anymore. No family, no home, no reason whatsoever to return.

While I am never a fan of Buffy and Angel being separated, I also think that it was a necessary part of their individual character development. They needed to discover what it was like to work apart from each other, to mature separately.

I completely agree with you though, the network switch after season 5 was where the disconnect really was. It was simply out of character IMO, especially after Buffy's resurrection. I would have loved to see Angel and Buffy's respective teams working together at least once. But alas, here we are.

 

[InsaneMystic]

He shouldn't have been back for S3, anyway. It would've been unbearable to watch that mess between him and Buffy for even longer when it was already drawn out well beyond the point of tedious annoyance.

 

[Abby27]

I think character development wise, it was the right call to give Angel his own show. Joyce was right when she told Angel in s3 of Buffy that Angel couldn't offer her a real life - at least at that point. Maybe when Buffy is finished "baking" and has had a chance to fulfill herself as person, the idea that she can't go into the sun with Angel, can't have biological kids with him, and until they figure something else out, can't have sex with him won't be as big of a deal. But being 18, to have Buffy settle down for good with those limitations would have really limited her growth as character.

And Angel had really come into his own as well. He went from eating rats on the street to being a supportive player to the slayer. And by season 3, he had seen enough and had gotten enough confidence in who he was and why he was there to come into his own. I felt like Angel as a character outgrew Buffy and the gang who was going off to college. It felt right to have Angel move on.

 

[Marisa]

Well I look at that differently. If a show is only good because of two people or one relationship then the show isn't very good imo.

Angel the character to me needed his own show to grow away from Buffy she held him back in my eyes. He would always be Angel Buffy's boyfriend. I mean I had a friend watch Buffy recently and they said the same thing. They were like Angel is a pretty good character once you watch Angel, I was like yes I know 😛

I also think it was a smart move for David. If I was him I would have done the same thing. No matter how happy he was on Buffy he had to think about going deeper into the character. Also I am glad he took it since Angel is my favorite show and one of my favorite characters.

The ratings may have also went down because it was no longer the high school years and Cordy also left as well and then not long after Oz. It is always hard for a show to transition from High school to college/post high school life.

Overall I think it was necessary. I probably wouldn't even like the buffyverse as much if Angel had stayed on Buffy.

 

[Willow My Love]

I swear I've commented in a similar thread... Probably in the Close Your Eyes forum.

My Bangel-shipping heart says no, Angel never should have left. TBH, I hate how he did leave. He fought with Buffy then said he was leaving. And Joyce going to talk to him behind Buffy's back really bothered me. My mom didn't always like my relationships, but she let me go through them because I had to make my own mistakes. I wish she would have kept to herself and let Buffy learn.

But on the other hand, Angel did need to leave. Buffy was too stuck on him. She was too attached. She needed to grow and she wouldn't have if she had stayed with Angel. I don't think she ever stopped loving him, and vice versa. They make that very clear in the shows.

One thing that bothered me was that they sent Willow to tell Angel when Buffy died, but when Angel disappeared, Buffy didn't even get a phone call. Why not? They probably would have found him sooner with Buffy and the Scoobies helping out.

 

[ticonderouga]

The Bangel ship had gone as far as it could given their limitations. It would only have stagnated all the characters to have Angel stick around.

Having said that I was disappointed that they didn't do more crossover episodes after season 4 on Buffy and season 1 on Angel. I think that both series would have benefited more from this. I do think that having Cordy meet Xander after he had gotten his life going right would have been very interesting.