Was it wrong not to stake Spike?

[TheHalfBreed]

before I begin i just want to say im a huge spike fan!
He's one of the only cool english charechter out their (as is Giles/Ripper) so i am in no way saying 'I wish they had staked him!' so please all you spike fans dont dive on me

Wasnt it irresponsible for buffy THE SLAYER, not to stake spike. a old big bad, when he came to them saying he was chipped. for all they knew he was lying and just waiting for a chance to strike. i think it was very out of charechter that buffy didnt slay him, what do you guys think?

Altought im glad she didnt, spike rocks! 😛

 

[Skytteflickan88]

I think they should have. As soon as it turned out he knew nothing useful, they should have killed him.

Buffy should have because she's perfectly fine with staking evil massmurderers.
Anya should have, to protect Xander. It seems weird that she didn't.
Xander should have, but both he and Willow can be excused, they were still young and innocent(okay, Willow is just stupid for caring for Spike, after he threatened to rape her in Lover's walk and tried to turn her in season 4). Same with Tara.
Giles is a killer and he kills when he has to. The younger members of the Scoobie gang could be excused, but he's seen too much death to not take Spike seriously.

They let themselves believe he was safe, even tough he mentioned nothing about redemption(not until he feel in love with Buffy anyway), and the chip could stop working any time (or he could kill innocent demons or hold the scoobies while another demon killed them for him). And after him banding together with Adam, they all knew damn well what damage he could do.

I think it's extremely out of character for the entire gang to ignore the danger. So I blame the writers. They wanted to keep Spike around, so they had the scoobies accept him way too easily.

Don't get me wrong, I love his development as a character, but everytime I watch a scene reminding me that they let him live, I grind my teeth.

Btw, my slayage is 666. Mohahaha.

 

[Eleftheria]

I also do like Spike as a character. I like him evil or in season 5 of Angel with a soul.He is cool and funny.
But yeah, as a Slayer ,Buffy made a mistake by not staking him. He used to be with Angelus,the Big Bad in season 2 so why not?

 

[Kelsey]

Eh, technically she probably should have. He was there because the fans wanted him there, though, so of course they weren't going to stake him. Just like in Angel Season 5, when Spike should have hit the ground running toward Buffy once he got his body back.

I do have a theory, though, as to why they didn't stake him. I don't think Buffy could have killed something that couldn't fight back, even if it was a vampire like Spike. He wouldn't have been able to defend himself, and in her eyes, it probably would have felt wrong, even if it was more or less the right thing to do.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

Yeah, that's what I figure. They said on the show he was "harmless" and that's why they didn't do it, which wasn't true, because if he had tried hard enough, they would all be dead (I know everyone said Spike couldn't make a plan, but how hard is it to slip something into the scoobies milk, drag their unconsious bodies out to a demon nest and watch the show?).

I guess they just couldn't kill someone who couldn't defend themselves, and since they had to come up with a reason to not kill the dangerous massmurderer, other than the defensless thing, they told themselves he was harmless. Or maybe I'm splitting hair, and when they said "harmless", they meant defenseless.

Or maybe they trully didn't see him as a threat, because he was just so silly in season 4.

It was pretty easy for me to watch the show, and still get surprised when he acted evil, because I got time to forget the dark side of Spike. Mind you, I seemed to remember better than the scoobies, but still.

 

[BuffyElevated]

I think they should have. As soon as it turned out he knew nothing useful, they should have killed him.

Buffy should have because she's perfectly fine with staking evil massmurderers.
Anya should have, to protect Xander. It seems weird that she didn't.
Xander should have, but both he and Willow can be excused, they were still young and innocent(okay, Willow is just stupid for caring for Spike, after he threatened to rape her in Lover's walk and tried to turn her in season 4). Same with Tara.
Giles is a killer and he kills when he has to. The younger members of the Scoobie gang could be excused, but he's seen too much death to not take Spike seriously.

They let themselves believe he was safe, even tough he mentioned nothing about redemption(not until he feel in love with Buffy anyway), and the chip could stop working any time (or he could kill innocent demons or hold the scoobies while another demon killed them for him). And after him banding together with Adam, they all knew damn well what damage he could do.

I think it's extremely out of character for the entire gang to ignore the danger. So I blame the writers. They wanted to keep Spike around, so they had the scoobies accept him way too easily.

Don't get me wrong, I love his development as a character, but everytime I watch a scene reminding me that they let him live, I grind my teeth.

Btw, my slayage is 666. Mohahaha.

I totally agree... I always thought it was so weird after they realized that he couldn't really help them that no one took a stake to him.
But again, I come back to my theory about Joss and his buttmonkeys...

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

before I begin i just want to say im a huge spike fan!
He's one of the only cool english charechter out their (as is Giles/Ripper) so i am in no way saying 'I wish they had staked him!' so please all you spike fans dont dive on me

Wasnt it irresponsible for buffy THE SLAYER, not to stake spike. a old big bad, when he came to them saying he was chipped. for all they knew he was lying and just waiting for a chance to strike. i think it was very out of charechter that buffy didnt slay him, what do you guys think?

Altought im glad she didnt, spike rocks! 😛

It was absolutely out of character for Buffy to not stake Spike. I can't recall, though, what episode you are referring too. Was it 'The Initiative'?

I think Spike's 'get out of jail free' card that Anya so eloquently referred to in 'Lies My Parent's Told Me' was in effect far before anyone likes to admit it was. I guess this little glitch can be explained simply in that fact that Buffy didn't feel it was "right" to kill him when he was helpless and couldn't fight back. This was always her "excuse" for not staking him in S7, when he was under the influence of The First and had started killing again (and of course, her obvious feelings for him).

(P.S. I love Spike too. Thank God she never staked him! The shows better with him in it.)

---------- Post added at 09:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:49 PM ----------

I do have a theory, though, as to why they didn't stake him. I don't think Buffy could have killed something that couldn't fight back, even if it was a vampire like Spike. He wouldn't have been able to defend himself, and in her eyes, it probably would have felt wrong, even if it was more or less the right thing to do.

I agree (see my above post).

I think it's extremely out of character for the entire gang to ignore the danger. So I blame the writers. They wanted to keep Spike around, so they had the scoobies accept him way too easily.

Great point. Spike proved to be such a popular character that they had to jump through some hoops to write him into the greater arc. And that meant keeping him alive.

 

[sosa lola]

I think all the talk about the Scoobies being black/white characters is all false. This one of the examples of the Scoobies accepting demons who don't harm anyone. And Spike does get a "get out of jail free" card.

 

[thevikingsgirl]

It's hard to picture Buffy killing someone helpless. Remember when Giles took out Ben because he knew Buffy wouldn't? So in that way, I don't think it was out of character for her not to kill him when he couldn't fight back. And after he started killing again, well, I'm not surprised about that either. She felt she could keep people safe without killing him. She let Giles take Dark Willow to England, because they could keep people safe and let her live. She does this for people she cares about and whether or not you believe that Buffy was in love with Spike, I don't think anyone doubts she genuinely cared about him in SOME way by the time the First was making him kill people. To me, it seemed more out of character for her to instantly decide to kill Anya without any attempt to reach her once they realized she was all demony again. But she and Anya were never as close and she was to Spike or Willow.

You know what did surprise me? I mean, not really because I knew Spike was there for the long haul. But it seemed to me that Xander would've tried to kill him. And probably succeeded since Spike was basically helpless against humans. As much as Xander hated him, I'm surprised he never got rid of him. Even with Giles trying to help Wood kill Spike, that didn't seem personal so much as a practical decision to protect the potentials & foil the plans of the First. But Xander really hated Spike and before season 6, he could have staked him and Buffy would've been like, "One less thing to worry about." At least up til the point that he was willing to sacrifice himself to save Dawn. I think that episode is where Spike gained his protected status.

 

[saturn5]

No, if this was The Unit I'm sure they'd have killed him (as The Initiative shows us). But the whole idea of Buffy and the scoobs is that they maintain their humanity and ultimately it benefits them in the end. Easy to kill Spike in combat but in cold blood is probably something they're not capable off. He provides the scoobs with a moral dilemma but not the worst they'll have and I think they do the right thing

 

[thevikingsgirl]

No, if this was The Unit I'm sure they'd have killed him (as The Initiative shows us). But the whole idea of Buffy and the scoobs is that they maintain their humanity and ultimately it benefits them in the end. Easy to kill Spike in combat but in cold blood is probably something they're not capable off. He provides the scoobs with a moral dilemma but not the worst they'll have and I think they do the right thing

Definitely. The Scoobies are about protecting the innocent/helpless, not about revenge or punishment. Killing helpless Spike would have been more about punishing him for past deeds than protecting people from him. I think this is where the shift came in during season 7, when pretty much everyone but Buffy thought they should get rid of Spike. Now he was a danger again, but she cared about him so it was too late to just get rid of him. They missed their window, lol.

 

[sosa lola]

You know what did surprise me? I mean, not really because I knew Spike was there for the long haul. But it seemed to me that Xander would've tried to kill him. And probably succeeded since Spike was basically helpless against humans. As much as Xander hated him, I'm surprised he never got rid of him. Even with Giles trying to help Wood kill Spike, that didn't seem personal so much as a practical decision to protect the potentials & foil the plans of the First. But Xander really hated Spike and before season 6, he could have staked him and Buffy would've been like, "One less thing to worry about." At least up til the point that he was willing to sacrifice himself to save Dawn. I think that episode is where Spike gained his protected status.

I think fans exaggerate Xander's hate for Spike. I mean, sure, he hated him because Spike tried to kill them more than once before, but it wasn't enough to want him dead. He'd joked about killing Spike but never followed through. In fact, Spike was about to die in Doomed if it weren't for Xander who risked his life to save him when they were in the abandoned high school.

You know, I think the best time to dust Spike would be when he teamed with Adam in S4. But the Scoobies gave him another chance. They always do.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I think fans exaggerate Xander's hate for Spike. I mean, sure, he hated him because Spike tried to kill them more than once before, but it wasn't enough to want him dead. He'd joked about killing Spike but never followed through. In fact, Spike was about to die in Doomed if it weren't for Xander who risked his life to save him when they were in the abandoned high school.

You know, I think the best time to dust Spike would be when he teamed with Adam in S4. But the Scoobies gave him another chance. They always do.

I don't think Xanders hate for Spike is exaggerrated. I believe that Xander fully intended to kill Spike in 'Entropy.' The only reason he didn't follow through with it was because Buffy stopped him. Sure, as you say, he had joked about it in the past but he actually tried in 'Entropy'.

 

[thevikingsgirl]

And the disgust he felt for Spike was apparent in every word Xander spoke to him or about him.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

Definitely. The Scoobies are about protecting the innocent/helpless, not about revenge or punishment. Killing helpless Spike would have been more about punishing him for past deeds than protecting people from him. I think this is where the shift came in during season 7, when pretty much everyone but Buffy thought they should get rid of Spike. Now he was a danger again, but she cared about him so it was too late to just get rid of him. They missed their window, lol.

But the thing is, he never stopped being a danger. I get the no punishment deal, but fact is, he was dangerous all the time, and he wanted to be able to kill, so in case they really thought he was helpless, and not a threat anymore, they were kidding themselves.


And about Xander's hate for Spike;

Didn't that start when Spike confessed his love for Buffy? And after that tried to fit into the gang?

The first time I remember him being hateful towards Spike, not just being rude, was when Xander found Spike outside Buffy's house after Joyce died.

So Xander didn't have a reason good enough to kill Spike until late season 5, but then he was already a part of the group, and I think that's what made all of them even less likely to kill Spike.

 

[thevikingsgirl]

But the thing is, he never stopped being a danger. I get the no punishment deal, but fact is, he was dangerous all the time, and he wanted to be able to kill, so in case they really thought he was helpless, and not a threat anymore, they were kidding themselves.


And about Xander's hate for Spike;

Didn't that start when Spike confessed his love for Buffy? And after that tried to fit into the gang?

The first time I remember him being hateful towards Spike, not just being rude, was when Xander found Spike outside Buffy's house after Joyce died.

So Xander didn't have a reason good enough to kill Spike until late season 5, but then he was already a part of the group, and I think that's what made all of them even less likely to kill Spike.

I agree with you. I think Xander started to really hate Spike when he found out Spike had feelings for Buffy. Maybe he didn't quite hate him enough to try to stake him yet though.

I don't think Spike ever tried to fit in. He seemed to prefer catching Buffy alone, and I think the only reason he hung around after buffy died in season 5 was because he felt obligated to protect Dawn (and I also think he genuinely cared about Dawn at this point).

That scene in After Life, I think it was, was when I truly started to dislike Xander. Even if he thought Spike loving Buffy was totally ridiculous, this was a pretty big deal, her coming back from the dead. He could've been a little bit less of an a-hole about it.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

To show that she's loyal to her responsoblity, she should've staked him. But if you ask the writers, I think they had a big idea for him 🙂

 

[Emzzie]

To show that she's loyal to her responsoblity, she should've staked him. But if you ask the writers, I think they had a big idea for him 🙂

I agree. Even if he had a chip in his head, he still had a demon inside of him and was evil. I think for the first bit it was pretty obvious that he would have, or he was giving off the impression that he would have started killing the minute the chip malfunctioned or he got it out. Buffy's job was killing vampires and to show that she was loyal to her job as the slayer she should have killed him. He was a danger to the scoobies and others. There really was not much holding her back apart from him being a way to get information. But yes, the writers had more in store for him.

 

[sosa lola]

I don't think Xanders hate for Spike is exaggerrated. I believe that Xander fully intended to kill Spike in 'Entropy.' The only reason he didn't follow through with it was because Buffy stopped him. Sure, as you say, he had joked about it in the past but he actually tried in 'Entropy'.

There are many factors that helped that. Xander was depressed after leaving Anya, he hated himself and Spike was his punching bag, seeing Spike screwing Anya drove him nuts, so it wasn't much of hate as it was about anger and acting before thinking.

And about Xander's hate for Spike;

Didn't that start when Spike confessed his love for Buffy? And after that tried to fit into the gang?

I have to disagree with you there. Xander was quite understanding at the thought of Buffy sleeping with Spike in Intervention. He asked Spike not to hurt Buffy, told Buffy that he wasn't judging her, and later told Buffy to go easy on Spike because Glory had hurt him a lot.

I think Xander's dislike comes from Spike's not-so-good deeds, like when Spike chained Buffy because she didn't love him, all the gang were put off with him. Xander never knew about Spike's friendship with Joyce, obviously the only reason he'd come with flowers would be because he wants to woo Buffy.


It all comes to the state of his mind, S5 Xander was more level-headed and happy. S6 Xander was depressed, filled with self-loathing and regret, drinking his sorrows away.

 

[MysticMisfit]

They said on the show he was "harmless" and that's why they didn't do it, which wasn't true, because if he had tried hard enough, they would all be dead (I know everyone said Spike couldn't make a plan, but how hard is it to slip something into the scoobies milk, drag their unconsious bodies out to a demon nest and watch the show?).

not only that, he could very easily have hired some demon/vamp thugs to do something to them at any time - then again the poisoning thing brings up some interesting ambiguity concerning how the chip might work

it would hurt [him] like hell for about two hours but they'll be dead just a little longer than that??