Was Joyce a good mother?

Joyce was the best parent on the show, but she wasn't a good mom. She yelled at Buffy and kicked her out of the house when she knew she had to go save the world and had already been expelled and was going through a really hard time. She didn't listen to Buffy in Ted or Gingerbread (I know she was under a spell, but it still felt like something she was capable of inside). She always blamed Buffy for her problems and has said cruel things to her. She sent Buffy to a mental institution before the show when she had talked about vampires.
 
She yelled at Buffy and kicked her out of the house when she knew she had to go save the world and had already been expelled and was going through a really hard time.

Joyce's reaction in Becoming was 100% logical. She desperately wanted to protect her daughter. I mean, it's not normal to have a mother just be told that her daughter kills vampires and gets so chill and all like, "Bye bye dear, go kill those monsters you hero you!" That's not normal. Normal parents freak out when their kids go out to do shady business, they ground them or threaten them to keep them safe. "If you walk out of that door, don't even think about coming back" was Joyce trying to keep Buffy in the house for Buffy's own safety. Let's not also forget that Buffy was extremely disrespectful towards her mother in that scene, not to mention aggressively pushing her mother away knowing that she's 10 times stronger than Joyce.

She didn't listen to Buffy in Ted or Gingerbread (I know she was under a spell, but it still felt like something she was capable of inside).

In both cases, Joyce was under a spell.

She always blamed Buffy for her problems.

When did that happen?

She sent Buffy to a mental institution before the show when she had talked about vampires.

While I have issues with this retcon seeing as Joyce was genuinely shocked and surprised when Buffy told her in S2 that she was a vampire slayer - the first time ever that Buffy tells her, I think the poison struck into Buffy made her hallucinate and believe her parents did put her in an asylum. It never happened. It was the poison. Another theory says that it was the Dawn inserted memories adding a fake memory of Joyce and Hank putting Buffy in a mental institution. So, in reality, it never happened.
 
That's probably true of you, and it is of me. I still don't think it's true of most (nor do I mistake the greater society by my personal acquaintances as many do, nor do I believe naivety or pretending people are better than they are is a virtue as I know it is for many people who have the "(s)he who smelt it, dealt it" philosophy, or worse, that their beliefs actually shape reality by direct force so that to prepare for the worst is to invite it to happen, or that it angers God by a lack of faith and thus God will punish them with what they fear, etc). I started to share my reasoning but it was turning into an essay that involved history (including how common parents sent their children to abusive factories for the extra money rather than to school or otherwise protecting them, and I've seen enough to know many still would today if it were allowed by law), sociology, and personal experience (I don't mean just me, but of many I've known, and plenty of news stories show the same, as do the rates in which children are killed everyday in abuse, if not by their mothers then by people their mothers knew, and may have even watched, which is worst case scenario, many prefer convenience and like to pretend all is okay or simply shut down when put on the spot).

From my perspective, Joyce was downright smothering rather than neglectful. Guess I went too many days without eating (or having to go to friends, raid free food samples, etc) even on my mother's better days as a child for it to appear any other way (and I consider my mother better than some others I've known). I can buy that Joyce was (like many if not most people) deeply flawed, but not that she was neglectful, and certainly not unloving. If Buffy was neglected then that word has no meaning to me.

But in any case, I wasn't saying YOU were a bad mother, nor was I meaning to specifically slam mothers as a demographic since I have fairly low expectations of about everyone (though not in a hair pulling way, and it's much easier to pleasantly surprise me as often happens than to disappoint me). I'm sure we'll just have to agree to disagree on whether Joyce was better or worse than many, but I didn't want you to think I was slamming all mothers. It's not my intent to make anyone feel bad about themselves, and everyone (mother, childless by choice, kids, and about everyone else) feels constantly criticized for their choices or how they are.

Though there was one tidbit of info I read in a book on criminal psychology: when the FBI find a murdered child who has been put into a coat then they automatically look to the mother. It seems even mothers who murder their own children retain some maternal feelings for an offspring even after dead. I share that as I find it interesting (and it does imply an ingrained protectiveness even in the mothers who kill their own children), and also because it reminds me of the scene where Willow's mother tells Willow to get her coat even as she intends to burn her at the stake (insanity caused by demonic power aside, that's actually accurate!).

Hmmm....this song sums up how I view people (which includes mothers), and set to Buffy...and I just found it this morning:


I'm sharing because it's Buffy/Angel (and I just found it this morning so it's fresh on my mind), but I mean it more for the lyrics, though ("Underneath it all, we're just savages, hidden beneath shirts, ties, and marriages, how can we expect anything at all when we're animals still learning to crawl").

I really can't respond to this without seeming like a pampered kid. I'm sorry you went through that as a child. I can see it from your perspective, although to be honest I can't relate. 🙁 there is a lot of terrible in the world and people can be monsters, I am not disputing that. I just personally believe that most mothers love their children and wouldn't hurt them. If I believe any different I wouldn't be able to get up in the morning. Thanks for taking the time to respond, it was a really interesting point of view. I don't mind reading essays 🙂
 
^^

Sorry if I came off a bit intense. It can be useful to compare notes sometimes. I knew plenty of kids from terrible foster homes and once assumed they were all bad, but online I met a couple grateful for the foster homes they were put into who were surprised that I was cynical of them. But then it makes sense: kids in good foster homes probably aren't going to be going around telling everyone they're a foster kid, will probably meet other foster kids who are also being helped, nor are they going to runaway from their foster home, whereas I met foster kids as a runaway myself, so I only met those from bad ones. I know that there are some terrible foster homes out there (and that kids sometimes get put into them for terrible reasons, just as others are left to rot when the state SHOULD take them), but I have no idea how many terrible ones and great ones there are ('course being genuinely well-meaning doesn't necessarily mean they'll do the right thing, or that even if they do that it will make much of a difference in the long run).

I also mixed a lot with kids from other dysfunctional homes, and that makes sense as well: we understood each other a lot better. Perhaps more importantly, we made some kids uncomfortable if they couldn't relate or were frightened, and I know some parents wouldn't let their kids mix with us as they didn't want their own kids "exposed" to that. This puts their kids into a bubble while leaving us in ours. I also recall that we didn't trust adults who said they were there to help us, figuring they were out to betray us, silence us, or otherwise find a way to make us disappear. While I do think that was true of some of them, in retrospect I see that some of them honestly had no way of understanding us, and they often assumed wrong things about us just as we did them, and I'm sure their colleagues validated their views to them just as me and my peers did with each other so that it was one big misunderstanding both ways. There are some things about society and human nature that I'm still trying to figure out.
 
@thrasherpix I genuinely thought that "savages" song was going to be the one from Disney's Pocahontas and could've been used to show hostilities between demons and the slayer. Slightly disappointed that it wasn't. 😛
 
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