Was Joyce too hard?

I think Joyce's reaction was completely understandable. The two were both being unfair towards each other. Buffy wasn't explaining enough and just expected her mom to accept this sudden burst of information and Joyce was obviously more than a little confused. Despite how harsh her comment sounded, it's obvious she regretted it. As soon as Buffy leaves, there's a cut to Joyce holding her head in her hands, so as some people were saying, she was trying her last resort to get info out of her daughter, but at the same time keep her safe.

Regardless of what Joyce said, I do think Buffy would have left, anyway. If I had to kill the love of my life to save the world, I'd want to get far far away from everyone too.
 
You know, since you bring up them BOTH, I should add that BUFFY was wrong too. Granted, she WAS in a rush but there could have been more bargaining or explaining or promising to explain right after this one thing.
And instead of running off, she SHOULD have gone back home and at least TRIED to explain a bit more before just deciding she had to leave. It was a stupid teenage thing to do.
Stupid teenagers
 
Joyce was being stupid, she just seen Buffy kill a vamp, and she still comes out with 'i just dont accept that' when she's told Buffys a Vampire Slayer. Buffy couldnt explain properly, Joyce was having none of it, no matter what Buffy said, Joyce wouldnt have taken it seriously.
 
She wasn't too hard on Buffy. It's not as if Joyce was actually going to kick her out... it was a thread and a way for her to try and push discipline onto Buffy!

They both had things going on, and both had all these feels that were caught up, and things just got out of hand!
 
Joyce's reaction was completely logical and reasonable; it was the reaction that any loving mother would have. I think the reason for her daring to kick Buffy out of the house was fear -- the fear of losing Buffy. The whole time that Buffy had been patrolling at night, killing vampires, and fighting demons, she did it by sneaking out of her room window and lying to Joyce about her whereabouts (for a good and understandable reason though). So I don't think Joyce was too hard on her when she finally found out in the end, she was just trying to be protective of her.
 
Well to Joyce it was as if everything she'd ever believed in had been completly turned on its head. She always struck me as someone who didn't believe in anything supernatural and then to find out that your daughter is proclaiming to be some kind of evil killer... I think she reacted as any parent would've tbh.
 
I think that it is hard for anyone to think about what they would do in this situation. Granted that I do think that Joyce's reaction wasn't the best but imagine your flesh and blood telling you that there are vampires and that she has to slay them. "If you walk out that door..." maybe not the best approach but the only Joyce knew.
At the same time, Buffy telling her mom to wake up and see all the things that have been going on, Joyce doesn't know about demons and such, and in the moment Buffy should have realized that.
 
I think she reacted like any mother would. I mean, that is a huge revelation to have thrown on you & she really did have so much thrown at her in such a short amount of time. But she realized her mistakes afterwards. It definetly brought them even closer in the end.
 
As Blake said: She reacted like a mother... I rest my case....with beer... again
 
pernilleborup said:
As Blake said: She reacted like a mother... I rest my case....with beer... again
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I agree... She might have been a little too harsh on Buffy, but as a parent, I've come to realize there are always going to be little moments that happen and later you look back and know you should have handled it differently. Hell, sometimes even when you're in the moment you think "I shouldn't be getting so crazy on him/her", but in the heat of the moment things are said and done that can have some really bad consequences. I didn't hate Joyce for reacting the way she did. It was sad, 'cause as a fan I had hoped she would have handled it better, but you know, no drama = bad TV. LOL
 
However when parents it should not say "if you walk out of this house don't even think about coming back " because afterwards the other will feel that him it means and it really leaves.
 
I agree that Joyce was being a concerned parent, and though I think she handled it badly, I can't imagine many moms who wouldn't have handled it badly. Still, this scene really bothers me, and I think I've pinpointed why. No, it's not because I'm an 18-year-old female with no children. It's because Joyce was entirely clueless for the 2+ years Buffy was a Slayer prior to this argument. She didn't notice a thing even though all the evidence was laid before her. As Buffy said, there was even blood in her clothes that Joyce had to wash out. That's something you ask your daughter about, or at least mention in passing. You don't pretend it's not there. And, beyond that, how many times did Buffy sneak out of the house? Basically every night for 2+ years, and her mom didn't notice? And c'mon, it's not like Buffy was always being particularly stealthy about it either. Half the time she thundered out of her window. Sometimes it seemed like Joyce was actually GIVING HER PERMISSION to sneak out. I can't remember what episode it was, but Joyce said something like, "I'm going to go eat dinner. You can stay up here and sulk if you want, I won't bother you, but if you want to come down and eat that's okay too." In that moment it's as if she knows Buffy is going to leave anyway and is actually condoning it, whether or not that was her intention. Beyond that, how many stakes, crosses, bottles of holy water, etc etc were always laying casually around Buffy's room, hanging out of half-closed drawers and whatnot? Granted, a lot of it was well-hidden, but a lot of it was not. I don't know about anyone else, but that's something I'd ask my kid about too. After a divorce, and moving to a new town..isn't that the time you should pay particular attention to your kid? Yet Joyce remains utterly clueless. It really upsets me. It's the same thing as a parent not noticing their child is into heavy drugs, or depressed, or something like that. Then suddenly the cat's out of the bag and she's all consumed in the concern parent role, and I'm supposed to sympathize with her? Buffy is supposed to sympathize with her? I have no doubt she was genuinely concerned, but where was all this concern before?
She reacted a mother in that moment, yes. And her harshness is forgivable because of that. But the years of neglect and ignorance before this scene...I just don't know if I can say the same for that.
 
I don't think Joyce was too hard on Buffy. I admit the whole "don't come back" thing was pretty harsh but I think she assumed that Buffy wouldn't walk out the door after that threat. =P You think she'd know better than that.

I was surprised at how quickly she believed Buffy though.
 
No, it's not because I'm an 18-year-old female with no children. It's because Joyce was entirely clueless for the 2+ years Buffy was a Slayer prior to this argument. She didn't notice a thing even though all the evidence was laid before her. As Buffy said, there was even blood in her clothes that Joyce had to wash out. That's something you ask your daughter about, or at least mention in passing. You don't pretend it's not there. And, beyond that, how many times did Buffy sneak out of the house? Basically every night for 2+ years, and her mom didn't notice? And c'mon, it's not like Buffy was always being particularly stealthy about it either. Half the time she thundered out of her window. Sometimes it seemed like Joyce was actually GIVING HER PERMISSION to sneak out. I can't remember what episode it was, but Joyce said something like, "I'm going to go eat dinner. You can stay up here and sulk if you want, I won't bother you, but if you want to come down and eat that's okay too." In that moment it's as if she knows Buffy is going to leave anyway and is actually condoning it, whether or not that was her intention. Beyond that, how many stakes, crosses, bottles of holy water, etc etc were always laying casually around Buffy's room, hanging out of half-closed drawers and whatnot? Granted, a lot of it was well-hidden, but a lot of it was not. I don't know about anyone else, but that's something I'd ask my kid about too. After a divorce, and moving to a new town..isn't that the time you should pay particular attention to your kid? Yet Joyce remains utterly clueless. It really upsets me. It's the same thing as a parent not noticing their child is into heavy drugs, or depressed, or something like that. Then suddenly the cat's out of the bag and she's all consumed in the concern parent role, and I'm supposed to sympathize with her? Buffy is supposed to sympathize with her? I have no doubt she was genuinely concerned, but where was all this concern before?
She reacted a mother in that moment, yes. And her harshness is forgivable because of that. But the years of neglect and ignorance before this scene...I just don't know if I can say the same for that.
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Now bare in mind, I'm up real early for traveling so my response may be entirely babbled and slightly incoherent at points with many typos, so bare with me. Haha.

My general opinion was that Joyce was never entirely clueless to Buffy's erm, hobbies, and thus absent of parental concern for those two years (three if we count pre-show). I mean my Mom was completely clueless about some of things I was doing and what was going on in my life, but it didn't mean she wasn't concerned if I told her, that the concern wasn't already there- she was just waiting for when I was ready to share it with her, you know? I think with Joyce it was a mixture of healthy parental denial (the teen privacy policy that all parents and their children have in some area), not wanting to ask until Buffy was ready to tell her and an aspect of herself that really didn't want to tell Buffy off and wanted to let Buffy carry on with what she was doing (Admittedly she probably just thought the same as Cordelia at most and that Buffy was in a gang but still)- because, as you said in The Harvest she inadvertently lets Buffy sneak out. But in that same episode and scene she has a real problem telling Buffy 'No' and says she's been listening to tapes to tell her that she has to start saying no to things Buffy wants to do. But her uncomfortability and awkwardness saying such a word, implies that not allowing Buffy to go out and have fun or whatever isn't really what Joyce wants to say. And if we consider the glimpse of her teendom that we got from Band Candy- and the fact that math-wise you can figure she had Buffy young- she was barely out of college- it makes sense that she, perhaps subconsciously wants Buffy to have the fun and freedom that she only got a small time at.
Yet, as we slowly move on from that first episode (where Joyce is basically only just starting being both parents for the first time) we see a relaxation in her parenting skills in that she knows when to let Buffy out but she's more comfortable forbidding her to do so. And you get the feeling that in season 2 she really does try to get Buffy to open up to her- an attempt to break through the agreed denial on both sides (she expresses her frustration about Buffy never sharing when she's talking to Hank in the season 2 premier and in the same episode she asked Buffy if there was a point in asking her out right what was wrong and what was going on but Buffy's silent reply basically says that she would never tell her anyway ["Course not- it would take all the fun out of guessing"]. And she gets frustrated in Passion when she discovers Buffy had sex with someone she hadn't even bothered to tell Joyce she was dating- she's not even sharing the 'smaller' things with her. And then in Becoming, even after she's seen everything and is serious confusion land in need of explaination, Buffy still refuses to talk to her. Instead saying "Just have another drink" (Which okay, in any context is NOT something you should ever tell anyone to say because the results will always be apocolyptic) So this 'cluelessness' is just as much Buffy's fault for refusing to share as it is for Joyce deciding not to ask (well not too often anyway as, like I said, she starts trying to find out more in season 2). And Joyce's words of "I am tired of 'I don't have time or 'you wouldn't understand" suggests that she's inquired and asked about curious situations and Buffy in general many times off screen. And each time Buffy hasn't shared (Admittedly this probably due to Giles' theme of 'you mustn't tell anyone; it will endanger them' which I never got because hello, isn't knowledge power? Maybe if they kept clueing Joyce in on stuff she'd stop randomly arguing with evil schitzophrenic vampires on her doorstep. Just sayin'.)

And on your last sentence- yes there was ignorance involved- but I think neglect is a little strong a word! Haha.
 
I don't think so. Coming from her viewpoint, I may have said some even worse things to Buffy, were she my daughter. I guess you have to step into her shoes and think about it.
 
The "don't come back" comment was still incredibly stupid. And it's always made me dislike Joyce a little that she tried to blame Giles a few months later for Buffy running off. YOU told her not to come back! Don't put it on someone else.
 
I
InsaneMystic
100% agreement
Although finding out about Slayers and that her daughter is one, would be a shock to Joyce, and hard to deal with, I would have thought she might get some kind of relief. She finally knows why Buffy was getting into trouble and that the things that have happened were beyond Buffy's control. I'd have thought she would be a teeny bit relieved her daughter isn't just a trouble maker.
 
Flannen said:
Although finding out about Slayers and that her daughter is one, would be a shock to Joyce, and hard to deal with, I would have thought she might get some kind of relief. She finally knows why Buffy was getting into trouble and that the things that have happened were beyond Buffy's control. I'd have thought she would be a teeny bit relieved her daughter isn't just a trouble maker.
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Not to mention
finding out that Buffy had not been delusional/paranoid the few years ago (referring to her clinical stint in "Normal Again" -
I'm pretty sure the retcon hadn't been conceived of at the time of "Becoming", but still!)
 
I don't think Joyce was being too hard on Buffy. I think she reacted like any mother would react. She just found out that her daughter is a vampire slayer. When she says she's going out to be with her friends, She's actually in grave yards sticking stakes through the hearts of the undead. I can see how Joyce would over-react over something so shocking. She doesn't know what to say. She's trying to protect Buffy. She doesn't want her going out and getting hurt. Not only that but it's hard for her to process the fact that vampires even exist. Nevermind the fact that her daughter is the chosen one.

I'm just glad that Joyce learns to accept Buffy for who she is later on down the road. It's refreshing.
 
L
Lou
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