Was Joyce too hard?

As an added thought to what Zombierella just said.....

She also didn't really KNOW all together if Buffy might be just NUTSO. I mean, sure, she knew a little bit of it was true, but this whole "I'm the Chosen, the one girl in every generation, blah, blah, blah" there was no actual proof that any of that was actually true. I mean, here are her friends also running about slaying demons and things that go bump in the night too.
I think I nice stern Putting Her Foot Down was in order to make SURE that if there was any chance that this wasn't some stupid thing her high school kid was doing but didn't HAVE to. Sure, Buffy TOLD her that she HAD to, but I remember there being lots of things in high school that I thought I "HAD" to do. Some, I'm sure I would have told my parents that the world might end with fire raining from the sky if I DIDN'T do. 😀
 
Well, that is true.
Although, I think there are two kinds of parents that do that.
The ones that MEAN it and the kids know it, which takes years more of mean things and abuse. Then there are the parents that do that out of desperation and the kids KNOW their parents love them and that if things get bad enough they can go back. And eventually come to realize that their parents said it because they had their best interest in mind.
 
Well, in the first case: Good riddance. Some people shouldn't have become parents in the first case, and the sooner their children can manage to free themselvs from the parents, the better. In your second scenario, the parent really needs to say (and be!) sorry to the child, and be willing and able to spend time rebuilding the relation. To send your child away like that is a breach of trust, no matter how desperate and passionate you are in the heat of the moment.
 
L
Lou
True
I
InsaneMystic
very well put... and the sorryness is where Joyce failed MISERABLY.
InsaneMystic
very well put... and the sorryness is where Joyce failed MISERABLY.
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It seems to me that quite a few parents believe that we somehow belittle ourselves if we excuse our behavior to our children. My feelings are excactly the opposite: I think that we are setting a good excample for our children when they see that we are willing to aknowledge our mistakes and learn from them. Nobody is perfect. Why should we pretend to be, just because we happen to be parents?
 
I am a teenager and I think that Joyc was quite hard on Buffy but when Joyce told her not to come back I think she expected Buffy just to stay. I think it was good that she left because it showed Joyce that this was something she had to do and gave Joyce the space to think about what was going on. If she hadn't been given this time to think then she might not have realised that her daughter was important to her even if she did have to fight monsters.:: vampire
 
She didn't know that her daughter was a slayer.
Of course she was going to be hard.
 
I found it harsh and think that the phrase "don't even think about coming back", should never be used unless you really mean it. Joyce proved that she didnt mean it when she had the nerve to be mad at Buffy for running away. Overall, I like Joyce as a character, but she got on my nerves when she was mad at Buffy. I was thinking "you told her to never come back! What did you expect?" Xander, Willow, Giles and the rest of the scoobies had more of a right to be mad at her than Joyce did. None of them told her to leave, she just abandon them because she thought they would be safer without her.
 
Tasha said:
it was a bit harsh when she said don't bother coming back.
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All mothers do that because they care.
They don't want their son or daughter running away from home.
My mother would do the same.
 
Joyce wasn't too hard, but she was a complete moron in becoming 2. She's just so unreasonable. She called Buffys bluff telling her not to come back but it failed miserably. I mean Joyce has just witnessed Buffy staking a vamp right in front of her very eyes, and whats her response when Buffy tries to explain? ''well i just dont accept that'' pfft, grow up Joyce. Joyce acted totally wrong.

---------- Post added at 03:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:03 AM ----------

Buffy had no choice but to leave as there was no talking to someone like Joyce. And tbh Joyce was quite pathetic in s3 too, when Buffy returned. DMP of course and in band candy? When Buffy mentions she wants a car(nothing wrong with that) but Joyce saying 'oh no buffy i just dont want you driving its too soon' implying she doesn't want Buffy to have that kind of freedom. Typical moronic Joyce. 🙂
 
joshuaunderwood said:
All mothers do that because they care.
They don't want their son or daughter running away from home.
My mother would do the same.
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I wouldn't say that "all" mothers tell their children to leave and not come back. I wouldn't say that at all.
Joyce acted more like a child than a mother in this scene. I have no doubt that she cares about Buffy, she was freaked by the Slayer thing, etc etc...but still. I don't think that excuses her for letting her emotions get the better of her. Buffy was 17 years old, but she acts more maturely here than her mother in a lot of ways.
 
Forget "Did Joyce overreact or was she acting appropriately" ... I'm amazed she reacted as well as she did. You have to take yourself out of the Buffyverse, because that's not the reality Joyce knows ... up until Becoming 2, Joyce lived in a world essentially the same as ours, where vampires and demons are just the stuff of movies.

So you lives in the normal world, and then all of a sudden your daughter shows up with this guy in a leather jacket, gets attacked by a big freakin' monster, stabs him with a stake and makes him crumble into dust ... by this point, you're probably questioning her own sanity. Then your daughter is sitting in your living room with this guy named Spike, negotiating the terms under which Spike will help her kill someone. Then when you try to regain some semblance of control over the situation, your daughter says "Mom, have another drink." Then she starts talking about how she has to go save the world. So either you're having a psychotic break, or she is ... or possibly both. When you try to stop her from leaving, she shoves you into the kitchen counter.

She didn't just not overreact; she showed better presence of mind than a lot of people would.
 
OKay..
Being in Joyces shoes I don't think that she over reacted.
There was a lot going on that night, Kendra died and the police came looking for Buffy at her house, at that time they thought Buffy had killed Kendra and put Willow in the hospital, and Joyce had no idea where Buffy was or what was going on.
So when she gets home from trying to find Buffy, and sees her and some random bleech haired guy walking up to the house, she was getting ready to ask what was going on.
Then a vampire jumps out from out of the bushes and then Spike and Buffy slay it right in front of Joyce.
She had no time to dijest what she had seen and what Buffy was telling her.
The timing was horrible, it would have been nice if Buffy could explain everything and take the time, but she couldn't.
She needed to save the world.. again.
Even if Buffy could tell her everything Joyce is still her mother, and she wouldn't like the idea in the first place, it would be a tough pill to swallow.
Plus, lets not forget that Joyce was drinking.

Buffy's point of view:
She must have felt so torn, she loves her mother so much, and she hated having to keep it from her in the first place.
I'm sure if she were to ever tell Joyce she was the Slayer she would have planned it better than that.
Buffy had a job to do, and a limited time to do it, she was faced with a decision not a very promising one, but if she hadn't of gone then she would have never gotten the chance to explain it to Joyce because the world would have been sucked into Hell.
I think that if Buffy hadn't of had to kill Angel the way she had then she would have went home and talked things out, but she had gotten kicked out of school, her mom kicked her out and she killed the love of her life.
She needed to escape.
 
kate1013 said:
OKay..
Being in Joyces shoes I don't think that she over reacted.
There was a lot going on that night, Kendra died and the police came looking for Buffy at her house, at that time they thought Buffy had killed Kendra and put Willow in the hospital, and Joyce had no idea where Buffy was or what was going on.
So when she gets home from trying to find Buffy, and sees her and some random bleech haired guy walking up to the house, she was getting ready to ask what was going on.
Then a vampire jumps out from out of the bushes and then Spike and Buffy slay it right in front of Joyce.
She had no time to dijest what she had seen and what Buffy was telling her.
The timing was horrible, it would have been nice if Buffy could explain everything and take the time, but she couldn't.
She needed to save the world.. again.
Even if Buffy could tell her everything Joyce is still her mother, and she wouldn't like the idea in the first place, it would be a tough pill to swallow.
Plus, lets not forget that Joyce was drinking.

Buffy's point of view:
She must have felt so torn, she loves her mother so much, and she hated having to keep it from her in the first place.
I'm sure if she were to ever tell Joyce she was the Slayer she would have planned it better than that.
Buffy had a job to do, and a limited time to do it, she was faced with a decision not a very promising one, but if she hadn't of gone then she would have never gotten the chance to explain it to Joyce because the world would have been sucked into Hell.
I think that if Buffy hadn't of had to kill Angel the way she had then she would have went home and talked things out, but she had gotten kicked out of school, her mom kicked her out and she killed the love of her life.
She needed to escape.
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Totally agree of what you said, she could of at least took the time to explain everything was ok bla bla, but the whole was about to end.
 
Yeah, she acted a bit rough towards Buffy. She saw a vampire get dusted, she was told that her daughter was the Slayer....

If Joyce was flipping out, or thinking that Buffy was crazy, the last thing that should happen was "if you walk out that don't, don't come back". Real nice--kick out your daughter, who for all you know is crazy? Stepping back from Joyce's POV though I still think it was too much of a negative reaction, and anyways I always hated the few times when Joyce would ask Buffy, "could you try not being a Slayer?" as if it was a choice. Especially when Buffy told her otherwise. Coping mechanism or not, it was rough. They were probably trying to think of how a real mom in that situation would act, but it didn't feel right when watching it; it didn't feel right that Joyce would have that reaction. Where was the loving, understanding mom?
 
tkts said:
She didn't just not overreact; she showed better presence of mind than a lot of people would.
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The ability to show better presence of mind than a lot of people would doesn't make her right, though. I have a hard time making good excuses for presenting ultimatums that involve telling someone you love to never come back.
 
^ Yep. I have a hard time making excuses for Joyce, too. Not because she handled the situation itself badly (she did, but I can't think of many parents who wouldn't), but because of MANY situations previous and following that she handled badly.

Telling Buffy not to come back is just the tip of the iceberg, in my opinion.

There was also nearly three years prior to this incident that Joyce, somehow, did not notice that her daughter was a vampire slayer. C'mon, we've all seen Buffy sneak out her window..she practically THUNDERS out. Blood on her clothes, strange items in her room, odd behavior...hey, hanging out with the creepy librarian alone would have made me question a few things. But Joyce remained oblivious to all of this.

Also, this:
Plus, lets not forget that Joyce was drinking.
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does not excuse a thing, in my book. She chose to have a drink in that moment. That is entirely on her.

So then the fight happens, and then when Buffy comes back in S3, Joyce has the audacity to say (and I'm going off memory here, so forgive me if it's not word-for-word):
"Mom's not perfect, OK? But that doesn't mean you can punish me by running away."

She doesn't take a moment, the whole time Buffy was gone, to think that maybe Buffy was going through something huge. Something life-changing. That Buffy had this huge responsibility, and maybe something terrible happened to her that made her leave. No, to Joyce, this is all about her. And it's infuriating. If I were Buffy, I probably would have left again, right then, and not go back.
 
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