Was she lying?

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phoenixrising

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Was watching 'Chosen' the other day (again!) and paid close attention to the scene where Buffy tells Spike she loves him.

Buffy: 'I love you.'
Spike: 'No you don't. But thanks for saying it.'

Do you think she was lying?

I don't. Watch Buffy's face when she says it; she means it. By the time of 'Chosen', Buffy had seen how far Spike had come and how noble he was (would the pre-soul Spike have admitted he was terrified about the night they spent together?). He became a hero in the end and that was what Buffy loved and she only realized/could admit it at the very end.
 
She wasn't lying, but it's a matter of how much she loved him. Spike has a way of seeing through what people say. Spike was about to die and she did develop feelings for him so she was saying her last words to him, then Spike said no you don't, like he meant 'not with your whole heart' like with the riley thing. But he appreciates that she cared enough to say it. It's all subjective. Even Joss leaves it open ended.
 
I actually just watched the commentary for Chosen last night and from what Joss said it seemed like he meant for her to really love him. But that doesn't mean she was IN love with him...
 
I agree, I think perhaps on one level she loved him, but not perhaps in the way he would of liked. Maybe she wanted to love him and could see herself perhaps one day loving him but for now wanted to let Spike die with the knowledge she loved him, even if it was false.

Of course she wasn't to know he would become the sarcastic Casper of W&H.
 
R
Randy Giles
Are you Ashley from the Veronica Mars boards?
She was not lying she loved him and in love him. he didnt beleive her other wise because thats the only way to get him to Angel.
Otherwise if he did there would be no reason to keep them apart.
 
she wasn't in love with him, so in that sense she was lying. as for "loving him", that i agree about completely with everything cordelia, xander and cookiedough said. she loved him on a certain level, she has managed to develop feelings for him, and he was dying, she felt she owned him that much (probably could be phrased better, that last part) and he appreciated that. but it was not the kind of love she felt for angel (the riley example was a suitable one in this case). i think in the end of the day it was just good that it ended with both of them knowing their place.
 
I also watched the "Chosen" commentary, and the actors were supposed to play it as if Buffy did love him.

I'm not saying that she was head over heels in love, as I normally would. I was reevaluating it in my mind, and I think that the episodes leading up to Chosen was making her start to fall in love with him... if he would have lived and BtVS would have continued as a show, I think their relationship would have developed beyond and they would have been in love with each other. They had moved past their lust for each other and were beginning a new kind of relationship.
 
i agree that they were moving towards something better and more real, but in a sense i'm glad that it ended when and where it did. it was made clear that buffy saw angel in her future which means that in the end if she ended up with someone (which would never happen on screen) it would be him. so even if spike and her worked for a while, it would eventually end. so i think it was good it ended as early as it did.
 
Wicca said:
she wasn't in love with him, so in that sense she was lying.
Click to expand...

But you can still tell a guy that you love him, i've done it and had it done to me, I know he loves me but we're not in love. So if she said she loved him and did, but just wasn't in love with him (like is discussed above) then thats not lying. It just depends on how its interpreted by the other person, and that part is really out of her hands.
 
But seriously to hear that someone loves you, but isn't IN love with you is just a big of a slap in the face as it is to tell the person you're dating you "just want to be friends"
 
I didn't say it wasn't. This is gonna sound stupid but I had forgotten parts of their relationship towards the end, hence the way my post was worded. I have never been a fan of Buffy/Spike thats why my interest waned during those scenes.
 
See I like their relationship in S7. I think it was more honest and real than what she had with Angel. But that's just my opinion and I don't want to get into Bangel vs. Spuffy again!
 
I would love to say "YES!" since I'm a Bangler and all.

But I think she did love him. To a certain extent of course.

Spike seemed to be the wrong guy at the right moment, meaning though he may have not been her ideal match, he was there at the perfect time -- when she needed him.

I think we saw hints of her potentially loving him in Season 5, especially the infamous kiss where she pretended to be the Buffybot and in "The Gift". And Season 6 had the boinking and all. But she ended up just using him and it ended on bad note.

At the end of Season 7 I would probably say that Buffy DID love him. Although honestly, it seems more like a fling to me. And she did get over him pretty quickly.

So Buffy=loves/loved Spike, but on what level? A friendship level or a romantic level.

Then with the addition of Angel into this equation you have the whole thing where you can love more than one person in your life, but there will probably be that one that you love just a little more...
 
Buffy did love Spike - and not just as a friend. Both Angel and Spike were under the misconception that the type of love Buffy wanted, was the same she had with Angel back in her high school days. Angel would have jumped at the chance to relive those years. Spike would have jumped at the chance to experience that kind of love with Buffy.

But Buffy no longer wanted that all-consuming, overtly passionate love that she had with Angel during her high-school years. She made that clear to Spike in S6's "Entropy" or "Seeing Red". I think it was the latter. Oh, she still loved Angel and would probably always will. But she wanted a more stable relationship - to share love with a companion who understood her. The kind of love that lasts. And in the end, she had achieved that with Spike in late S7. She even tried to convey to Spike that she was in love with him in "End of Days", but Spike was too busy trying to pretend that the only thing she felt was friendship. Spike enjoyed it, as well. But he was too blinded by his own insecurity to realize that Buffy had fallen in love with him.
 
C
Cordelia
well said...
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drtroy
[No message]
buffy would always want the kind of love that is passionate and consuming, the kind of love she had with angel. because that's the kind of woman she is - normal does not work for her, been there, done that. the only thing that change over time is that buffy isn't a high school girl anymore, she is a woman now and while buffy has always been mature for her age, when a girl grows into a woman, her ideal of love changes. but the basics remain the same. and as far as angel is concerned, he understood her, he understood her very well, and their love that you seem to think didn't last, lasted through seven years, during which we were annually reminded of how much that love and the passion that came with it didn't fade away even a little bit. so that always will be what buffy wants. and it was made very clear, by her of all, that it was angel that she saw in her future in the end of it all.
as far as spike is concerned, i never said she didn't love him (again the question is on what level), but she certainly was not *in* love with him. and like she said, she was still "cookie dough" and spike, i think was the companion that led her through her final stages of "cookie dough" and he was perfect for it because again, she did love him and there was closeness and understanding between them. but that was bound to end. so in my opinion, better now than later.
 
C
Cookie Dough
Good post.
I believe Buffy did love Spike. I think Spike believed her, but as someone else said, he knew she didn't love him the way he wanted her too or how she loved Angel. I'm a big Spuffy fan and I'm possitive that if we could have seen their relationship progress further that we would come to see Buffy in love with Spike and not just loving him. Buffy saw Spike change into a great man and he came to know her better than almost anyone else. So, Spike knew what she was saying and understood what her "I love you" meant. He knew she wasn't lying, she wasn't, but he also knew, that at that point in time, she didn't love him in the complete-whole-hearted way he would have preferred.
 
I don't think she was lying, but as someone said--she didn't love him the way he loved her. I was honestly ready to dope slap her when she was talking about cookie-dough Buffy to Angel. She does love Spike, but I fear she still loves Angel more.

Part of me understands why, him being her first love and all--but the other half of me is like "What is wrong with you," Spike would do anything for her, he's done everything for her and its still "Oh hey, Angel!"

Frustrates me beyond words :'(
 
it takes two in relationship in order for it to work, you can hardly say it's unfair of her to not love him after everything he did for her or considering how he loves her. you can't exactly control whom you fall in love with. angel was buffy's first love but he was also her soulmate and will be her last (it does not mean she (or he for that matter) couldn't or wouldn't have relationships in between).
 
Going with what Wicca said, being nice to someone won't make them fall in love with you. It doesn't work that way. No one really knows how it works but it's not all about who would make a good partner. It's about passion and feeling like you need someone and that part is something people don't have a choice in.
 
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postmortem
Good post ;)
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