Was she lying?

Eh, call me crazy but true love isn't about passion and what 'you' feel.
Thats just a selfish misconception, in my opinion anyway.

Most people think love is about finding the one that will complete them, and make them happy. Really, it is about giving those feelings to someone else, whatever the sacrifice. True love is not what you feel for someone, its 'how' you feel for them.
I know it sounds the same but it really isn't.

Think about someone you love, and think of what you'd sacrifice to be with them--sure, you'd be happy, but would they be? Think about what you'd sacrifice for them to be happy--if they really loved someone else, would you let them go?
It's a much different story--any one can love anyone, but to truly love someone is rare. (except in tv business, it seems 🙂)

Both Angel and Spike love Buffy very, very much, I'm not saying anything against that. And, who knows, maybe Angel is her soul mate, if you believe in that sort of stuff. But, one must also wonder how much of their love is due to the star-crossed factor. That element of their relationship definitely strengthens their need for each other--I mean if you cannot have something you only want it more, right?

Buffy, slayer or not, is still only human, and, after all they went through, they'd be crazy not to love each other. Not to mention, Buffy was still just a kid when she fell in love with him, and one's first love is never forgotten. Whatever way you look at it, Angel left town because he loved her, he didn't want her to hurt in the long run.

In the same sense, Spike died because he loved her.
He knew how much she loved Angel, and when she said "I love you," he knew it wasn't the way she loved Angel--or that he loved her. Nonetheless, the fact that she said it meant she was thinking it--had he lived they'd probably be together today. She did have feelings for him, they just weren't as strong as her feelings for Angel--and while he was lurking in the shadows, he learned this.

Anyway, as much as Spike wanted her love, he knew that, in her heart of hearts she still loved Angel. That is why I think he stayed. He could have easily (well, I don't know how easy it would have been with the sun and all,) climbed out and ran over to the bus, gone to Europe and been with her. Instead, he died.

I'll say it again, Spike and Angel both love her dearly. There is really no way to measure who loved her more--There isn't a thing either of them wouldn't do for her.

As for relationships, they don't just happen. Things happen, feelings change, voila--You either love someone, or you hate someone--and it increases/decreases over time and more changes. Whether it was meant to be or not has something to do with this, but if you never meet them and don't get to know them--well, it just doesn't happen.

As for who Buffy was meant to be with--all it really comes down to, is who the viewer likes more.

For me, that is Spike.

--
Wow I need a life, so much for a quick reply
 
D
drtroy
post of the year!
well i disagree with some of what you said and agree with some. about your perception of love, some is true but some, it seems, you're talking from a personal experience and since my personal experience was (it appears) different, my outlook is much brighter.
about the last part... you really should rewatch "chosen" and see that whom buffy belongs with and whom she will end up up with has been answered on screen and it's really not down to viewer's choice. obviously, judging by your post, that's not your choice, but it is what it is.
 
Yes, Buffy will probably end up with Angel, I realize this--but that doesn't mean I have to like it. LOL. They will always love eachother, but Spike will always love Buffy too, even if they are never together, that doesn't mean she doesn't love him back. I also think it was more implied than said.

Don't forget what Andrew said in "Damage".
"You work for Wolfram & Hart. Don't fool yourself... we're not on the same side."

Honestly, all we really know is that Angel, Spike, Gun and Illyria are left facing an entire army of evil--I'm personally waiting for all the slayers to show up, to cancel their forces, but until a movie or something is made, all we have to go on is our own conclusions..

I really hated that ending btw, I was crying with the whole Wes thing :Cry:
 
you mean that buffy would end up with angel? no, that one was said.
as for andrew - a lot of what he said was debatable. it certainly didn't come from buffy because we know buffy was not even there. the most logical reason is that giles told him to say that because he knew these are the very buttons you could push with angel.
about nfa... sorry can't relate lol. reason for it is that it had almost no effect on me with the exception of very few scenes. "angel" for me wasn never "buffy", didn't touch me nearly on the same level, so...
 
i really don't think you could. in "chosen", during the famous "cookie talk". that talk was a clear refrence to the same talk they were having in "bad eggs" five years before about the fact they only saw each other in their future "five years from now".
"chosen" came to show us that was still true - they still saw each other in their future, not anyone else.
from "bad eggs":
Angel: So you don't think about the future?
Buffy: No.
Angel: Never?
Buffy: No.
Angel: You really don't care what happens a year from now? Five years from now?
Buffy: Angel, when I look into the future, all I see is you. All I want is you.
Angel: I know the feeling.

from "chosen":
Buffy: Because - OK, I'm cookie dough. I'm not done baking. I'm not finished becoming whoever the hell it is I'm gonna turn out to be. I make it through this, and the next thing, and the next thing, and maybe one day I turn around and realize I'm ready. I'm cookies. And then, you know, if I want someone to eat- or enjoy warm, delicious cookie me, then...that's fine. That'll be then. When I'm done.
Angel: Any thoughts on who might enjoy - Do I have to go with the cookie analogy?
Buffy: I'm not really thinking that far ahead. That's kind of the point.
Angel: I'll go start working on the second front. Make sure I don't have to use it.
Buffy: Angel. I do... sometimes think that far ahead.
Angel: Sometimes is something.
Buffy: Be a long time coming. Years, if ever.
Angel: I ain't getting any older.

let's put it this way, this one of the things you can't argue with even if you're not a b/a shipper.
 
Okay, you got me. But for all us spuffers, we have to hold on to the fact that nothing is certain, and things change 😉
 
(I'm late, missed the whole debating thing, damn, hehe...)

Ok, my opinion and what I believe when it comes to this might not be exactly the same... But here's my opinion..

I never liked Buffy and Angel together, but I have started to like how their love developed... From them falling in love in season 1, to what they have in the later seasons... In my opinion they stoped being in love after IWRY. Sure, they still have those kind of feelings left, they will probably always have in some ways.. But in my opinion they realized they could not be together, and because of that their love changed, and became more like friendship-love, than lover-love, ehh.. And that's the way she feels about Angel in season 7 even if she, in her mind, of course had thoughts of a life with Angel and those things...
In my opinion Buffy wasn't in love with Spike in season 7. She did love him, very much, and she had many different feelings for him but I don't think she wanted a relationship with him. I can't picture the two of them in a real relationship (as much as I'd want to)...
So, no, Buffy didn't lie, she did love Spike, and right now I think she had more feelings for him than for Angel.. although it's impossible to compare Buffy's feelings for Angel and her feelings for Spike... The relationships are just so different...
 
lol ahm... yeah i'd agree except that if there is one thing you can't *ever* say about buffy and angel is that their feelings towards each other so much as come close to platonic friendship.
 
well, for starters get a life. which in some cases more than others would be a problem 😉
 
well when you do, never hesitate to let me know where because odds are mine is there too.
 
Hehe, well, not saying platonic friendship between Buffy and Angel but.. un-platonic? Naah, I don't want that. I mean, I know they'll always have "real" feeling for eachother I just thought they'd accepted the fact that they'll "only" remain friends.

Hehe, well, I have no life so, lol.. I'm glad I have BtVS. (But you're right, I had way more life before I found BB.. hm..)
 
I think I get you.
They will always love each other, but reality is that they aren't able to be close--it has nothing to do with the curse, and the soul--that kinda stuff its just both their lives are too hectic--neither one of them was really meant to have a relationship. They'll always be there for eachother, but they cannot be together--ah, great. I lost my brain now--does that make any sense?
 
Yeah, it makes sense cause that's sort of what I was trying to say.. They should know, deep down or whatever, that they cannot be together. Just like they know they will always love eachother, and always have eachother...
 
I think she loved Spike. And that moment when they looked at eachother i had always been mad that we never saw what happened. Then i watch the commontary and Joss said the viewer could chose what would happen. I wanted them to make love...not like before when it was just about lust. I DO think that Buffy will always care about Angel even though i am big spuffy fan, but its over. Joss said that Buffy would always love Angel but Spike was the one in her life.
 
W
Wicca
rewatch "chosen". then a few other episodes.
C
Cordelia
Yup that's what Joss said...I like the openendedness of the situation.
Wicca said:
buffy would always want the kind of love that is passionate and consuming, the kind of love she had with angel. because that's the kind of woman she is - normal does not work for her, been there, done that. the only thing that change over time is that buffy isn't a high school girl anymore, she is a woman now and while buffy has always been mature for her age, when a girl grows into a woman, her ideal of love changes. but the basics remain the same. and as far as angel is concerned, he understood her, he understood her very well, and their love that you seem to think didn't last, lasted through seven years, during which we were annually reminded of how much that love and the passion that came with it didn't fade away even a little bit. so that always will be what buffy wants. and it was made very clear, by her of all, that it was angel that she saw in her future in the end of it all.
as far as spike is concerned, i never said she didn't love him (again the question is on what level), but she certainly was not *in* love with him. and like she said, she was still "cookie dough" and spike, i think was the companion that led her through her final stages of "cookie dough" and he was perfect for it because again, she did love him and there was closeness and understanding between them. but that was bound to end. so in my opinion, better now than later.
Click to expand...


From "Seeing Red":


SPIKE
Trust is for old marrieds, Buffy.
Great love is wild and passionate and
dangerous. It burns and consumes.

BUFFY
Until there's nothing left. That
kind of love doesn't last.
Click to expand...

That's tells me that Buffy no longer wanted the wild and passionate love she had harbored toward Angel, as a teenager.


Buffy's relationship with Spike probably could have lasted a little longer if he had survived the events of "Chosen". However, I don't know if it would have lasted for years or until either's death. I doubt it. But her relationship with Angel had ended years ago. The love that Buffy and Angel had shared all those years ago was the kind that doesn't last. Buffy will probably always view Angel as her first love. And she will probably always view Spike as her other vampire love - but as the one that had managed to mature over a period of time. But that doesn't mean she will end up with either vampire. Maybe she'll find someone else to grow old with.


Someone stated that Giles had probably instructed Andrew to tell Angel that Buffy was in love with Spike. Why would Giles do that? Andrew's trip to L.A. had caused enough damage. And didn't Angel and Spike pay a surprise visit? And why would Andrew - who was a witness to Buffy and Spike's relationship - follow such instructions?
 
C
Cordelia
Good find!
S
Spuffy57
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