Was Spike influenced?

[Carrrrgh]

Before Spike was turned he was a sweet man. After he was turned he transformed into some insane killing machine. Now this is normal when a human turns into a vampire but I personally think in Spikes case he retained a lot more of his old self than usual vampires do, which allowed him to become the hero he always wanted to be.

Now my question here is do you think that if Spike had been turned by a different group of vampires, a more civilized clan (assuming they're out there) would he still have become William the Bloody? The insanity of Drusilla, the pure evil of Angelus and Darla surely must have influenced his killing ways. Do you think Spike shaped himself and became a monster because it was his nature, or do you think his environment nurtured him to become evil?

 

[Chosen Enemy]

No, I think he wouldn't have. Angelus was his mentor. We saw the change when he meets him and he tells him they're gonna be best friends. From their first meeting Angelus starts mentoring him and influencing him. He showed him the world of killing and vampire terrorism. We can see that before he met Angelus he was still very William-y.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

I definitly think it was both.

Considering that he wasn't as evil as Angelus, maybe his demon was simply less evil. I don't have a source, but I think Scott Allie might have said that when a human is turned, a demon enters their body from another universe. Up until then, I assumed there wasn't actually a seperate demon in vampires. But there seems to be. So I guess the demon might decide how evil vampires become. Or William was simply kinder than Liam.

So partly his demon nature, influenced by remains of his soul lingering or maybe chemicals in William's brain making the demon unable to be trully evil. And partly, Angelus, Darla and Drusilla. If he had meet and feel in love with someone less evil, and lived with less evil vampires, he might not have gotten as evil.

But we also need to consider that he probably never even wanted to be stepped on again, like when he was alive. That might have driven him considerbly. He wanted to be seen as a bad guy, to be evil. Like he said to Angel in Angel season 5, he never really cared about the victims and their suffering, like Angelus did, he was just in it for the ride.

If he had lived a happy life, and been turned by moderately evil vampires who sometimes did evil things, but not just because they wanted to be evil, he proably would still kill, maybe rape and torture, but not to the same degree.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

The question of whether a vampire is evil because a demon inhabits their body /or/ because their conscience is removed and replaced with a lust for blood is forever going to bother me!
However, I do think that Angelus et al. influenced Spike and encouraged him to do more evil things as part of the group.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

The question of whether a vampire is evil because a demon inhabits their body /or/ because their conscience is removed and replaced with a lust for blood is forever going to bother me!
.

I kind of compare it to drugs. I'm no expert, but people on drugs seem to lose part of their conscience, and a new substance is added, effecting the brain as well. You get angry, and your conscience goes away. In a way you're the same person, with something new added and something old removed. Now replace the drug with the demon, and that's how I see it.

 

[brinkster130]

I think when Spike was turned into a vampire and the demon took over he turned into a monster. Personally, I don't think he retained enough of William when he was turned to have become a "civilized" vampire or a hero on him own. Having Angelus to look up to and Drusilla to impress certainly influenced how vicious and sadistic he became.

 

[dexeded]

The question of whether a vampire is evil because a demon inhabits their body /or/ because their conscience is removed and replaced with a lust for blood is forever going to bother me!

Yeah, it bothers me too. I personally believe that it's more of the latter--that their conscience is removed and replaced by a lust for blood, and violent tendencies. The Council's spouting all that demon moving in bullshit. No doubt there's some kind of demon within them, but the Council's doctrine seems to indicate that Spike is not William at all, merely the demon that moved in with William's memories. And I don't think that's true.

 

[Cast No Shadow]

I think that the demon took over, but he did definitely retain a lot of his old self, however as he had been so scorned in his previous "life", and had no power to do anything about it, he felt like he had something to prove and something to live up to.

He entered a group where all people were of the same class, and he proved himself to be one of the best, something he never could achieve while being from a lower class as a human.

I think he wanted to be good at something, and didn't really mind what that something was, but he did enjoy it too, as being a vampire, he is inherently evil.

 

[NY State of Mind]

He always had a hunger to be acknowledged so I see him going crazy no matter what

 

[Carrrrgh]

He always had a hunger to be acknowledged so I see him going crazy no matter what

i agree. i think spike was always longing for attention and he would he would do anything to be accepted. Fitting in with Angel and the rest of the gang was the easiest way for him to feel both accepted and powerful.