Was Spike just a fan service?

[Puffy]

Becoming a scooby (in season 5) and Buffys boy toy (in season 6/7).

Also Spuffy overall.

What do you think?

 

[brinkster130]

Yes, initially at least. That's pretty much been confirmed by the writers; right?

But after they knew he would be sticking around I think they put some effort into his story so that it would make sense having him around.

I also don't think it's a necessarily a bad thing, writers and creators want the show to be successful and sometimes that means going with what works; and in this case it was giving the fans more of a popular character.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Spike was extremely popular with the audience (his popularity prevented him from being killed off in "What's my line? part 2") and they had to have a reason for why Buffy didn't just stake him so Spike was integrated into the scoobies.

 

[Professor Walsh]

Yep. He was too cool to let go, so they worked him back into the fabric of the show. As much as I am a softie who's still capable of tearing up at the "every night I save you"-speech and the "I've seen the best and worst of you", I wish they had made him into a big bad on his own instead. (For the record, I am so easily touched that it's embarassing - you should have seen me showing my music-and-dance interested kiddo the final dance of "Dirty Dancing". *insert blushing emoticon here* )

 

[Klaus Kartoffel]

Spike the character (not Scooby or in Spuffy) remained because of his popularity. He was supposed to get killed in What's My Line. That's what I've read and heard at least. I didn't follow the online fandom or press when she show was first aired. However, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I wouldn't call him a Scooby until S10 though.

Was Spuffy on fan demand? I really don't know. What I've heard is that he was initially integrated into the main cast to compensate the loss of Cordelia as a snarky opponent for Buffy. Moreover, they toyed with several storylines in S04 (Spillow, gay Xander, Xander in the Initiative, season-long Oz/Veruca affair, Walsh the Big Bad not Adam etc.) and they didn't really know what to do with Spike until S05. I also heard that SMG proposed Spuffy to Whedon but he rejected it at first. Another rumor is that Something Blue was a Spuffy test drive, to look how fans would take it.

Showing off his abs that often in S6/7 was probably fan service though. 😀

 

[GoSpuffy]

I saw or read an interview of Joss re Spike quite awhile back. In it he said when Spike came back to do Lovers Walk in S3 he realized he really wanted him back as a regular due to his chemistry with the cast and how he knocked the show out of the park with that episode and he asked the writers to find away to bring him back.

 

[Athena]

I think he was fan service in a way, but the team knew they were onto a winner immediately with the character, mainly due to James Marsters. Had it not been James playing the guy, I doubt we would have seen much of him again.

I'm very glad we saw much of him, I have to say 😉

Athena's mind. Meet the gutter! 😀

 

[cryptwarmer]

If creating a character that is wildly popular with fans and then increasing that character's screen time is fan service...then yes!

And he's still serving us all these years later! Go Spike! Go James! Go Go Gadget!

I think the show needed a character like Spike, he kept me watching when I would otherwise have turned it off. He was eye candy but he also served a purpose in the cast, and appealed to many fans who wanted someone fun to identify with. I like lots of the characters but they just weren't as much fun, and fun is what kept me watching.

Without fans, there is no show. I appreciated that particular bone being thrown my way.

Athena! you WOULD think that was what I was referring to! (meet me in the gutter in 20 minutes and let's watch some spuffy!)

 

[VisionBoy]

Well there was definitely a bit of contrivance in order to keep him around. Rewatching recently, the amount of times Spike openly threatens to kill Buffy and gets up in her face, it seems kind of ridiculous that she let him walk, chip or no chip.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Well there was definitely a bit of contrivance in order to keep him around. Rewatching recently, the amount of times Spike openly threatens to kill Buffy and gets up in her face, it seems kind of ridiculous that she let him walk, chip or no chip.

Buffy was probably amused by the fact that Spike would talk the big talk but knew that he couldn't harm anyone human.

 

[VisionBoy]

I can buy that to a point, but when he's actively trying to get the chip removed so he can murder her and her friends... and then becomes obsessed and starts stalking her... I just find it a bit of a stretch. Of course he eventually starts to help her, but there's a big space of time where Buffy really doesn't seem to have any incentive to be putting up with his threats. He got away with a pretty ridiculous amount of stuff.

He's not alone though, I feel the same about Harmony for example.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

I can buy that to a point, but when he's actively trying to get the chip removed so he can murder her and her friends... and then becomes obsessed and starts stalking her... I just find it a bit of a stretch. Of course he eventually starts to help her, but there's a big space of time where Buffy really doesn't seem to have any incentive to be putting up with his threats. He got away with a pretty ridiculous amount of stuff.

He's not alone though, I feel the same about Harmony for example.

True, though you can't really fault Spike for wanting the chip out of his head.

 

[white avenger]

Was Spike just a fan service? Yes and no. Yes, because his popularity with the fans was a definite asset to the show. It's quite common with TV series for an initially minor character to catch the fans' attention and have their role expanded. Some earlier examples are Ed (Kookie) Byrnes in "77 Sunset Strip," Henry (Fonzie) Winkler in "Happy Days," and the immortal Leonard (Spock) Nimoy from "Star Trek," to name just a few. No, because Spike wasn't "just" a fan service. No matter how well the writers worked the character into the script, if James Marsters wasn't a genuinely talented actor, if he and Sarah hadn't worked so well together, and if he was less of a professional that he actually was, he would have been written out of the story line, or just relegated to occasional appearances.

Whether you like the character or not, he is an integral part of the show, who has legitimately earned his place there. Also, Spike has probably the single most filled out, and, to many people, most interesting character arcs in the entire Buffyverse. I don't think that he could have come this far as simply fan service.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

@cryptwarmer Agreed. The chip was just a plot device so Spike wouldn't try to kill Buffy. I preferred soul-free, chip-free Spike too. I wish they'd brought back Drusilla and given her the chip instead. It would give Spike a reason not to go after Buffy (in case she took advantage of Drusilla's inability to harm), it would continue to show his caring side (The thing in season 2 that separated him from disposable bad guy), it would've prevented Spuffy (but Something Blue could've still happened) and we could've gotten lots of Sprusilla goodness! It would just show how far Spike would go to protect Dru.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

@GoSpuffy I'm currently trying to work on one. It's going to start with "The harsh light of day" but with a few changes then sort of develop into an AU from there which gives me a bit more freedom than trying to follow the series to the letter. At the minute, I'm writing down general dialogue such as:

Buffy: My mother has a more active social life than I do. What does that say about me?

Giles: That you are dedicated to your cause and have no time for such frivolities.

and

Buffy: Maybe I’m the problem? Maybe there’s something wrong with me?

Willow: What? No! There’s nothing wrong with you, and you’re not a problem, you’re Buffy! You never know, the next guy to walk through that door could be the perfect guy for you.

(Xander walks in)

Buffy: Or maybe not.

 

[Puffy]

thx @ all. 🙂

A lot of great and interesting feedback.

 

[thrasherpix]

Season 5 feels different to me than 6 & 7. In the latter seasons, definitely. I hesitate to say "just fan service" but I'm leaning to that.

But season 5 seems to me that he was more than that. That said, I have to agree with the one who said that Buffy should've staked him after Spike went to such lengths to get his chip out and nearly getting Riley killed in the process, but then hormones and bad boys don't affect my judgment to the same degree (ETA: that is, I think Spike was spared only because of the fans).

 

[RomanticSoul]

Another rumor is that Something Blue was a Spuffy test drive, to look how fans would take it.

It was meant as a smack down on the idea actually. The audience didn't really connect with Riley and Angel was gone so they were hungry for another slayer/vamp relationship. So 'Something Blue' was basically 'look how stupid this would be'. Unfortunatly it backfired largely due to the fact that Blucas was such a spud and had no chemistry with SMG so the episode actually had the opposite effect.

Spike was extremely popular with the audience (his popularity prevented him from being killed off in "What's my line? part 2")

Online Spike was popular, still is. Back then show runners still sadly made the mistake of taking online opinions as the gospel truth for the majority. But it must be noted that Spike doesn't sell, period. The later Seasons of Buffy (very Spike centric) had worse ratings than reruns, the over promotin of him in Ats S5 didn't bring in as many viewers as the WB had hoped. The same is repeated with the comics. Angel: ATF comics outsould Spike: ATF by huge numbers and other Spike centric comics tanked as well. He migh be beloved in the hardcore online fandom but that's such a small part of the whole audience.

The later Seasons were all about fan service. And if they weren't about that the writers used it as their playground for their issues or whacky worldview. Dawn (stand in for the audience) becomes a Spike fangirl, ditching her previous crush on Xander for the mass murderer. Buffy/Spike up to and including the attempted rape is Marti Noxon's life story. Buffy being such a bitca in S7 was Whedon's payback for his SMG issues. Willow's sudden change in storyline in S6 was entirely because Alyson wanted it changed. On and on it goes.

With Spike in particular the producers/writers wanted him back so they gave him the Cordelia role (what Anya wasn't enough?) but Marsters wasn't really into that. At one point Marsters himself started talking about Spike going over to AtS because his stuff on Buffy wasn't that great. So Spike spends the first half of S5 being shoehorned (same like in S4 really but whatever) into episodes and it just doesn't fit, see Buffy vs Dracula as a perfect example. Then they came up with the 'he has a wet dream about someone and decides he's in love' storyline while simultaniously the excuses for him not being staked made less and less sense. Sadly for him to remain on the show unstaked the Scoobies had to swallow the moron pill, but that's what happens when writers start to play favorites. And of course all the nakedness was nothing but pure fanservice.

 

[Icarium]

Online Spike was popular, still is. Back then show runners still sadly made the mistake of taking online opinions as the gospel truth for the majority. But it must be noted that Spike doesn't sell, period. The later Seasons of Buffy (very Spike centric) had worse ratings than reruns, the over promotin of him in Ats S5 didn't bring in as many viewers as the WB had hoped.

That's because the stupid viewers couldn't appreciate the high art of those seasons, the depth of the character of Spike in particular. Damn, I almost managed to finish this sentence without laughing out loud.

Kidding aside, of course it was pandering. Even if one manages to delude themselves into thinking Buffy would fall for the guy who tried to kill her and her friends so many times and was still pining for his days of killing people for fun or that Spike is stupid enough to stick around and taunt the Scoobies for years, knowing he is helpless due to the chip, the idea that neither Riley, nor the Watcher's Council would so much as pay lip service to the idea of trying to kill him is preposterous. They might as well have had James wear a shirt on which it said "I have plot armour."

 

[Guy]

Well, if Spike was fan-service, it was the kind of fan-service that BtVS always did, from the beginning. It's like when Angel returned after his season 2 death, just because he was popular. Or when Faith got a much expanded role (she was originally planned to be killed in season 3) because she was popular. Writers listen to their audience, and sometimes change their plans accordingly. I dont mind it, as long as it makes for good stories. And in Spike's case, it did, IMO.

It's the same with plot armor - yes, Spike should have died as early as 'Halloween', realistically, but realism was never this show's strong point. Xander and Willow should have also been killed long ago, in some random patrol, if we were being realistic. But this isn't a realistic show.

Does it make sense that Buffy could tell Spike she loves him in season 7, after the attempted rape? Of course not. But it also doesn't make sense that Buffy could look at Angel's face with anything but hate, after season 2. Still, the character was written that way, because it worked as part of the story, and because it made for a better show. Realism and logic aren't everything, in storytelling.