Was Tara Abusing Willow in Passive-Agressive Ways?

[Wildfly]

Sometimes it is harder or means more to constantly be there for people in ways that don't involve superpowers or actions. I am sure there are times when Tara has battled along side the Scoobies, but it was clear than her powers was never as advanced as Willow's. Just things like being there for Dawn when the others either weren't or couldn't is a big help because it allows them to more easily focus on the battle.

Yes, i remember something from season 6 when both Willow and Buffy were out and Dawn guilt-tripped Tara to stay for the night (so she could met Willow) but all in all i got the impression that Tara thought Dawn was Buffy's and Willow's responsibility, though she stayed friends with her and with Buffy.

 

[Mr Trick]

Yes, i remember something from season 6 when both Willow and Buffy were out and Dawn guilt-tripped Tara to stay for the night (so she could met Willow) but all in all i got the impression that Tara thought Dawn was Buffy's and Willow's responsibility, though she stayed friends with her and with Buffy.

Well I don't know where you got that impression from, but of course she was more Buffy's responsibility because she was the one with emotional ties to Dawn. Expecting Tara to be there all the time would have been too much.

 

[Wildfly]

No, she asks Tara who the Key is, and Tara refuses to answer. She tortures Tara, brakes her hand and Tara still refuses to give her Dawn's name. Glory only brain sucks her when she realizes she's not going to get anything from her.

That's nice of her then. She is not a bad person, only selfish, her main focus is herself and then Willow. I don't think she'd actually betray anyone though. More like let others do the heroic work and rescue.

 

[Lyri]

You have a horrible, horrible impression of Tara. So horrible in fact that I'm starting to wonder if we even watched the same show. How you can say that it's 'nice' of Tara to allow herself to be tortured and lose her mind to protect Dawn, but still say she's selfish. I honestly don't understand.

This discussion is actually starting to make me mad, your view of Tara is appalling. I'm done with this conversation.

 

[Blaze]

@Wildfly "She wasnt there at all after they split with Willow."

But she was. What about that scene where she and Dawn are out having a milkshake. Clearly Tara was still in Dawn's life.

Just because Tara doesn't have powers and therefore can't contribute on the same level as the others, doesn't make her selfish. What about all those hours spent researching. What about helping with the spell to bring Buffy back. What about being the only one there for Buffy in s6. Tara did plenty of actions that showed she cared for the other and thought about them. She dedicated the last three years of her life fighting alongside the gang, and heck maybe she did it because she loved Willow, but she did it nonetheless. Someone that cared only about themselves would have ran for the hills as soon as their life was in danger. Even when she is no longer with Willow, she is still around, she still comes by the Summer's house, we see her exiting the magic shop shortly after breaking up with Willow. She's still thinking of them. To me, Tara has always thought of others before herself, to the point where people were walking all over her. It's only in s6 that she starts standing up for herself. I think you mistake her shy personality and her insecurities for selfishness, when to me it's quite the opposite.

 

[Wildfly]

@Wildfly "She wasnt there at all after they split with Willow."

But she was. What about that scene where she and Dawn are out having a milkshake. Clearly Tara was still in Dawn's life.

Just because Tara doesn't have powers and therefore can't contribute on the same level as the others, doesn't make her selfish. What about all those hours spent researching. What about helping with the spell to bring Buffy back. What about being the only one there for Buffy in s6. Tara did plenty of actions that showed she cared for the other and thought about them. She dedicated the last three years of her life fighting alongside the gang, and heck maybe she did it because she loved Willow, but she did it nonetheless. Someone that cared only about themselves would have ran for the hills as soon as their life was in danger. Even when she is no longer with Willow, she is still around, she still comes by the Summer's house, we see her exiting the magic shop shortly after breaking up with Willow. She's still thinking of them. To me, Tara has always thought of others before herself, to the point where people were walking all over her. It's only in s6 that she starts standing up for herself. I think you mistake her shy personality and her insecurities for selfishness, when to me it's quite the opposite.

I really don't want to sound like her mother-in-law, but Tara is not good enough for Willow. Talented Willow who decided to stay out of (was it Harvard or the MIT?) to help Buffy in Sunnhell and got corrupted by magic partly because everyone depended on her. Did you recognize that when Buffy is out of order, they all wait for Will to make the decisions. And when i say depend on her, i mean constantly asking her to do her thing to save them. Willow is smart, Willow is strong, Willow will know what to do. But if she messes up, they all blame her, even Tara. "Willow uses too much magic". lol. Guess why. Maybe, just maybe she doesn't have super strength but super msgic
And the solution? Willow, stop using so much magic, else i dont think we would work.

For the thousandth time: Yes.Tara.is.nice. yes, she is a good listener. she loves to be appreciated and she is helpful. Yes, she went out with Dawn for milkshake and They Talked. Yes, she probably misses them all, as the only ones who treated her like family and she is lonely without the band.
She still left Dawn with 1. An addict (Will) 2. a girl with mental breakdown-depression (Buffy) because it was the right thing for Tara. And it really was. Again, that's why i think Kennedy would do much better. She would face Willow and tell exactly what she thinks about mind-f%%%ing her and she'd try to solve things: help and protect Will, even if she has no idea about magic, even risking her life. She'd do her best. I dont see her leaving and waiting for others to sort out things.

So yes, maybe Willow was arrogant, full of hubris and then completely flew off her rocker and abused poor nice Tara, who just tried to be very helpfully telling her that she used too much magic.
But maybe, just maybe they all used and depended on her to use her magic till it overwhelmed her, then some of them blamed her for it then gazed her from moral high ground and victimhood.

 

[weaker slayer]

The only person that was abusing Tara was Tara herself. And, the only one that was abusing Willow when she was interacting with Tara was Willow herself. Both women were in my judgment very passive with each other, in a way: I could not really tell who was the dominate woman and who was the passive woman in their relationship.

True, if they did not use their witchcraft powers on each other, and had a normal female on female fight: I would have made the choice Tara would have won the fight. Tara was just a little taller then Willow. Tara also had a wider chest that gave her great lung and upper body strength. I think Willow is a 32 chest but I have to say Tara was around a 38 or 40. Still again, they had little interested in fighting each other. If they did, I give Tara the advantage.

True, Willow and Tara were both passive aggressive with others all the time. Still, they were just two weak when it came to being the leader of each other.

 

[Blaze]

Still, they were just two weak when it came to being the leader of each other.

Isn't that a good thing though? Were speaking of a relationship, neither should be superior to the other. We don't need a dominant one and a passive one, in a relationship the two parties should be equal.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

We don't need a dominant one and a passive one, in a relationship the two parties should be equal.

You will never have two equal partners in anything; beit marriage or business. Sure, it's romantic to think 'we are equal' but it's simply not true. One person needs to lead and the other follow. The situation is fluid and can change from one setting to the next, but I think it's short-sighted to say everyone should be equal.

 

[Blaze]

You will never have two equal partners in anything; beit marriage or business. Sure, it's romantic to think 'we are equal' but it's simply not true. One person needs to lead and the other follow. The situation is fluid and can change from one setting to the next, but I think it's short-sighted to say everyone should be equal.

You're mistaken, my mother is myopic, I on my end have a 20/20 vision (sorry I couldn't help it). I gotta say I disagree. In relationships, and not just romantic ones, you don't always needs a leader and a follower. Sure, some situation may ask for it. Like one person decides where to eat, or what activity to do, next time it might be the opposite. But relationships are about compromise too, and it's not in all situations that you will have someone taking the lead. I can think of many friendships that I have where we are set on equal footing, I wouldn't describe either of us as a leader or a follower. By definition if you are not equal, one of you is lesser than the other, and that doesn't sit well with me.

 

[Mr Trick]

You will never have two equal partners in anything; beit marriage or business. Sure, it's romantic to think 'we are equal' but it's simply not true. One person needs to lead and the other follow. The situation is fluid and can change from one setting to the next, but I think it's short-sighted to say everyone should be equal.

I think you just made a bit of a sweeping statement there. Of course its possible more so than ever. And I know an example of it, my best friend and her husband are perfectly equal. I don't even think its some romantic ideal, its just the way it should be.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Like one person decides where to eat, or what activity to do, next time it might be the opposite.

That's what I meant. You don't have to sit around and debate the best course of action for everything to make sure everyone feels equal. Sometimes you just gotta nut up and say this is what we're doing.

 

[Wildfly]

I could not really tell who was the dominate woman and who was the passive woman in their relationship.

Yes. After Family, what with her conflict resolved and becoming part of the scooby family, Tara became more confident and
was more or less Willow's equal in their affair, for the first time.

Theirs looked a pretty harmonious and balanced relationship to me, and i wonder whether it would stood the test of time in simple circumstances, without the big challenges Willow faced, after meeting Buffy.

They had common interests, studied together, did spells together
(It's a good thing Tara's abusive family appeared when they did, else Will would have a magic partner sabotaging all her spells involving demons, like the one they were supposed to work on together but Tara destroyed, the one with the magic sand.) That'd be hilarious, the scoobies trying to figure out why all Willow's demon detection spells and protective amulets went suddenly wonky. 😀

They'd probably decided together they'd move in and be Dawn's parents, with Tara & Buffyboot doing the household chores ("again, what pancake shapes, Dawn?" 'I wish she'd notice i am not 5 yo' and Willow doing software/hardware maintenance and strategical planning.

True, if they did not use their witchcraft powers on each other, and had a normal female on female fight: I would have made the choice Tara would have won the fight. Tara was just a little taller then Willow. Tara also had a wider chest that gave her great lung and upper body strength. I think Willow is a 32 chest but I have to say Tara was around a 38 or 40. Still again, they had little interested in fighting each other. If they did, I give Tara the advantage.

That is a very interesting remark. How the love affair would turned out without magic? I don't see them ever resort to violence, but i can see Willow altering or limiting access to crucial information, hiding things from her, and Tara being hurt by it. Willow isn't an average girl, and she would have used potentially dangerous tricks to help out Buffy and the scoobies. I think Tara would have left her anyway, and without Buffy's or Xander's help i am not sure if Will would have found the way back, so it's a good thing at the end the Buffy-Xander -Willow friendship proved to be strong then, much stronger than their respective affairs.

 

[Blaze]

That's what I meant. You don't have to sit around and debate the best course of action for everything to make sure everyone feels equal. Sometimes you just gotta nut up and say this is what we're doing.

But that's the same as being equal. Being equal doesn't mean you debate every single thing you do, it just means that you have an understanding of what the other person want, and a respect for that. Having one person being a follower all the time would mean that they never state their opinion, and that is problematic in a relationship. The problem I am talking about is when one person is constantly leading the other, always making decision, and not letting the other person be heard. It is possible to be equal while still taking decisions without debating it constantly. That doesn't mean that you are the leader of the follower.

 

[weaker slayer]

Theirs looked a pretty harmonious and balanced relationship to me, and i wonder whether it would stood the test of time in simple circumstances, without the big challenges Willow faced, after meeting Buffy.

They had common interests, studied together, did spells together
(It's a good thing Tara's abusive family appeared when they did, else Will would have a magic partner sabotaging all her spells involving demons, like the one they were supposed to work on together but Tara destroyed, the one with the magic sand.) That'd be hilarious, the scoobies trying to figure out why all Willow's demon detection spells and protective amulets went suddenly wonky. 😀

A balance relationships are the most boring when written within a book. And, a balanced relationships are just as boring in movies or within television. True, one faction can make a claim of one is stronger then the other. Still with a balanced relationships: it is a leap of faith with any side pointing out who is stronger. More so when it is a same sex relationships, as there are very little background information during that time and our current society norms too be debating what are the norms to be debated. Maybe, this is the reason why lesbians are more interested in debating lesbian relationships then say the establishment.

If dealing with a establishment writer with an establishment viewership debating the story: a balanced and harmonious relationship is called for.

That is a very interesting remark. How the love affair would turned out without magic? I don't see them ever resort to violence, but i can see Willow altering or limiting access to crucial information, hiding things from her, and Tara being hurt by it. Willow isn't an average girl, and she would have used potentially dangerous tricks to help out Buffy and the scoobies. I think Tara would have left her anyway, and without Buffy's or Xander's help i am not sure if Will would have found the way back, so it's a good thing at the end the Buffy-Xander -Willow friendship proved to be strong then, much stronger than their respective affairs.

Would have to say, before we really got to their lesbian relationship, Willow was very weak with sex. Tara could have been a stronger character, but was written to be just as weak and shy as Willow. More so at the start and became the equal with Willow just because they were written as lesbians. Still, if there was any conflict between the two women, I would still pick Tara. Then again, it is just a fantasy idea as it never was written into the story.

 

[Icarium]

Saying Tara behaving in a passive-aggressive way constituted abuse is an abuse of the word abuse. (Someone had to say it 🙂).

 

[Wildfly]

Saying Tara behaving in a passive-aggressive way constituted abuse is an abuse of the word abuse. (Someone had to say it 🙂).

When Tara had became a sacred cow? The question raised was legitimate and i think every character should be discussed and analysed, even the ones we like. Especially the ones we like 😛

 

[Blaze]

A balance relationships are the most boring when written within a book. And, a balanced relationships are just as boring in movies or within television. True, one faction can make a claim of one is stronger then the other. Still with a balanced relationships: it is a leap of faith with any side pointing out who is stronger. More so when it is a same sex relationships, as there are very little background information during that time and our current society norms too be debating what are the norms to be debated. Maybe, this is the reason why lesbians are more interested in debating lesbian relationships then say the establishment.

I disagree with this assessment of lesbian relationships. Although I'm confused about what you mean with the society norms and establishment? It sounds like it goes back to saying well you need that one girl to be the "man of the relationship", and one to be the woman, going back to traditional roles. That's exactly the opposite of what lesbian want portrayed in the media. What exactly constitutes of a balance relationship though? I am still confused as to what you mean with the wording.

When Tara had became a sacred cow? The question raised was legitimate and i think every character should be discussed and analysed, even the ones we like. Especially the ones we like 😛

It has nothing to do with Tara being a liked character. It has to do with the definition of the words used. Even if Tara was passive aggressive. To compare that to abuse? It's a little extreme.

 

[Wildfly]

Just Google 'passive-aggressive behaviour' and 'abuse'. You'll be surprised.

I remember this 70+ couple of pensioners living in a nursing home when i was a student. The wife never once raised her voice, all she did is to complain and guilt trip the husband.
The medical team had to separate them. He had a heart attack and upon investigation it appeared he couldn't even sleep with what's been going on and was really suffering from her passive-aggressive behaviour.

 

[Icarium]

It has nothing to do with Tara being a liked character. It has to do with the definition of the words used. Even if Tara was passive aggressive. To compare that to abuse? It's a little extreme.

Exactly.

Just Google 'passive-aggressive behaviour' and 'abuse'. You'll be surprised.

Just because other people are stretching the definition of the word abuse doesn't mean we have to follow their example.

I remember this 70+ couple of pensioners living in a nursing home when i was a student. The wife never once raised her voice, all she did is to complain and guilt trip the husband.
The medical team had to separate them.

And that's similar to Tara maybe, possibly, being passive-agressive on a handful of occasions over the course 40+ episodes how exactly?