Was this season good?
- Thread starter orpheusxi
- Start date
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
It gave plenty time for Angel and Connor to develop a relationship. Especially the relationship they had where they hated each other (or at least Connor hated Angel). After all, them not having time with each other was the point. Connor had been somewhere else his whole life and resented his dad for it. How much more time did they need to show that? ANd its not like it was the last season. There was another one after it, so in regards to where the characters were in the end, it wasnt the end.
As Al said, yes its good. But no, it wasnt the best of the 5.
As Al said, yes its good. But no, it wasnt the best of the 5.
E
Edmund Blackadder
email me - i have no meetings:)
apocalypse
Potential
Season four is one of best seasons, probably second only to season five. I don't really get why so many people hate it.
People "hate" season 4?!?!?!? I think it's the best of the lot, to be honest. I love the insanity of it and the continuous epic storyline that just keeps getting nuttier and nuttier. Though, that said, I am oddly fond of season 5.
To be honest, though I like the first couple of seasons, I don't "love" it in the way I do Buffy. It takes till about season 3 to really cohere IMHO. (Cough that opinion has nothing to do with Fred's arrival, honest guv'nor cough lol)
To be honest, though I like the first couple of seasons, I don't "love" it in the way I do Buffy. It takes till about season 3 to really cohere IMHO. (Cough that opinion has nothing to do with Fred's arrival, honest guv'nor cough lol)
I loved the fast-paced, thriller aspect of S4. The appearance of Faith and Willow added to the joy. Gwen also added much-needed colour to the drab setting.
The only thing that I hated was how Cordelia's character was treated. It doesn't matter to me that Jasmine was the one driving. I really resented seeing Cordelia butcher that poor girl in Inside Out, and killing Lilah. Did I have to see that? It was such a waste of a great character. But that's just me.
The only thing that I hated was how Cordelia's character was treated. It doesn't matter to me that Jasmine was the one driving. I really resented seeing Cordelia butcher that poor girl in Inside Out, and killing Lilah. Did I have to see that? It was such a waste of a great character. But that's just me.
Ok I'm going to be that awkward person and say I hated it! Theres a few reasons so I'll list them.
1. Connor...never liked him. I don't like the actor who plays him, he irratates me to no end and the character is just plan annoying. Most of the time I find myself wondering why the writers couldn't of just let Darla eat him!.
2. The oedipus inspired freak show that was Angel/Cordy/Connor...all I can do is ask why???
3. The Beast was boring in my opinion and that scene when Cory kisses him...*shudder*...its too weird! even for Angel!
4. Jasmine.GRRRR!!! I cannot express how much I dislike this arc it was so...ugh! I don't even have words!
5. But mainly it has to do with Cordy and what I see as the ruination of her character.
ok go ahead..flame me!
1. Connor...never liked him. I don't like the actor who plays him, he irratates me to no end and the character is just plan annoying. Most of the time I find myself wondering why the writers couldn't of just let Darla eat him!.
2. The oedipus inspired freak show that was Angel/Cordy/Connor...all I can do is ask why???
3. The Beast was boring in my opinion and that scene when Cory kisses him...*shudder*...its too weird! even for Angel!
4. Jasmine.GRRRR!!! I cannot express how much I dislike this arc it was so...ugh! I don't even have words!
5. But mainly it has to do with Cordy and what I see as the ruination of her character.
ok go ahead..flame me!
B
Blondie Bear
I hated it, too, and for basically the same reasons. You are not alone!
Joyce Summers
Mom of a Chocoholic
I do think it was such a shame about what happened to Cordy and how it ended up for her, but I also loved all the storylines at the same time. It was twist and turn worthy and I absolutely loved the scene where Willow is fighting off Cordy/Jasmine's majiks and Connor asks worriedly 'can she handle this?' and then Willow goes all witch-voo and Wes is like 'erm..yeah I think she can' hehe
But yeah, the Angel/Cordy/Connor thing- argH! Freaky incestyville. I mean it's like Angelus said 'she was like a mother to you. Huh. Screwing your Mom' he says something to that effect anyway. But yeah it is totally wiggy and gives me the not-so-pleasent variety of goosebumps. And I did miss Cordelia so much after what happened to her but I think Chaisma was just fab at playing the characte evil
But yeah, the Angel/Cordy/Connor thing- argH! Freaky incestyville. I mean it's like Angelus said 'she was like a mother to you. Huh. Screwing your Mom' he says something to that effect anyway. But yeah it is totally wiggy and gives me the not-so-pleasent variety of goosebumps. And I did miss Cordelia so much after what happened to her but I think Chaisma was just fab at playing the characte evil
Kean
hahaha freaky incestyville!!
I loved this season, mainly because what you said, the fast pace, one thing after another, never stopping.
The fact that Faith came back, we see Angelus, Wesley turns all different inside, Connor was...eh, okay when he wasn't near Cordy.
Cordy ... weird, but the ending to this whole little thing was Amazing!! this season had an tremendously well thought out story arc.
:cheering:
So yes, I liked this season.
Kana
Soulless human
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2007
- Messages
- 1,305
I really liked it. I loved the Jasmine, stroy because we have climax of a really scary villain and what we have not only one of the powers that Angel used to work for but someone who was trying to bring about world peace although through questionable means. I think that's much more interesting than the usual unambiguous bad.
I liked Connor too. There was so much more to him than "I hate my dad" and in any event he didn't totally hate him and the scene in Home was beautiful.
Wes/Faith/Angelus. Nummy goodness!!!!
I don't think Cordy's character was ruined because as I understand it, it wasn't her. Cordy's arc on Angel was really Seasons 1-3 and You're Welcome. And perhaps a few at the start of Season 4.
I liked Connor too. There was so much more to him than "I hate my dad" and in any event he didn't totally hate him and the scene in Home was beautiful.
Wes/Faith/Angelus. Nummy goodness!!!!
I don't think Cordy's character was ruined because as I understand it, it wasn't her. Cordy's arc on Angel was really Seasons 1-3 and You're Welcome. And perhaps a few at the start of Season 4.
G
GATEGOD
^_^ you need to be sorted! http://www.buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?p=461376#post461376
wiccianslayer
Vampire Diva
BlasterBoy606
Big Damn Hero
I disagree....immensely. 😛
It's my favorite season so I'll defend it!
RESPONDING TO YOUR POINTS:
1. Conner. Yes, many people hated him. But, he made a great use of Angel development. Angel wanted a child, and he got one, but it a screwed up way. This kid hated his life. It was needed for Angel to grow and become a different character, to be more than 1-dimensional.
2. Why? Because that was NOT Cordy. That was Jasmine trying to get Conner's trust. I admit, the Cordy/Conner sex scene was disgusting, but the rest you can see it was well planned.
3. The Beast? Boring? Have you seen "Apocalypse, Nowish", "Habeas Corpses", "Long Day's Journey", or "Salvage"? Imo, the Beast is anything but boring!
4. Jasmine brought a villain into the Jossverse that has never been shown there before and never will be seen again. Jasmine was a villain that wanted world peace, but was a liar and was willing to sacrifice thousands of lives. It brought up a lot of moral issues and, in a way, the gang really DID destroy world peace. Genius, imo.
5. But they didn't ruin Cordy's character. What would be ruining her character is if she was a spy sent to go to Sunnydale as a high school student and stayed undercover for ten years! Now, THAT would ruin her character. This wasn't Cordy. This was Jasmine, and they left her ready to come back and give a great big goodbye, and you can tell that did NOT destroy her character. My only thing about Cordy this season was that she did not come back in the next one. But, I guess that's a Season 5 issue.
DarklyDreamingDrusilla
Scooby
I am not going to flame you because I agree with pretty much all of your points. The only thing that I did not completely agree with was Connor. I liked the idea of his character and when he first came back he was pretty cool. I just did not like the whole Cordy/Connor thing EWWWWY! Anyways I totally agree I just did not like this season very much at all and I would have to say that my favorite was 5 but I also really loved 2 and 3. =)
TabulaRasa
Buffy Girl
I didn't find it that great. It's actually the one season where I ff thru a lot of the episodes. I just watch the odd parts I like...The Beast for instance.
Connor I have many issues with this character. The first one being the actor. Personally he annoys the **** out of me and it aggravated me having to watch him. Secondly I think having Connor come back all grown up in season 3 was a really poor move and in some ways lazy. I think there was a hell of alot more to develope with Angel actually raising his son than having some petulent child sulk for two seasons. I think we would have seen MORE growth from Angel if he had actually been given the chance to be a parent. Honestly I don't see much of any growth with Angel's character after Connor comes back.
Cordy I absolutely adore her character and I think we needed her more to be Cordy in seasons 3 and 4 than to be the big bad, and personally at times I thought CC played it a little camp for my liking. I know it wasn't her, that she was under Jasmines control. Thats fine if the character is engaging and entertaining like Angelus but she wasn't she was boring and predictable and truthfully I expected more from the show.
The Beast His imaginative name says it all. Utterly dull as a villian and looked too ridiculous that he couldn't be taken seriously. Again I was left cold.
Jasmine A sci-fi favourite, build Utopia and watch it tear itself apart. I was bored, I knew what was going to happen which is fine if whats going on is interesting but it wasn't, it was predictable.
The Ickyness I'm not a prude by any stretch of the imagination but I just DID NOT WANT TO SEE CORDY AND CONNOR GETTING PELVIC. Call me crazy but it just wasn't a must see moment for me. Oedipus has his own play, we didn't need the Cordy/Connor/Angel take on it.
Basically I was disappionted. I expected so much more from the series. I can't help that. I think they were capable of better, the only redeeming factors were Faith (thank God!!!) and Angelus, but even he was bellow par compared to Sunnydale and his stint in 'Eternity'. The one surprise moment for me was when they were offered W&H.
BlasterBoy606
Big Damn Hero
Back again 😛
But Angel getting what he wants, having the perfect son and raising him.....1. How is that Joss? and 2. How does that help him? It doesn't help him progress at all, him losing his kid does.
Cordy was interesting as a villain. imo, Charisma was not meant to play a villain here but she wasn't bad and she was only a villain for about 5 episodes, ya know.
The Beast has a lame name....yeah, so? That makes him dull? How so? You thought the epic battle in "Apocalypse, Nowish" was dull? What about the Wolfram and Hart massacre and beaten to death Faith? Boring? Dull? How so?
Jasmine has not been done many times before, I think. It's a thing you have in Angel and Buffy, you sympathize for the villains. You see what they mean. Glory's motive was just to get home! The Mayor was almost like a dad. Holtz just wanted revenge for the death of his family! You understand all these characters, as do I understand Jasmine. I think she just wanted to make everything good, but there really can't be perfect happiness unless people have no actions and are always happy, but not by what they want. It's true; humans are very flawed, and she saw this.
And do you like Season 5? If so, how can you if you're complaining about Cordy not being Cordy, cause she wasn't even in Season 5!
Cordelia Chase*
Spiley anyone?!
Everyone says they hate this and that about the season but i think thats what makes it great!!! It was unexpected. Out of the ordibary of what we are use too. I think it was great but not the best season....i personally love s3 & s5
anyatara
Scooby
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2007
- Messages
- 2,811
- Age
- 31
I like most of season 4, I just don't like the Connor/Cordy storyline (Pssh, Cordy *&&* Angel for life 😛) and Jasmine annoys me slightly, I mean sure, you need a villain, and she's a good one, I mean, her way of thinking was...new 😉 But, did no-one else find her slightly annoying..?
I never said anything about Angel raising the perfect son but I thought that if they went to the bother to give him a son in the first place that he as a character and us as the audience would have gotten more from it to see him raise him. I'm not saying it would have played out all sweet and nice cuz like you said it's Joss but I just didn't feel Connor brought anything productive to the show.
You say that Angel grew from what happened with Connor, how exactly?
I didn't find her interesting as a villian. Like I said she seemed camp to me and 5 eps is a long time in tv land. I just didn't like it.
The Beast was what the Judge would have been like if Buffy hadn't had a rocket launcher at the ready. He went on too long. After the second ep of his arc I was ready to move on.
The Utopian ideal has been done to death believe me. Maybe that's the problem I have with Jasmine, I hate what an utopian society means, no free will. To have to watch it on Angel was just too much for me. I'm a cynic, can't really help that.
I don't really care for season 5 too much. I like it better than 4 alright, when Cordy did come back she was fantastic, also Spike provided comic relief but agin not the show's best.
My fav season is 2 and I love season 1 too. I like 3 but wouldn't be crazy about it.
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
See we got that. It was condensed down into a few episodes but we got the doting father, we got the worried dad rushing son to hospital and the worry about money. What we didn't need is Angel turning into Little Hyperion on the Prairie.
Angel was given the son he always wanted and in turn that was taken from him only to be delivered back in the form of Stephen/Connor.
Connor got annoying but he made for an interesting character that made Angel question himself, his friends and his life.
Why you dogging on season 3 Cordy to start with?
She was the same girl just grown up.
As for season 4 - I loved her and at what point was she predictable?
She is cause of one of the greatest most twisted deaths in the show. I defy anyone to say they could have predicted Lilahs death.
Also the stuff with Connor - what?!?!
People people people please remember this wasn't Cordy.
This is exactly the same as blaming Angel for killing Jenny Calendar.
It was a great touch because it was so unsuspected and wrong and Angelus even comments on it being like Hamlet.
Which brings me to a big issue with this line
So let me ask you, was it just this storyline you hated or every single episode/storyline of Buffy and Angel that played on an already much told story?
If its the latter, why do you watch the show, if its the former don't complain about one aspect being used while others are copied numerous times too.
Fair play, you moved on. I know I didn't. I loved this character, and I actually love the name. Its perfect in its simplicity. Like other characters in the show he was exactly what he was supposed to be and the name shows that.
Some could argue that the Vampire story has been done to death, the Frankenstein story too, the guy who did wrong in his past seeking redemption its ALL been done before, alot doesn't mean its wrong to redo it from a different angle.
Also, I don't get your reasoning for hating the Jasmine/World peace arc.
The cynic in you must tell you that for world peace there has to be a price and some would have to consider if that price was worth paying now thats what happened here.
Angel and the group thought Utopias price was too high, so you hate it because it agrees with what you believe?
Season 4 is amazing, every step of the way. I understand that some people got bogged down by the continuing arc but me, I loved it.