Was Willow jumping the gun to break her ties to Amy?

[CordelliasHeart]

shes a childhood friend who got willow on a glorified drug.

BAD yes...

But I dont think thats unforgivable... when willow herself had casually done Tabula Rasa with the best of intentions...

Just a point...

 

[EVIL UU]

Nah. When somebody has a bad influence on you you should cut them out of your life. Childhood friends, family members, whatever, doesn't matter who they are. You have one life, why waste your time with people who are bad for you?

 

[Blaze]

Cutting ties with Amy is probably the best decision Willow ever took throughout the series. So, so often people just give chance after chance because the person is a dear friend, or a family member. Willow gave Amy a chance, and Amy messed it up; her fault, not Willow's.

And in the branch of addiction, the first thing any addict will be told (whether it's alcohol or heroine) is that you cannot be around the drug. Willow did the only thing that she could have done to help herself.

Not only that, but this gave Amy an opportunity to also change her life. It should have been a wake up call for her just as much as it was for Willow. But Amy didn't want to change.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

It's unforgivable when the other person doesn't see the problem. If Amy had stopped like Willow had it'd be different. But when Amy is giving her "gifts" of magic she is clearly not someone Will should be staying friends with just cuz she's a childhood friends.


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[Still a Scoobie]

You look at the way Amy is with magic, even from early seasons and even despite her mother's dabblings, it's obvious that she shouldn't be a part of your life, whoever you are, but especially if she's previously gotten you into some bad magic stuff in the past.

 

[CordelliasHeart]

Hey Buffy doesnt Cut ties to Cordellia just for begging her into going to a frat party, where they nearly get offered up as human sacrifices... THEN Saying "Why did I ever let you talk me into coming to this party!?" IN a brazen display of reality denial.

 

[Still a Scoobie]

That is a very different scenario.

 

[CordelliasHeart]

Why?

Both are illicit.

And Cordellia was blatantly using Buffy, to fit some Ratio.

Amy at least WANTED willow to enjoy herself at the magic drug dealership, even if she was misguided.

 

[Blaze]

I'm a bit baffled if you can't see the difference between Amy pressuring Willow to use magick vs Cordelia convincing Buffy to go to a party.

First off, convincing someone to go to a party is a free choice. Buffy could 100% say no and the decision was autonomous. Yes, there is the peer pressure aspect of it, but autonomy was still present. Autonomy is the biggest factor here when comparing the two situations.

Amy 1) Forced Willow to use magick. Willow had no say, Amy literally "gave" her magick and 2) A drug addict is often under influence when making decisions concerning drugs, making them not autonomous. Essentially this means that Willow was not in position to make certain decisions and Amy was not in position to force magick on Willow. Amy directly violated Willow. Cordelia did not violate Buffy.

I'm not saying that Amy is worst or better than Cordelia, Amy was just as much under the influence as Willow was, making her actions sort of understandable, even if they were wrong. But Willow was right to cut Amy from her life. It's not even about forgiving Amy or hating her or loving her or whatever else, it's about what was healthiest for Willow.

 

[Still a Scoobie]

Also, Cordelia didn't know the party was going to lead to that sort of trouble. Amy, on the other hand, has known pretty much forever that magic is dangerous.

 

[CordelliasHeart]

Cordellia may not have known about the Human sacrafices but probaly knew about the possibletys of groping, rape, and potentialy illegal drugs?

She flat out warned buffy to lie to her mom about where they were going, because "their will be drinking"

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Cordellia may not have known about the Human sacrafices but probaly knew about the possibletys of groping, rape, and potentialy illegal drugs?

She flat out warned buffy to lie to her mom about where they were going, because "their will be drinking"

They are worlds a part scenarios.

For that scenario to work, Cordelia would have to have spiked Buffys drink. Amy effectively spiked Willow with magic.

Buffy just went to a party.

 

[Still a Scoobie]

I'm curious, is this an "I love Amy and will not have her besmirched" thing or an "I hate Cordelia, she is at fault for all the ills of the world" thing?

 

[Blaze]

Cordellia may not have known about the Human sacrafices but probaly knew about the possibletys of groping, rape, and potentialy illegal drugs?

She flat out warned buffy to lie to her mom about where they were going, because "their will be drinking"

Haven't watched that epi in a while, but you mean that Cordelia actually did warn Buffy that there would be drinking. You can't really have anything closer to informed consent in this case then. Cordelia flat out told Buffy what might happen.

And about the possibilities of grope/rape, this would in no way be Cordy's fault, nor would it be Buffy's. People should be able to go anywhere they wish so, and I mean anywhere, without having to worry about being blamed of "looking" for rape (this include drinking, dressing provocatively etc). This rape culture is sickening, one should ever only blame the perpetrator. Yes, there is always a possibility of things happening at a party, but in no way would that be related to anything Cordy ever said.

 

[CordelliasHeart]

Uhmmmn... wanted to reply to your comment, but thought it would lead to a argument... lets jsut say I STRONGLY disagree about the "Rape culture" accusation.


And Its more a "I Feel sorry for Amy Her Mom was a bitch, she got lynched by a bunch of crazy fundamentalists... then her childhood friend disassociates from her because of a minor indiscretion"

 

[Still a Scoobie]

The time to feel sorry for Amy is in her first appearance, by the time of her second, she's shown what sort of person she is, bewitching her teachers etc. and by the time of Willow's cutting ties with her, she's done easily enough to deserve it.

 

[Blaze]

Uhmmmn... wanted to reply to your comment, but thought it would lead to a argument... lets jsut say I STRONGLY disagree about the "Rape culture" accusation.


And Its more a "I Feel sorry for Amy Her Mom was a bitch, she got lynched by a bunch of crazy fundamentalists... then her childhood friend disassociates from her because of a minor indiscretion"

Nothing wrong with a debate/discussion if someone brings good arguments and we remain polite. This is what the board is for!

As for Amy, I simply do not consider what she did as a minor indiscretion, she could have literally ruined Willow's life. So we'll just have to disagree on this point.

 

[Lyri]

I don't like Willow. In fact, I hate her a lot. But she did the right thing in cutting Amy out of her life. What Amy did to Willow is beyond unforgivable. Amy knew that Willow was trying to quit magic because it was so addicting and was ruining her life, and Amy shot her up with magic anyway, magic that wasn't hers and she couldn't control it. It could have gotten someone killed. It's the equivalent of a heroin addict deciding to quit and get her life back together and a 'friend' holding her down and shooting her up with pure heroin against her will. It's unforgivable.

And if you can't see how that is VASTLY different to what Cordelia asked Buffy to do, then I have no words for you. The difference here is consent. Buffy consented to go to the party and neither Buffy nor Cordelia could have foreseen what would happen to them. Willow never consented to being shot up with magic by Amy and Amy knew that. She also knew the consequences of her actions when she did it.

I DO think Amy had a rough life and she didn't deserve what her mother did to her. But she still CHOSE to delve into magic. She CHOSE to use her magic for selfish reasons. She CHOSE to turn herself into a rat when there was the possibility of no one being able to turn her back (yes, special circumstances, but still). She CHOSE to shoot Willow up with potentially lethal and deadly magic. She CHOSE to join the 'wicca' group and put that spell on Willow that nearly got a lot of people killed. She CHOSE to save Warren and join up with Twilight. She CHOSE to kill a lot of people.

Cordelia DID NOT choose for Buffy and herself to get drugged by the frat boys against their will. She DID NOT choose to be a sacrifice to a demon.

Amy made her choices and she's 100% responsible for everything that happened to her. Willow as also 100% right to cut her out of her life.

 

[Fuffy Baith]

From Willows perspective, it was the right thing to do. However, I liked the Amy character and wished she showed up more in seasons 6 and 7. Where was Amy when Willow went dark and tried to end the world. That would have been a interesting encounter. But it's clear that Amy is never going to change and will always use dark magic. And that's not what Willow needs to be around.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

It reminds me of what Eric Clapton said about booze and drugs. The only way to stay clean is to turn around and leave if they are around.

I consider addiction to be a disease only in the sense that you cannot take an alcoholic and turn him into a social drinker. He will either be an addict or completely abstain. The same with magic, which is why the Willow magic addiction arc is a bit unrealistic.