Was Xander right not to marry Anya?

[Blaze]

What are your opinion's on Xander's actions not to marry Anya. Not necessarily leaving her at the alter (obviously that was a jerk move and wrong), but what are your opinions on not marrying her in general (eg. even if he would have done it before the wedding). Was he right to leave, were his fears a good enough reason to leave? What about him wanted to get back with Anya after, was it a good idea to try and maintain a relationship after?

Or was Xander wrong to leave her considering he loved her. Anyone believe he would have been better off going through with the wedding?

 

[white avenger]

If I am any example, apprehension about sharing your life with someone else, the "forsaking all others" kind of lifelong commitment, is quite common. My wedding day was, for me, far more frightening than anything else that I had ever done. And I honestly think that, if that weren't the case, the marriage wouldn't have been such a constantly renewing joy each and every single day thereafter. Sharing your life with someone who you love above all others is both the most challenging and fulfilling thing that a human being can experience. If the simple appearance of a demon whose admitted mission was to destroy Anya's happiness by whatever manner possible, and seeing what was almost certainly a distorted version of their future life together, if not a total lie, was enough to frighten him away from the alter, then he didn't deserve the chance for happiness that their marriage offered him. I lost all respect for Xander because of that.

The thing about Season 7 that I disliked the most was Xander and Anya's "friends with benefits" relationship. She was far too good for him.

So, I said all that to say this. Yes, Xander was right not to marry Anya, because he would never, on his best day, be worthy of her.

 

[Robb Stark]

This one is tough for me. I like Xander (for the most part) and I strongly dislike Anya. However, the way Xander went about it was, as [MENTION=8404]Blaze[/MENTION] so aptly put it, a dick move.

In general? I'm glad they didn't get married. In opposition to [MENTION=6758]white avenger[/MENTION], I didn't think Anya was in Xander's league, in any way. I thought how he went about breaking things off with her was very wrong, but her lasting reaction to him leaving her proved, to me at least (and I'm fully aware some others see things differently), that he made the right decision on the whole. And yes, I'm aware of the innate contradiction in that statement.

I mean, I really fail to see how anyone can feel bad for Anya after she kills those frat guys. That was the break for me. I understood her perspective, as well as I could anyways, up until that point. Anyone with that capacity, regardless of how she felt afterwards, is bad news. Choosing to become a vengeance demon again, when she knew full well exactly what that entailed, has some serious problems. One could argue, I suppose, that it was Xander's actions that precipitated all the carnage Anya causes, but does that matter? If that's all it took for Anya to go on a murderous rampage, what does that say about her? And I suppose, by extension, what does that say about Xander, who fell for someone with that in her?

Rereading that, it's a bit back-and-forth, I recognize. But I suppose that reflects that I view it was a hard topic to analyze.

 

[white avenger]

I mean, I really fail to see how anyone can feel bad for Anya after she kills those frat guys.

Having an otherwise good, or formerly bad, now reformed, character doing bad things while in some way "under the influence" of another person or being is a common theme with Joss, from Xander and the hyena personality to Angel and Twilight. Anya was no less under the influence of D'Hofryn that Faith was under the influence of Wilkins, and I doubt that you would find very many people who think any less of those characters because of their temporary weakness. At least in Anya's case, she had the opportunity to "un-kill" the frat boys, thus redeeming herself much better than any of Whedon's other characters who suffered the same fate.

 

[Robb Stark]

Having an otherwise good, or formerly bad, now reformed, character doing bad things while in some way "under the influence" of another person or being is a common theme with Joss, from Xander and the hyena personality to Angel and Twilight. Anya was no less under the influence of D'Hofryn that Faith was under the influence of Wilkins, and I doubt that you would find very many people who think any less of those characters because of their temporary weakness. At least in Anya's case, she had the opportunity to "un-kill" the frat boys, thus redeeming herself much better than any of Whedon's other characters who suffered the same fate.

With Xander and Angel, it's, at the VERY least, murky. With Xander, I don't consider any of what occurred in "The Pack" to be his fault. With Angel, Twilight is very clearly in control of him for a good portion, at least, of S8.

Now, with Faith, there was no mind-control or influence. She was just weak. That's it. You can attribute her actions to all the stuff she went through, but when she starts murdering people, I don't care. That's on her, and her alone. I really did think less of her after that. I think she makes a really interesting comeback, and it's a great redemption story (one of the cleanest of either series, I thought), but it's always there for me, the things he did in S3 and S4. Anya is in the same vein. She goes on to do truly heroic things (and like Faith had done heroic deeds in earlier episodes), but she still had that ability, that willingness to murder horrendously. She decided to do it, just as Faith did.

And while I know it's very popular amongst most people on BB, I have never really found the argument of "well, so-and-so did worse!" to be a very persuasive defense. I mean, in the real world you don't get off for murder because someone else may have beaten the system.

 

[white avenger]

And while I know it's very popular amongst most people on BB, I have never really found the argument of "well, so-and-so did worse!" to be a very persuasive defense. I mean, in the real world you don't get off for murder because someone else may have beaten the system.

That wasn't as much a defense as it was just to point out that this is one of those themes that Joss keeps reusing. Whichever "so and so" you care to use as an example of their individual actions, the point isn't the degree of harm that they caused as much as that, once the perpetrator realizes and repents of them, the subject may not be totally forgotten, but it is forgiven by the other characters.

Anya and Faith most certainly were influenced, and could even seen as under the power of, people with powerful personalities and evil agendas, exactly like the followers of cult leaders in real life.

 

[brinkster130]

Seeing as how Xander was full of doubt and questioning the marriage makes it pretty clear he had no business going through with the wedding. The fact that he wasn't mature enough to talk to Anya (or even a friend) about his fears also makes it clear he wasn't emotionally ready to make that commitment. It was heartbreaking seeing how little that demon had to do to have Xander running for the hills; too bad he didn't have the decency to handle the whole situation better.

Ugghh, and then to make the whole thing worse, Xander has the nerves to suggest that they start dating again after he left her at the alter to explain to all their family and friends that she was being dumped.

 

[Robb Stark]

Anya and Faith most certainly were influenced, and could even seen as under the power of, people with powerful personalities and evil agendas, exactly like the followers of cult leaders in real life.

Does, or should, that matter though? Do we forgive the Manson family for the atrocities they committed? I don't see that perspective.

 

[The Bronze]

Xander was absolutely right not to marry Anya. The only question is what on earth was he thinking asking her in the first place? She kills and tortures people for entertainment for 1000+ years! She made the decision to sign up to that lifestyle while human after suffering a bit of rejection. What kind of place would we be living in if that was everyone's default coping mechanism? Everytime a relationship ends badly feel free to massacre as many people as you like to cheer yourself up. I suppose it would deal with the worlds over crowding issues fairly quickly.

Anyway regardless of what made him come to his senses or when it happened at least it did happen.

 

[white avenger]

Does, or should, that matter though? Do we forgive the Manson family for the atrocities they committed? I don't see that perspective.

Certainly not. But that's where fantasy differs from reality. In the Buffyverse, characters are forgiven for murder, attempted rape, trying to destroy the world, robbing a Swiss bank of Nazi war plunder, and just about every other crime imaginable, with nothing more than a fairly sincere, "Sorry. X made me do it. I'll try to do better in the future," and sometimes not even that much. But how can you apply real world justice to vengeance demons, werewolves, and vampires?

As I said, I'm not defending Anya specifically for what she did. I'm merely pointing out that Joss seems to come back to this crime and redemption theme rather frequently.

Also, though upon rereading my original post, I noticed that I hadn't expressed my point properly. What I meant was that Xander didn't deserve a wife, any wife, if he let himself be frightened away simply by a demon's lies about his future. A commitment to something as serious as marriage should be much stronger than that.

 

[Lyri]

But the whole point was that Xander and Anya had BOTH shown signs of being scared about getting married. It's what their song was about in OMWF, how fearful they were about marriage and wondering if it would change them and their relationship. They both had doubts, and I'll always hate the fact that those doubts weren't explored - instead, we got Xander being a dick and Anya as the poor girl who was left at the alter and chose to go back down the vengeance route.

I would have preferred that Anya's own doubts be brought to light, instead of never being mentioned again.

Xander was wrong in what he did, leaving Anya at the alter and humiliating them both in front of all their friends and family, but he wasn't wrong about not marrying her, and I can't think why anyone would think that he was.

Xander might have been tricked by the demon and the visions he was shown, but he wouldn't have been if those doubts hadn't been already there. Getting married while those doubts were there would have been the worst thing Xander could have done. I'm not saying that Xander would have ended up as a violent husband, but I DO think that their marriage wouldn't have lasted and they would have ended up hating and resenting each other, and Xander still would have been the bad guy, because he went ahead with the wedding when he wasn't ready and didn't want to get married.

 

[kittenpoker]

To the original question. Xander was wrong to propose to Anya. He did, as she pointed out at the time, absolutely do it out of fear. She was freaking out and he proposed to calm her down. He didn't fully believe they would survive. If he truly did, I don't believe he would have asked her to marry him.

In the end though, I suppose he should have been honest with her (and with himself!!!) before the actual day of the wedding.


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[Lyri]

To the original question. Xander was wrong to propose to Anya. He did, as she pointed out at the time, absolutely do it out of fear. She was freaking out and he proposed to calm her down. He didn't fully believe they would survive. If he truly did, I don't believe he would have asked her to marry him.

I don't know if I believe that, because Xander had a ring, meaning that he'd planned it, and was thinking about it for a while. It wasn't a spare of the moment decision in the face the end of the world. I'm not saying Xander was right to propose, because I don't, but I do think he'd put some thought into it. Maybe he actually proposed at that particular moment out of fear, though, I could see that, but I honestly believe he was thinking about since at least 'Into The Woods' and his epic speech to her.

I think Xander proposed more out of the fact that he thought he SHOULD propose. He'd gotten the great job, he was becoming a successful man, I think he just thought 'okay, so I should have a wife now, and my successful life will be complete'. Not that I don't think he didn't love Anya, because I do, but I think that he just wasn't ready. He was 21/22 years old, and Anya was barely more than that, emotionally speaking, and the fact that he still wanted to date Anya after 'Hell's Bells' proves that he just wasn't mature enough.

 

[kittenpoker]

I think Xander proposed more out of the fact that he thought he SHOULD propose. He'd gotten the great job, he was becoming a successful man, I think he just thought 'okay, so I should have a wife now, and my successful life will be complete'. Not that I don't think he didn't love Anya, because I do, but I think that he just wasn't ready. He was 21/22 years old, and Anya was barely more than that, emotionally speaking, and the fact that he still wanted to date Anya after 'Hell's Bells' proves that he just wasn't mature enough.

I agree with this and good point about the ring.

Xander, at that point in his life, was very much a man child. Particularly when it came to relationships. So, again, I wish he had done more introspection before proposing.




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[bentjazz]

Xander and Anya were made for one another. I wanted to jump off the nearest bridge when Xander and Anya didn't get married. But you know what, I really do believe that Xander and Anya were heading for a reconciliation in season 7. It was clear as day, in my opinion. It's obvious to me that they still loved each other, as evidenced by their nookie sessions in season 7, particularly the nookie session on the kitchen floor. That nookie session told me that their momentum was in swing, once again. Above and beyond that, their chemistry, both physical and emotional, never really dissipated even after the wedding debacle.
I also loved the Xander/Cordelia arc. Man, what a great couple.
As an aside, Xander seems to be pretty darn lucky. Cordelia AND Anya. Cheese and crackers, man. Rod Stewart was right, some guys do have all the luck.....

 

[LindsayH]

Xander and Anya were made for one another. I wanted to jump off the nearest bridge when Xander and Anya didn't get married. But you know what, I really do believe that Xander and Anya were heading for a reconciliation in season 7. It was clear as day, in my opinion. It's obvious to me that they still loved each other, as evidenced by their nookie sessions in season 7, particularly the nookie session on the kitchen floor. That nookie session told me that their momentum was in swing, once again. Above and beyond that, their chemistry, both physical and emotional, never really dissipated even after the wedding debacle.
I also loved the Xander/Cordelia arc. Man, what a great couple.
As an aside, Xander seems to be pretty darn lucky. Cordelia AND Anya. Cheese and crackers, man. Rod Stewart was right, some guys do have all the luck.....

Loved Cordelia and Xander together also.

I agree that they were heading for a reconciliation in season 7, but I'm happy they didn't get married the first time around. The timing just wasn't right. That was more than clear way before the wedding day even came along.

On another note, does anyone else dislike the Xander/Anya wedding episode? Or was that just me? I didn't really like the way it was played out...

 

[Buffy Summers]

I hate that episode lol!

 

[BananaBuffy]

There are many different facets to this answer, frankly. I don't think Xander was wrong. I seem to remember back in the day writing a rather lengthy post that I won't search for. Basically, I talked about Xander's decision to leave Anya. There are so many reasons that I believe he did so. I believe that the reason Xander proposed to Anya was because he really did love her, and that's just what Xander does. He is the guy who jumps in without thinking. Sometimes it's a good thing and sometimes it's not. For example, it was great when he jumped right in and managed to save the world from an evil Willow. However, it was not so great whenever he managed to jump into a fight and get himself hurt. But Xander was always moving, never thinking and sometimes I think he was the bravest Scooby.

However, it was in this proposal decision where I think Xander could have thought a little more. Instead he decided that he loved this girl so he just jumped right in. Once he did more thinking about it - unfortunately he waited until the wedding day to do so - he realized how afraid he was. What I am saying is that, for Xander, it was the best thing at the time. He wasn't ready. It was likely he wouldn't be ready for a while. And while Anya might be ready, he didn't want to risk hurting her in the ride that he believed may go downhill in the future.

Xander grew up with terrible examples of marriage. There was his parents whom we are led to believe fight all the time and clearly have clouded his outlook. He has seen Buffy's parents who separated and then, by season six, Hank Summers had lost all contact with his children. He had seen Willow's parents, who although together, don't seem like the best role models for love. Never has Xander really seen love in the form of marriage and it was likely that this clouded his decision. Until he saw love, real love that could work as a foundation for the future, in adulthood, it was unlikely he would be ready to commit himself. Xander is a great guy, and he wouldn't want to hurt Anya with the fact that he wasn't ready. Or he wasn't ready to risk the prospect of hurting Anya. Either way, the decision may not have been the right one for her, but at the time it was for Xander.

 

[Spikefan31]

I really wish they had gotten married. Was it really too much to ask for ONE relationship to work out? Couldn't ONE couple be happy? Apparently not. 😀

That said, I think I prefer Xander and Cordelia's relationship, mainly because the more I watch the more I realise how much Anya's character regressed, which somewhat irritates me.

 

[thetopher]

I thought the whole marriage sub-plot was dull and unfunny, but I felt bad for Anya when Xander left her- dick move.
But Anya going back into the vengeance trade, after one bad (yes, heartbreaking, but still) day? So she clearly learned nothing from her time as a human then.
But I guess thousand year old habits die hard. Y'know people talk about the bad things that Angel, Spike and Faith have done, and how they did evil, bad things. They've got nothing on Anya. From 'The Wish' to 'The Prom' right through Season 4 she was obviously delighted by all the suffering she caused as she tells Xander stories of her past. She''s killed and maimed thousands and never really gets compared with those other three, cause it all happens mostly off screen. 🙄

Xander never really should've proposed at all.