Wealthy nations should stop eating beef

[DeadlyDuo]

Good luck with that.😏 I can't see how it will work. Wages are low and the work force mostly in urban centres. You can't move to rural spots because property's more expensive. Are enough Brits prepared to live on site in temporary accommodation for a seasonal job like the East Europeans were? I'm not scoring political points - just asking a question.

I believe the wanting workers to live on site is what was causing issues. Brits were up for doing the fruit picking/harvesting but when the farmers wanted people to live on site rather than commute in everyday, people were put off because they had families and so living on site was not suitable for their circumstances.

@Dora Humans certainly contribute. When the whole world went into Lockdown, including China and India who are two of the world's biggest polluters, air quality actually improved in those countries because there wasn't so much smog. In India, people were amazed that they could actually see the Himalayas from their house which they'd never seen before. If both China and India went significantly "green", it would make a massive difference.

 

[nightshade]

I believe the wanting workers to live on site is what was causing issues. Brits were up for doing the fruit picking/harvesting but when the farmers wanted people to live on site rather than commute in everyday, people were put off because they had families and so living on site was not suitable for their circumstances.

That's not true, I have three of those farms around here, and not all the workers live there, they will as soon as they arrive but if their families join them then usually they will rent in town, and the farmers have no issues with them not living on site. Those who do live on site do have mini buses into town for shopping or an on site shop. It's only really the single people that stay on site, or those that are only there for one season.

 

[Hunga Munga]

We successfully picked our food before New European labour started coming over , we'll manage fine . We might still need a few butchers ; until we can train our own again .

It's not like we don't have our own itinerant traveller communities and urban poor that used to do the work .

With climate change as our guide , we can strip out all the pointless waste in UK society . I bet you there's 30 000 folk doing short prison sentences for Cannabis offenses right now . Maybe they should be doing seasonal community sentences in the fields for minor crimes ? We got homeless people , thousands of em . Many would love 6 weeks of board and a grand in their pocket at the end of it . Same-same for folk on benefits . Yet if they go on a working holiday to pick strawberries , they're commiting fraud ?

We can deal with our emissions targets no bother , but not if we tie one arm behind our backs all the time , with our cultural hangups and taboos .

 

[Ethan Reigns]

I think climate change is happening , but the most is natural and humans are overtaxed because of it
Both North and south poles are on the move , The North pole is moving up to 30 miles a year at a increasing rate since 2000 , since the 1960 it has moved from above Canada to above Russia , every 150,000 years the poles have change places,
The magnetic force is what keeps the Solar winds at bay , if not we would be a stripped planet like the rest in the solar system , as the poles move so does the solar winds which effects the Jet Streams which effects the winds on the planet
The planet was 2 degrees C hotter in the middle ages than today , growing vines in Yorkshire etc the seas were higher , but Russia tundra was not melting as today , its melting because warmer air is blowing over them , not planet temperature increasing , remember its no longer global warming but climate change
The cold water is pouring into the sea , sinking to the bottom is releasing 270 ,000 cubic tons of CO2 annually into the atmosphere against man's 38 000 , not saying that we are not causing problems , but how many brits / yanks are willing to give up flying etc ? planes pumping countless out tons of pollution into the atmosphere , but no country will ban flying it would be financial suicide
Killing all the animals because they use oxygen and flatulate then cultivating the ground is not going to help ! while they allow trees and forest the world over to be destroyed and the worlds Human population to grow unchecked

I'm glad someone else recognizes the real danger of the shift of the magnetic poles. A section of Brazil and the Atlantic ocean to the east of Brazil is already changing to a north pole and hopefully this change will take place without the loss of the magnetic field. Total collapse of the magnetic poles has happened before as is shown on either side of the mid-Atlantic ridge and tectonic divide. The rate of movement of the divide is known and there is a patch of mutated flora that is 5000 years wide. The pole shifts are shown by the direction of magnetization of iron-bearing rock and it changes direction on either side of the mutated plants. Meanwhile, the poles are getting weaker and the movement is accelerating beyond the one football field per day rate. It used to be said that every compass points to Canada. That isn't true anymore - every compass points to Russia now.

 

[TriBel]

Agriculture in the United Kingdom uses 69% of the country's land area, employs 1.5% of its workforce (476,000 people) and contributes 0.6% of its gross value added (£9.9 billion).[1] The UK produces less than 60% of the food it consumes. Agricultural activity occurs in most rural locations, it is concentrated in East Anglia (for crops) and the South West (livestock). There are 212,000 farm holdings, which vary widely in size. WIKI.

I bet you there's 30 000 folk doing short prison sentences for Cannabis offenses right now . Maybe they should be doing seasonal community sentences in the fields for minor crimes ?

Okay but where do you presume these people originate from? Do they travel (eg) from Manchester to Norwich on a daily basis? It's an 8 hour round trip. Are they living on site? How do families visit? Our justice system is (allegedly) based on rehabilitation not hard labour. Does Norwich want to be home to petty thieves and drug offenders. That aside, I'm taking your bet: "On March 31, 2019, there were 682 people imprisoned in England and Wales for cannabis offences, in which the cannabis offence was the main offence". Okay...so one field catered for! 😄

Arable farming isn't that common in the north. Here it's mostly cows/dairy on lowlands and sheep on the hills. (Honestly if I type in "Farms near Manchester" I get Petting Zoos and Cannabis). Just checked...78% of farms in NW are dairy/grazing (22% growing cannabis then 😄). You'd need to transport people out. On the plus side, I bet there'd be a queue for the cannabis farms!

We got homeless people , thousands of em .

280,000 is Shelter's estimate but this might include people in hostels and temporary housing (some of whom will be single parents with small children). They won't leave home because of losing that accommodation. The figure could include people who are sofa surfing and might already do casual work. Some rough sleepers (and I'm not judging, just saying) can have severe mental health/abuse problems (trust me on this). TBH, if some of the homeless in Manchester (where there's a big Spice problem) are anything to go by you're talking 2 carrots an hour max. Seriously, they're either comatose on the pavement or upright like statues. It's heart-breaking to see (unless you're taking pictures of them for your face-book page, in which case, they're a laugh). You'd need drug workers on site and access to mental health support. And what happens when the season's over? Do you dump them back in the city?

Same-same for folk on benefits .

Depends. You've mentioned urban poor - so you have the same transportation issue. Some people on benefits have kids or are carers or need carers. Others - depending on whether they're long term sick - can get more than 1000 a month. Plus, the benefits system isn't geared up for it. There are waiting times before you make a new claim etc. plus other benefits are attached to claiming benefit...such as Housing benefit, free school meals etc. The best you could hope for is youngish people on unemployment.

It's not like we don't have our own itinerant traveller communities and urban poor that used to do the work .
[/QUOTE]
"Used to" is the operative word. Honestly, the only member of the travelling community I know runs a carpet fitting business and drives a Merc. 😄

I just don't think it's as easy as suggested.

 

[Hunga Munga]

The make up of the prison population must have changed drastically since I was away . I was at one jail where it seemed everyone was in for half a key of dope(including me ) . 😛

However , what you're doing is pointing out the very things that need changing . Benefits should be encouraging taking on extra casual work, not making criminals out of people who do .

Why do we leave the junkies on the streets messing things up , yet we lock up their dealers who are quietly earning real money for the economy ? Surely , they got that the wrong way round ? 😛 Seems like we put stones round our neck and then wonder why we don't float .

Nothing I've suggested is any more ludicrous than leaving a million Brits sitting on their arses doing nowt , while we import other nations gypsies and rural paupers to do the work .

 

[nightshade]

Live in the country and picked fruit , potato's etc worked in nursery's from the age of 12 weekends ,holiday's and evenings , loads of work around we always picked our own fruit why not now

I think this is slowly coming back, people are, at least here, wanting to go pick their own. Especially in the summer, when it's strawberries and other soft fruits.
I think the schools, especially primary, need to get more involved in it. I remember a few years back there was campaigns to get schools to grow their own veg, I wonder if that got continued or if it even happened.

 

[Hunga Munga]

Yeah , I'd definitely agree with a renewed school focus on practical skills ,especially horticulture . We go to a lot of effort and space for 'sport' for kids who don't want to play sports . Teach them a physical skill instead ?

I think it's deeper that that though . I don't want to belabour the point , but , with climate change as our guide , we could, probably should, change schooling forever . Perhaps longer summer terms and more winter holidays to save on heating ? Perhaps a switch to temporary prefab structures for school buildings ? More online interaction and a shorter week ? The option of a distance learning education to make the family workforce less rooted ? Mobilizing the kids as a community workforce as part of their education ?

None of these suggestions are new . People have been talking about reform, even deschooling society for a long time . The need for environmental budgeting just makes the ideas a bit more practical to explore .

I've mentioned before that most my friends are goddamn hippies of some description . 😛 Many are travellers . So I know a lot of pre-internet grown ups who never saw inside a school building . Many went vocational as adults , did a year of 'conversion' to polish their literacy and numeracy , trained in their fields and now have careers , own houses and are parents themselves . From the outside looking in , that looks like a dream ticket in comparison to my experience of fulltime schooling .

 

[nightshade]

It seems like most primary schools now do hot school meals, whereas it was packed lunch when I went. Those hot meals can easily be beef free, high veggie meals. I know there was a lot of talk about school meals aka Jamie Oliver a few years back, and chips got relegated to once a week compared to every day like I had, so surely the next step is just to take beef off the menu.

 

[Hunga Munga]

I am loving the new UK focus on poor child nutrition bought about by campaigning footballer , Marcus Rashford . I hope something lasting comes out of that .

Using small producers to supply local schools is something I know they've trialed in the past .

I have a pretty low opinion of the primary and secondary education I received . Just about everything I remember from class was later debunked on Qi 😀 . The food was pretty good though 😛 . I'd rather we focus more on the long-term health of the kids . That's one investment we know will pay off .

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Whatever happened to the thread that rich countries should stop eating beef?
The farmer who lives in the property next to me keeps cows that produce calves each year so he sells them to make money, even though his farm only produces 40 or 50 calves per year he also breeds sheep for meat not wool.
He plants a couple of fields for wheat etc: that he uses to feed the cows for a year or so, depending on how much rain we get. He is helping the beef industry to keep going.