Week 1: 8.01-8.04 "The Long Way Home Parts 1-4"

Buffy Summers

Yataro
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Part 1

Since the destruction of the Hellmouth, the Slayers--newly legion--have gotten organized and are kicking some serious undead butt. But not everything's fun and firearms, as an old enemy reappears and Dawn experiences some serious growing pains . . .

Source: Dark Horse

Part 2


The destruction of Buffy's hometown, plus covert and powerful slayer "cells" around the world, add up to a new label for the Scoobies: Terrorist threat. Speaking of Sunnydale, the crater formerly known as, has opened to reveal the witch Amy, and boy is she pissed. Now: Giles, smoochies, a knife to the heart, and a big sleep. Season Eight continues.

Source: http://www.popcultureshock.com/index.php?p=41349

Part 3
With Buffy incapacitated, Amy the witch has taken the opportunity to - get this - lay siege with an army of the undead. Willow takes her on in a witches' battle royal as hundreds of Slayers defend their Scottish citadel, but without the kiss of true love, Buffy will be out of commission indefinitely-with an unwelcome familiar face, and an image you won't soon forget.

Source: Dark Horse

Part 4

Buffy's back in action, thanks to a kiss of true love, but Willow's another story entirely-their capture of Amy the witch opened up a magical trap door, and now the Wiccan is in the belly of the beast. To make matters worse, she's at the mercy of someone truly bent on revenge, and he's been waiting for this for a long time. The conclusion to Season Eight's first arc.

Source: Dark Horse


Okay, let's kick things off. What did y'all think? Did anything jump out at you you wanted to discuss from these issues?
 
VisionGirl
VisionGirl
Hey Darla, are you going to comment on these issues- I'd love to hear your thoughts! :)
So first off, what's our policy regarding spoilers in this thread? Most of us have read season 8 before so I'm sure we'll have plenty of "oh yeah, that relates to that" moments. I'll go ahead and hide any future spoilers for the moment unless we say it's unnecessary.

My unorganized, stream-of-consciousness thoughts:
-Even after reading all 4 issues, I'm still confused about the men & demons in the castle from the first "scene". So, the men were Twilight's agents and planned to get held hostage by these demons in order to lure Buffy & the Slayers? If so, that seems kind of lame & obvious, plus it didn't work. What was Twilight's motivation here?
-I have to say how much I like seeing Xander in action, in a leadership role. He really shines in season 8, starting from the beginning.
-The Sunnydale crater cracks me up, I don't know why. 🙂 "I mean for the love of God, look what she did to her hometown."
-I really dislike Buffy & Dawn in conflict. It makes me really sad. As far as blood family, they're all they have left. Although "Your butt looks big in those giant pants" is hilarious.
-"I think it's a beautiful sunset". Dunh-dunh-duh...foreshadowing.
-One of the things I really like about the comic medium is getting to read Buffy's thoughts. We have some insights into Buffy's mind & thinking in the show, but we really get to hear almost every thought here. The things she misses makes so much sense, but again is sad to hear how much their lives have changed & how even further from "a normal life" she has come. It's in such contrast to the possibilities of the last scene in Chosen. These are the consequences of the choices she has made.
-"She wants a lot of cheese" heh-heh
-"Exponentially prefixy" LOL
-Where is Giles at the beginning of part II? From the buildings it looks somewhere eastern/middle eastern.
-I love Andrew! He is really in his element here, getting to pontificate on all things geeky (Lando Calrissian's outfit LOL!). Simone is trouble from the start, and Andrew ignores it. "No Slayer carries a gun. Ever. End of talk, good talk". No wonder
he feels so much guilt & responsibility later on as a result of her actions
.
-Dawn's abandonment issues have abandonment issues- sums it up about right!
-Bander-
not the last time we will see this in season 8, I think it relates right back to "And sex. Great muppety Odin, I miss that sex." He's one of the sole males among all these girls, plus they have history & friendship, and she grows to rely on him even more in this season. I mean, she calls him "her watcher" from the first page. It's natural that she would have sexual fantasties about him, but I don't think it means that she's truly in love with him.
-Again, something else we get to more fully experience in season 8: the dreamspace. Ethan says it's "wishes, anxieties, collective slayer memory & prophecies". Of course the Bangel/Spangel in me adores that Buffy/Angel/Spike panel! Not subtle imagery lol! Ethan rocks in here, too bad they killed him off. 🙁
-Another clue to the "Is Andrew gay" question: "You'd be bored stiff" among a roomfull of half-naked girls. Yeah, definitely gay. Did you notice the one girl reading Fray?
-Warren is gross. That is all.
-I don't think the general knows Buffy all that well: "The demon in you will say just one thing: slay". Been there, done that. Death is her gift, but she's not just a killer, she's also full of love. All the other Slayers though, that's the wild card.
We'll see that they're not all up to the task, nor do they all have pure motives. Some simply can't deal (as we've already seen in ATS s5, Damage).

Favorite quote: "Fe, Fi, Fo, F-ing Fum!"

Did you guys notice that the covers for these 4 issues all feature each of our new "core four": Buffy, Xander, Willow, Dawn.
 
-Even after reading all 4 issues, I'm still confused about the men & demons in the castle from the first "scene". So, the men were Twilight's agents and planned to get held hostage by these demons in order to lure Buffy & the Slayers? If so, that seems kind of lame & obvious, plus it didn't work. What was Twilight's motivation here?

Those demons were in a truce with humankind, and Twilight's followers not only violated that truce by attacking the demons, but sealed themselves in with a force field so a slaughter would be the only possible outcome.

I think this was Twilight's way of introducing himself to Buffy, get her thinking about the symbol, and maybe conveying the message that "I'm willing to sacrifice my own people without a second thought... are you?"

-The Sunnydale crater cracks me up, I don't know why. 🙂 "I mean for the love of God, look what she did to her hometown."

And the thing is, Gen. Voll, the government, the Twilight group, etc., all know what happened there and why Buffy did it, and that the city was deserted at the time. It's exactly what they would have done if they'd been the ones called upon to stop the First Evil. Voll's problem isn't so much that it happened, but that it was done by someone not under the government's control.

The government/military man inside Voll sees Buffy as a threat because of the power she commands... it doesn't matter whether it's for good or evil, all that matters is that it's outside the law and outside government control.

The Twilight agent inside Voll is what leads him to move right to the genocide option, rather than trying to make contact with Buffy, find out what her agenda is, and see if the power of the Slayer Army might be better co-opted, controlled, and used rather than destroyed.

-I really dislike Buffy & Dawn in conflict. It makes me really sad. As far as blood family, they're all they have left. Although "Your butt looks big in those giant pants" is hilarious.

I think it's mostly frustration on Buffy's part... Dawn shows up 50 feet tall, needing to consume huge amounts of food and other resources, won't tell anyone how she got that way, and won't give Willow the info she needs to change her back.

Dawn is also feeling frustrated, embarrassed, and sorry for herself. Xander's suspicion that she made herself big on purpose, in order to be the center of attention, turned out to be wrong... but I think as time went on, Dawn came to like the fact that she was finally useful to the group rather than just being a damsel in distress again.

-Where is Giles at the beginning of part II? From the buildings it looks somewhere eastern/middle eastern.

Georges Jeanty said in a Q&A that this was St. Petersburg.

-Another clue to the "Is Andrew gay" question: "You'd be bored stiff" among a roomfull of half-naked girls. Yeah, definitely gay. Did you notice the one girl reading Fray?

"Bored stiff"... heh.

Some questions I had about this arc that never really got answered:

* What were Amy and Warren doing in Sunnydale when everybody else had taken off? Maybe Warren was still recovering and couldn't travel yet? But why couldn't Amy's magic simply have teleported them up to the surface?

* What was the purpose of the spell Amy put on Buffy... that she'd sleep until kissed by someone truly in love with her? As Xander says, Buffy had protective spells on her, so Amy might not have been able to just kill her... but why not kidnap her or something instead? Could it be that Twilight hoped he'd be the one to wake Buffy up? And why did Amy go to so much trouble to explain to Xander exactly how the spell could be broken?

* How did Willow know that someone in the castle was in love with Buffy?
 
I really enjoyed these first 4 issues. I like how they set up the action and where we are. I admit, I would have liked some information as to what happened in the time between season 7 and season 8 but, you know, it's probably not really necessary. I guess we are supposed to piece together what happened between seasons from the snippets given in season 5 of Angel and making our own logical assumptions to 'fill the gaps'. Still, some flashbacks might have been nice...

Just from the opening issue we can see that Buffy has changed the world, that she is no longer alone (1800 slayers working for her) and that she is the Boss (they call her ma'am). But later we see her sitting alone on the castle wall (how much do I love those panels!) and she really is still 'alone'.

"That part was Andrew's idea. He did the research on the guy, said it would be hilarious for some reason."

I love that little retcon - it compleately changes "The Girl in Question" in meaning. But I wonder - Who was the intended target of Andrew's hilarity? Was it both Spike and Angel? Was the decoy in place prior to "Damage" and Andrew's visit to LA and finding out that Spike was alive? Or was she placed afterwards??? (See this is why I wouldn't mind a little extra info...)

I really like the flirtation between Renee and Xander. I was really rooting for those kids...

And "Twilight" (are we going to be coy about who he is or can we say?) is there right from the beginning, manipulating others in order to manuipulate Buffy - I think that fact really gets bought home in the re-reading.

AndrewCrossett said:
How did Willow know that someone in the castle was in love with Buffy?

See this one has always bothered me too - she was away, and Buffy and Xander didn't know where she was and then she can just come in and 'sense' that someone in the room loved Buffy in the right way to satisfy the terms of the spell? I must admit that I find Willow's powers a bit too conveinient sometimes; What, can she read everyone's minds now? I thought that Buffy Xander and Willow could only use telepathy because they were such good friends - it seems too powerful if she could just read anyone's mind at will. And why has Amy got such a big vendetta against Buffy anyway?

I rememeber on first reading I was kind of surprised that Andrew had his own Slayer squad. I'm still not sure if I like it. I had a love/hate relationship with Andrew during season 8.

The whole "true Love's kiss" spell introduces the theme of 'fairytales' which often reoccurs throughout the entire season - I mean for starters we have our protagonisits living in a castle and now Buffy is literally Sleeping Beauty waiting for 'true love' to wake her. Xander's reaction - "Seriously?" - is, I think, sort of the preferred reading reaction that the writers want us to have; keep that in mind as the story progresses.

On my first read through, I thought Headless "My Love" guy was going to be Spike - now I can't help but notice that his coat is brown and his shirt is red but man, what a tease!! And i think that it was supposed to be a tease because otherwise why do the headless thing in the first place - they wanted us to think that it was going to be Spike.

I too enjoyed the SexDream panel 🙂 - all that symbolism is so funny.

These four issues were a really great start to the season.
 
PassionBecoming
PassionBecoming
I have the same thoughts on Willow's powers and the same question about Amy.
My Buffy, the character, thoughts on the first two issues. I'll complete the rest later.

Buffy talked about becoming an army in S7, and that becomes reality in S8. The world has changed, and Buffy must change – herself and how she fights – to survive. The change started since the first three potentials knocked on her door. She's struggled to take care of one sister in S6 as well as dealing with being a slayer, the responsibility grew in S7 as she became the big sister to twenty or more sisters, and now it grew even bigger. She's got five hundred slayers to train and take care of.

Good thing Buffy decided to share her responsibility instead of shouldering it all on her own. The slayers were divided into ten squads; each squad has an experienced leader. Not to mention that Buffy's squad is Xander's squad too, so she's also sharing her own squad with someone she trusts. That should make things easier, if the slayers weren't the target of the government and every evil force out there.

"The guys," her friends, assumed she was a target, and set up two other slayers to be her. I'm not sure putting a couple of girls in danger to save Buffy's life would be acceptable by Buffy before and I don't think it is acceptable now. She's got Andrew's squad protecting the decoy in Italy and I'm assuming Rona's squad is the one protecting the decoy underground.

Now why is Buffy running a squad? She's not sure. She doesn't know what the hell she's doing. There are young, impressionable girls who are willing to risk their lives saving the world and they're five hundred, someone needs to be their mentor, to train them and teach them about the responsibility of being a slayer. Buffy's army has got to be, well, an army. They're fighting monsters on a global scale now, not just one small town, so all the technology is a necessity.

There's also another problem. With the Summers' home gone, where can she house this big number of slayers. Being slayers, they're all targets, so they need to be safe. The best place that fits them all and keeps them safe is an abandoned castle in Scotland.

Buffy wasn't kidding when she said, "The thing about changing the world… once you do it the world is all different." Everything has changed. Completely changed. Buffy doesn't use medieval weapons anymore, the number of slayers she watches over is thrice more than her age, and has literally scarified her normal life. She's completely dedicated to the life of slaying, abandoning the human side of her. She's Buffy the Slayer, minus the girl. I can't help but quote Riley here, "I gotta have it all." Buffy Buffy is both the girl and the slayer. In the high school years, she was trying so hard to be the girl minus the slayer, and now in S8, she's doing the exact opposite.

With all these changes, though, some things remained the same: she still got her demons to slay and she still got her watcher to guide her. Her watcher now is Xander.

Because Buffy is busy training her slayers. She can't see how much Dawn needs her when she's surrounded by thirty or more slayers who need her more. Just like Giles, Buffy orders her slayers to fight together. She kicks her three best slayers' asses easily, "So. Three perfectly valid avenues of attack, good form – on three seasoned, well-trained corpses."

Buffy complimenting Satsu's hair style can either be read as attraction or just girls talk. Satsu is Buffy's favorite slayer, she's the teacher's pet, she gets compliments most of the time. I remember a hint of jealousy in Leah's tone in #4, I wish they showed more of that. It would have been interesting to see the slayers accusing Buffy of playing favorites when she picks Satsu to tag along and save Willow.

Back to Dawn, Xander tells Buffy about his theory, that Dawn, not on purpose, turned herself into a giant to gain Buffy's attention. Buffy, being Buffy, blames herself to the point of dreaming about her conversation with Xander. She's ridden with guilt but she's so tired. She's got a lot of responsibilities and no time for herself. It's been a long time since she did something she wanted.

And right now she wants Xander.

I'm assuming this is not Buffy's first dream about Xander judging from "I'll be gentle this time." She wants him but she's so afraid of breaking him. They're not equals. She can't bring down a house with him and guarantee that he'll still be alive. She kisses him so hard his head pops out of his body.

Buffy is pulled out of the window and starts falling down, she wishes she doesn't, and how can that happen? If she can fly. If she can fly, she won't fall down.
 
Those demons were in a truce with humankind, and Twilight's followers not only violated that truce by attacking the demons, but sealed themselves in with a force field so a slaughter would be the only possible outcome.
Ahh, thank you, that makes a lot of sense!

I think this was Twilight's way of introducing himself to Buffy, get her thinking about the symbol, and maybe conveying the message that "I'm willing to sacrifice my own people without a second thought... are you?"
Yes, I agree. The stakes seem incredibly high right out of the gate in season 8, usually the seasons ease into the Big Bads more. I think part of it's just Joss adapting Buffy to the comic medium (not that he's new to comics).


And the thing is, Gen. Voll, the government, the Twilight group, etc., all know what happened there and why Buffy did it, and that the city was deserted at the time. It's exactly what they would have done if they'd been the ones called upon to stop the First Evil. Voll's problem isn't so much that it happened, but that it was done by someone not under the government's control.

The government/military man inside Voll sees Buffy as a threat because of the power she commands... it doesn't matter whether it's for good or evil, all that matters is that it's outside the law and outside government control.
Yes, and that's typical criticism of government, but even moreso because the people with the power (Slayers) are women.

Georges Jeanty said in a Q&A that this was St. Petersburg.
Ooh, that's right I remember now! He's kind of all over the place in season 8, though, which confuses me. As in: he's in charge of this squad of Slayers, yet he has time to work with Faith, and somehow finds time to investigate Twilight.


* How did Willow know that someone in the castle was in love with Buffy?
It was my impression that Willow felt this was a pretty typical spell, easy to "read".

Just from the opening issue we can see that Buffy has changed the world, that she is no longer alone (1800 slayers working for her) and that she is the Boss (they call her ma'am). But later we see her sitting alone on the castle wall (how much do I love those panels!) and she really is still 'alone'.
More alone now with thousands of slayers around here than before with a handful of friends. 🙁

"That part was Andrew's idea. He did the research on the guy, said it would be hilarious for some reason."
I love that little retcon - it compleately changes "The Girl in Question" in meaning. But I wonder - Who was the intended target of Andrew's hilarity? Was it both Spike and Angel? Was the decoy in place prior to "Damage" and Andrew's visit to LA and finding out that Spike was alive? Or was she placed afterwards??? (See this is why I wouldn't mind a little extra info...)
I'm assuming that the decoy was put in place after Andrew sees Angel & Spike in Damage, but who knows?


I must admit that I find Willow's powers a bit too conveinient sometimes;
I think that's somewhat true of the show, and even moreso in season 8.

The whole "true Love's kiss" spell introduces the theme of 'fairytales' which often reoccurs throughout the entire season - I mean for starters we have our protagonisits living in a castle and now Buffy is literally Sleeping Beauty waiting for 'true love' to wake her. Xander's reaction - "Seriously?" - is, I think, sort of the preferred reading reaction that the writers want us to have; keep that in mind as the story progresses.
I love this angle! I'll keep watching for this as we read.
 
I must admit, it took me a while to get use to reading the comics. These are the first comic's I've ever read so the format took me a little while to get use to.

Anyways here are my thoughts:

I really liked seeing Xander acting as a watcher of sorts. I wasn't a fan of Xander S1-7 but I am starting to like him a bit more in S8. He seems to have grown into his role and is working well with Buffy and the others.

I wasn't surprised at all to find out that Giles is elsewhere working with other slayers now. His relationship with Buffy had changed so much in the recent years that I would have been surprised if they had stuck together after Sunnydale.

Where is Willow and what is she doing that Xander and Buffy, her two best friends can't find her or get in contact with her. Seems odd, especially with Dawn's situation. Although Buffy sure seemed happy to see here and they were all smiles and hugs so I guess her being away with no one knowing her whereabouts is normal now.

The dream space was interesting. I did not expect to see Ethan Rayne.

Why were Warren and Amy in Sunnydale? Some time is suppose to have past right? So why did they return there or have they been there the whole time? Plus, why does Amy hate Buffy so much? Am I forgetting something?


"That part was Andrew's idea. He did the research on the guy, said it would be hilarious for some reason."

I love that little retcon - it compleately changes "The Girl in Question" in meaning. But I wonder - Who was the intended target of Andrew's hilarity? Was it both Spike and Angel? Was the decoy in place prior to "Damage" and Andrew's visit to LA and finding out that Spike was alive? Or was she placed afterwards??? (See this is why I wouldn't mind a little extra info...)

I loved that part too! Andrew can be so funny. Its interesting that neither Angel or Spike realized that it wasn't Buffy they were watching dance, maybe they were too focused on one another. Spander! 😛
 
PassionBecoming
PassionBecoming
I wondered the same questions about Warren and Amy.
How did Willow know that someone in the castle was in love with Buffy?

Willow knows that someone is in love with Buffy but she doesn't know that it's Satsu. That's not how magic works. I think that Willow is simply in love with Buffy, smoochies and getting naked and naughty type of love. Buffy/Willow relationship in season 8 somewhat mirrors Buffy/Angel from season 1 and 2, up to the "I kill the person I love to save the world" in Time Of Your Life. Now to the purpose of Amy's spell. Buffy is not the real target of the spell, Willow is. It's meant to lure her to Scotland ( remember that Buffy is more important to Willow than Oz, Tara and Kennedy ever were... ) and capture her but there's more to it. At this point Willow's personal life is an utter mess, she has two girlfriends, one is a Slayer who is completely in love with her, the other is a snake daughter of mother earth demon, who wants to get rid of Buffy and stop Twilight, by the way. And Willow is in love with her best friend, who sidebar, still kinda hates her for tearing her out of heaven ( there never was a "I forgive you Will" ) and seems to be rather straight. Bummer. So, Amy casts a spell, Willow wakes Buffy with a kiss, drama ensues. Except Satsu happens and later on, sleeps with Buffy. Remember Willow when Xander slept with Faith? It's the same thing, oh look, those are the flying pieces of Willow's shattered heart covered in tasty jealousy slime.

As to Xander. Remember "Restless"? In Xander's dream Buffy calls him "brother". And he is just that to her, he is her best friend, brother, even a parental figure, in season 8 Xander sees Buffy as his sister. Buffy on the other hand starts to develop some feelings towards him because...hey, why wouldn't she? He's stood beside her all this years and unlike EVERY OTHER MAN IN HER LIFE EVER ( her father, Giles, Spike, Angel, Riley, Parker, Wood and so one... ) he has never, ever betrayed her ( plus, he's kinda hot in season 8... ) He lost Anya, he lost a part of his body and he didn't leave her. Xander is a seriously amazing guy, don't you think? So why is Buffy keeping her feelings to herself for most of the season? First of all, Xander is interested in Renee, secondly, she's afraid of screwing it up ( like every other relationship ever... ) and possibly loosing the last living person that actually gives a shit about her. Willow left, Dawn bombards her with invectives every time they talk and that's about it, Buffy doesn't have anybody else other than Xander.
 
I really liked seeing Xander acting as a watcher of sorts. I wasn't a fan of Xander S1-7 but I am starting to like him a bit more in S8. He seems to have grown into his role and is working well with Buffy and the others.

I love Xander in all seasons, but he's so awesome in S8. Here are my Xander thoughts in the first two issues:

Just like Buffy, Xander gave up normal life all together. Right now he's a squad leader, living in a castle in the middle of nowhere, away from normal folks and surrounded by supernatural people. He's literally the only normal human in the castle, but oddly enough, he's far more useful now than he ever was. And he knows it and feels it, which gives him a confidence he never had about himself before. A confidence he only had when he was in the construction site surrounded by equals who depend on him and look up to him.

I personally love when characters borrow lines from each other, like Xander's "Five by five," which makes them real human beings. Didn't you ever find yourself saying a phrase your best friend uses all the time? I know I did.

Xander, like Buffy, hates the formality. He hates being called Mister just like Buffy hates being called Ma'am. He rejects the title "Mister" and prefers to be called by name or something cool like "Sergeant Fury."

One of the interesting developments is how Buffy and Xander are viewing Andrew now. They never seemed to accept him at all in S7, and now he's a trusted equal, even though he has his flaws, but they seemed to accept him with his flaws as well.

Xander is now Buffy's eyes that guide her through the dark. Kinda like Giles used to be. Which is why she calls him her watcher, even though he rejects the title, twice.

Xander is also Buffy's only friend in Scotland, a friend who's not under her charge. She looks comfortable around him and at ease, wearing her normal clothes and eating a sandwich as they discuss the new symbol.

Xander shows concern over Dawn and Buffy tries to ignore his voice of reason. She just came back from a mission, so tired, there was no time to rest, and Dawn won't make it easy with her not cooperating. In a nutshell, Buffy has no time to take care of another person. Until Xander gently reminds her that she's her "sister".

Buffy can't find the time to be there for her sister, but Xander can. He listens to Dawn and defends Buffy, he's not taking sides and he's sympathetic to both girls. His scene with Dawn and Buffy show how much of a good listener he's becoming, not to mention how much he can read them both. Xander comes to the conclusion that Dawn wished to be a giant to gain Buffy's attention. And he's right. He doesn't have all the details, but from the way Dawn talks about Buffy, he realizes that Dawn seeks Buffy's attention and protection. When Buffy starts blaming herself, he stops her right away, noting that she does this all the time when it's not her fault.

Xander's ability to see is stronger because of the lack of conflict in his life. Things are going well for him, no problems at home, no girlfriend quarrels, no unrequited love, no confidence issues, nothing. He's so secured and content with his life that he can clearly see what's going on with Buffy and Dawn.

There's no question that Xander is far more confident now. And that he's a Tweety fan. Years ago, Xander thought a Tweety wristwatch was so unmanly compared to Owen's gold pocket watch and chain. Now he's marching into Buffy's room followed by slayers while wearing Tweety PJs. Old insecure Xander would have preferred being naked over being caught wearing that.

There are two ways to read Xander's hesitance to kiss Buffy:

1) He's so sure he doesn't have any romantic feelings for Buffy, which is why he asks if a friend kiss can work. He knows that kissing Buffy would be a moot point because he's completely moved on.

2) Or he's unsure about his feelings and is afraid that Buffy waking up due to his kiss would complicate things between them. Especially with a bunch of teenage girls around who would make a big fuzz about the unrequited love Mr. Harris has for Miss Summers. Xander tries to find ways around the kiss to avoid the heartache it'll bring if he still has feelings for Buffy. He was burned once, he can't go through that again.

Either way, I think Xander should have kissed her, just to save her, regardless of the consequences. I'm leaning toward the first reason because nothing Xander does all season shows that he's into Buffy and his conversation with Buffy later in #31 shows clearly that he's over her.


Its interesting that neither Angel or Spike realized that it wasn't Buffy they were watching dance, maybe they were too focused on one another. Spander! 😛

That would be Spangel, but yeah, Spander is way way way more interesting and cuter. 😉 *points at banner*
 
brinkster130
brinkster130
You are right, Xander does have a lot more confidence so far and it really shows. And yes, I meant Spangel but I must of had Spander on my mind :p
Tranquillity
Tranquillity
nice post :)
Hey Brinkster, this is your first time reading the comics, right? If that's true, then ladies & gents we need to make sure that we're using spoiler tags for references to anything that occurs after the issues we're discussing. This is not an edict from on high or anything LOL, just my opinion! 🙂

Where is Willow and what is she doing that Xander and Buffy, her two best friends can't find her or get in contact with her. Seems odd, especially with Dawn's situation. Although Buffy sure seemed happy to see here and they were all smiles and hugs so I guess her being away with no one knowing her whereabouts is normal now.
Well in ATS season 5 "Shells", Angel speaks to Giles on the phone (trying to get hold of Willow to help with Fred), & Giles says that Willow is on another "astral plane". I don't know what the timeframe of that is, but it makes sense that maybe she's in another dimension in order to help Kennedy. I dunno, I don't ever feel like we get the entire picture of those events, I hope they explore that more in season 9, but they may not
considering that Willow & Kennedy are broken up
.

Why were Warren and Amy in Sunnydale? Some time is suppose to have past right? So why did they return there or have they been there the whole time? Plus, why does Amy hate Buffy so much? Am I forgetting something?
I think they've been there the entire time, Voll says that he wonders how they survived, and what they ate, during the time after the town collapsed.


Willow knows that someone is in love with Buffy but she doesn't know that it's Satsu. That's not how magic works. I think that Willow is simply in love with Buffy, smoochies and getting naked and naughty type of love. Buffy/Willow relationship in season 8 somewhat mirrors Buffy/Angel from season 1 and 2, up to the "I kill the person I love to save the world" in Time Of Your Life. Now to the purpose of Amy's spell. Buffy is not the real target of the spell, Willow is. It's meant to lure her to Scotland ( remember that Buffy is more important to Willow than Oz, Tara and Kennedy ever were... ) and capture her but there's more to it. At this point Willow's personal life is an utter mess, she has two girlfriends, one is a Slayer who is completely in love with her, the other is a snake daughter of mother earth demon, who wants to get rid of Buffy and stop Twilight, by the way. And Willow is in love with her best friend, who sidebar, still kinda hates her for tearing her out of heaven ( there never was a "I forgive you Will" ) and seems to be rather straight. Bummer. So, Amy casts a spell, Willow wakes Buffy with a kiss, drama ensues. Except Satsu happens and later on, sleeps with Buffy. Remember Willow when Xander slept with Faith? It's the same thing, oh look, those are the flying pieces of Willow's shattered heart covered in tasty jealousy slime.
I know there are people who are into Buffy/Willow, but I don't buy it. I guess you can interpret these scenes that way, but I think it's a stretch. I don't think there's any evidence that Willow feels that way toward Buffy. Heck, I think there's more evidence that Faith is in love with Buffy, and I'm not a Fuffy shipper!

As to Xander. Remember "Restless"? In Xander's dream Buffy calls him "brother". And he is just that to her, he is her best friend, brother, even a parental figure, in season 8 Xander sees Buffy as his sister. Buffy on the other hand starts to develop some feelings towards him because...hey, why wouldn't she? He's stood beside her all this years and unlike EVERY OTHER MAN IN HER LIFE EVER ( her father, Giles, Spike, Angel, Riley, Parker, Wood and so one... ) he has never, ever betrayed her ( plus, he's kinda hot in season 8... ) He lost Anya, he lost a part of his body and he didn't leave her. Xander is a seriously amazing guy, don't you think? So why is Buffy keeping her feelings to herself for most of the season? First of all, Xander is interested in Renee, secondly, she's afraid of screwing it up ( like every other relationship ever... ) and possibly loosing the last living person that actually gives a shit about her. Willow left, Dawn bombards her with invectives every time they talk and that's about it, Buffy doesn't have anybody else other than Xander.
I don't think Buffy loves Xander in that way. I think she thinks she might, but I think it's more about loneliness and the other things you're mentioning: that he's reliable, that they're kind of alone together.

I personally love when characters borrow lines from each other, like Xander's "Five by five," which makes them real human beings. Didn't you ever find yourself saying a phrase your best friend uses all the time? I know I did.
I loved that too!

One of the interesting developments is how Buffy and Xander are viewing Andrew now. They never seemed to accept him at all in S7, and now he's a trusted equal, even though he has his flaws, but they seemed to accept him with his flaws as well.
Yeah, I think that's definitely begun in ATS season 5, although I suppose Angel and Spike could've thought it an affront that Andrew came rather than Giles. Regardless, with all these new Slayers, somebody had to train them, and Andrew did show some aptitude toward the knowledge bit.

There are two ways to read Xander's hesitance to kiss Buffy:

1) He's so sure he doesn't have any romantic feelings for Buffy, which is why he asks if a friend kiss can work. He knows that kissing Buffy would be a moot point because he's completely moved on.

2) Or he's unsure about his feelings and is afraid that Buffy waking up due to his kiss would complicate things between them. Especially with a bunch of teenage girls around who would make a big fuzz about the unrequited love Mr. Harris has for Miss Summers. Xander tries to find ways around the kiss to avoid the heartache it'll bring if he still has feelings for Buffy. He was burned once, he can't go through that again.

Either way, I think Xander should have kissed her, just to save her, regardless of the consequences. I'm leaning toward the first reason because nothing Xander does all season shows that he's into Buffy and his conversation with Buffy later in #31 shows clearly that he's over her.
ITA with you, I think it's #2, we see that confirmed later in the season. I don't think Xander should've kissed her, because I don't think it would've broken the spell.

That would be Spangel, but yeah, Spander is way way way more interesting and cuter. 😉 *points at banner*
Look at Brinkster's banner!! Spangel FTW!! 😀
 
Hey Brinkster, this is your first time reading the comics, right? If that's true, then ladies & gents we need to make sure that we're using spoiler tags for references to anything that occurs after the issues we're discussing. This is not an edict from on high or anything LOL, just my opinion! 🙂

If that's true, it's gonna be so awesome. Reading Brinkster's reaction to a lot of S8 events would be interesting. 😀

ITA with you, I think it's #2, we see that confirmed later in the season. I don't think Xander should've kissed her, because I don't think it would've broken the spell.

I think Xander completely moved on, but he should have kissed her. Just to save her. Complicated feelings would be dealt with later. Buffy's safety is more important.

Look at Brinkster's banner!! Spangel FTW!! 😀

I looked. There's no Xander in it. 🙁 I'm mostly into pairings with Xander in them. 😀
 
VisionGirl
VisionGirl
I know, I know, just making fun- comparing Spander to Spangel. I'm a big Angel fan, so you know which one I like better. ;)
Guys, let's remember that we're only discussing THESE issues - don't spoil the people for whom this is the first time reading. If you need to say something from a later issue, please use the spoiler tags: [spoiler ][/spoiler]
 
Hey Brinkster, this is your first time reading the comics, right? If that's true, then ladies & gents we need to make sure that we're using spoiler tags for references to anything that occurs after the issues we're discussing. This is not an edict from on high or anything LOL, just my opinion! 🙂

You got it right VG, it is pretty much my first time reading them. I've read the first two TPB's and have heard a few spoilers, but I don't know any of the details. Spoiler tags would be nice, but not too big of a deal if people don't want too use them or forget. 🙂


Well in ATS season 5 "Shells", Angel speaks to Giles on the phone (trying to get hold of Willow to help with Fred), & Giles says that Willow is on another "astral plane". I don't know what the timeframe of that is, but it makes sense that maybe she's in another dimension in order to help Kennedy. I dunno, I don't ever feel like we get the entire picture of those events, I hope they explore that more in season 9, but they may not
considering that Willow & Kennedy are broken up
.

Ahh, thats right. I forgot about that conversation Angel had with Giles about Willow and getting in contact with her.


I think they've been there the entire time, Voll says that he wonders how they survived, and what they ate, during the time after the town collapsed.

Yeah, it will be interesting to see if they address this more. It seemed like Amy was down underneath Sunnydale lurking when the Military found her and Warren (or rather they found the Military down below).

Look at Brinkster's banner!! Spangel FTW!! 😀
😉 😛
 
I know there are people who are into Buffy/Willow, but I don't buy it. I guess you can interpret these scenes that way, but I think it's a stretch. I don't think there's any evidence that Willow feels that way toward Buffy.

I agree - I don't get a luurvy vibe from Buffy and Willow. I think they have a very strong frindship but I don't think that there's any desire to jump each others bones or anything like that.
 
brinkster130
brinkster130
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PassionBecoming
PassionBecoming
[No message]
I know there are people who are into Buffy/Willow, but I don't buy it. I guess you can interpret these scenes that way, but I think it's a stretch. I don't think there's any evidence that Willow feels that way toward Buffy. Heck, I think there's more evidence that Faith is in love with Buffy, and I'm not a Fuffy shipper!
One of the cool things about season 8 is that it provides shipper material to just about every major shipment out there, anyway, I think that there's just way too many ambiguous and not so ambiguous lines and motifs that have been used before in a certain situations to ignore Willow/Buffy thing in season 8. I don't want this thread to turn into a naval battle so keep cool and brace yourselves, spoilers ahead.
We could have moved on. Raised Dawnie, moved somewhere nice...but I chose. I chose to put Tara in a bullet's path. I chose you over her. I can't do that again...to the woman I love.
And she did. Willow could have kept Aluwyn, stopped the death of magic ( leave Buffy in Fray future, betray her in "Last Gleaming 4" - compare Buffy's injuries from "ABH" and "TLG 4" ) but she chose Buffy...again. Magic is everything to Willow and it's still less important than Buffy. If that's not love.... And who exactly is "the woman I love"? It's definitely not Ken ( Willow admits in her one-shot that what she really wants is Tara not to mention cheating with the second girlfriend thing and the breakup, I kinda feel sorry for Ken... ) Still no desire, and then, in "WATG 2"...

What's she like in the sack? Do you know how long I've wondered about this? Don't hold out on me sister. Did she make that high-pitched squeal? I call it her "shoe-sale noise..."
Wait. Stop. Why and how and why does Willow know Buffy's um...sex sounds? Best friends? Well, I don't know about you, but I don't wonder about my best friends' sex lives, because they are, you know, friends.

And just so you know...I never wanted to sleep with you either. you're not even on my list.

and... and I never really liked you, anyway, and -- and you have stupid hair

Yeah. I wonder about your sex life just, you know, for science!

It seems that Buffy knows what's going on:
No, The Willow thing is...it's complicated
Then I'll take Satsu...I've been kind of meaning to talk to her. Just more complicated girl stuff.

Since "New Moon Rising" complicated is like a synonym for G.O.G.A.

There's more, Fray!Willow, "LG 5" dialogue and so on. I think that it's not that surprising, OK, Willow loves Buffy more than anything, friend/sister Philia love but she also likes hot chicks and Buffy happens to be a hot chick. It's similar to what happened between Will and Xander in season 3...or not, see: Fray!Willow.

I think that something is there and it's definitely less subtle than Willow/Tara thing up to "NMR". Either way, Peace.
 
VisionGirl
VisionGirl
Hmm, you've made some interesting points! I'll keep those in mind as we continue to read.
My Dawn thoughts:

Dawn was college girl for a while, living on her own, working on her future, until she screwed it all up and went back to Buffy. She can't let go of Buffy, she's not convinced she could be on her own, and the fact that Buffy is too busy with her new little sisters that she needs to be forced to talk to Dawn by Xander is hurting and frustrating Dawn even more. She's trying to hurt Buffy by insisting that she can only talk to Willow, by hinting that Willow taught her more than Buffy ever did, that Willow used to pay more attention to her –which shows in S7 as Willow used to be the person to take care of Dawn's injuries and be there when Dawn is scared. Buffy in S7 used to be busy with Spike and the potentials, completely and understandably neglecting Dawn, and she usually found the time to be there for Dawn when she's asleep.

Dawn attempting to guilt Buffy into working harder to notice her and be there for her backfires, as her attitude only drives Buffy away.

Apparently, everybody met Kenny except Giles who met him on the phone. So, Dawn and Kenny were serious and in a committed relationship for months.
As Dawn would reveal to Xander later, she wasn't ready to have sex and Kenny was patient. Dawn rewarded Kenny's patience and understanding with cheating on him with his roommate. She did that on purpose to make him snap and put her in danger. Because she wanted Buffy to save her.

I'm guessing that Buffy rarely contacted Dawn when she was in Berkeley, too busy to do so, and Buffy being Dawn's only blood family makes Dawn scared to lose her. She's not ready to step out of Buffy's shadow and be an adult. She still needed "mommy" to protect her.

Dawn thinks she still needs to be looked after by Buffy. Her insecurity grows bigger because her sister, the one Dawn screwed up her life so she could be with, doesn't spend time with her and wishes she was away in college. Dawn feels hurt thinking that Buffy can't stand the sight of her and considers her a burden. Buffy prefers hanging out with the other slayers over her sister.

The fact that Dawn's life turned upside down with her turning into a giant doesn't hurt her as much as the thought of Buffy avoiding her and being sick of her. She did all of this because she needed Buffy, but apparently Buffy doesn't have time for her.
 
BuffyElevated
BuffyElevated
[No message]
I have a question, maybe I just missed something.

Amy travels to Scotland somehow (magical, I assume) where she puts a spell on Buffy. How does she know where the Slayer HQ is, or does she manage to go there without knowing where it is (as we might talk to somebody on a telephone without knowing where she physically is located)?

Remember in Part 5, Predators and Prey, The Swell (issue 22), the "vampy cats" find out where the HQ is in a clever but not appetizing way. Apparently the location of the HQ is a closely guarded secret, not previously known to the Twilight forces.
 
brinkster130
brinkster130
Good question, I def. don't know the answer but maybe she was tracking Willow and followed her there?
[MENTION=10743]BuffyThoughts[/MENTION]

It makes perfect sense if you understand what's really going in season 8. Spoilers ahead.

Season 8 is not about a war between the Slayer organisation and Twilight, it's about a war between two realities, our world and the new Twilight universe ( which needs the Earth's Cosmic Egg aka The Seed of Life ) It's Buffy, Angel and their child versus the forces of Earth. According to the prophecy revealed in Riley one-shot the Twilight would have lost, the united forces of the our reality ( Uncle Sam, Saga Vasuki and Willow to some degree, Amy and Warren, pretty much everything that tried to kill Buffy in season 8... ) would have killed Buffy and Angel. So Angel gathered all the potential enemies and threw them at Buffy, one by one for her and her Slayers to annihilate. Like he says:

I put on a mask, talk about "master plans"...distract them. Keep the body count as low as I can while I push.

Vampy cats don't know the localisation of Slayer HQ because they don't need to, they are not meant to kill Buffy, they are just another power for the Slayers to get rid off, cannon fodder. Of course, Angel is possessed by his child ( Twilight - The Winged Lion ) because he is a cosmic moron and things get a bit more complicated later on.

[MENTION=7613]sosa lola[/MENTION]
She's not ready to step out of Buffy's shadow and be an adult. She still needed "mommy" to protect her.
I don't think that it's about being an adult at all. Adult or not, we need contact with our family members, it's natural and Buffy is Dawn's entire family ( she lost her parents, she lost her foster parents - Tara and Willow... ) Dawnie doesn't have anybody else and Buff fails to understand that. Instead of sending her to school somewhere in the UK, she sends her to Berkeley, Dawn can't visit her on weekends or whatever or introduce her new boyfriend and because of different time zones they can't even talk on the phone. Also, has Buffy lost her mind? She has two doubles because of security reasons and she sends Dawn to Berkeley without a body guard? Pissed off vampires and demons, new initiative, Glory followers, witches/warlocks who want to get their hands on the Key, everybody who wants to hurt Buffy...Dawn needs protection, a Slayer or at least an experienced witch to watch over her. It's not about being an Adult, it's about being the sister of Buffy Summers, Dawn's just a human, she doesn't stand a chance against mystical or demonic forces.
 
Regarding the location of the Slayer HQ:

Amy knew the location of the original Slayer HQ, which is how she was able to get there, the Army was able to open a portal to try and blow it up with a ray gun, and Amy and Warren were later able to shoot a missile at it. After it got destroyed by the missile, they moved to a different HQ which they kept more secret (with Willow's magic). It was the location of this second HQ that the Vampy Cats got from Satsu in "Swell."
 
Sounds like a better answer?

Regarding the location of the Slayer HQ:

Amy knew the location of the original Slayer HQ, which is how she was able to get there, the Army was able to open a portal to try and blow it up with a ray gun, and Amy and Warren were later able to shoot a missile at it. After it got destroyed by the missile, they moved to a different HQ which they kept more secret (with Willow's magic). It was the location of this second HQ that the Vampy Cats got from Satsu in "Swell."

That sounds like a better answer. Of course the Vampy Cats weren't meant to kill Buffy. Nobody was.

Amy must've learned the location from the Army. She must've been out of touch while she was buried in the rubble of Sunnydale.
 
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